Originally posted by 805gregg
Anyone here remember when there were conch in Baha Conception? I got one once when camped at Coyote, where did they go?
Yes, I remember them well, Gregg. They lined the sea bottom at one time, but naturally were over-harvested by ignorant
or uncaring commercial ...and yes, our local divers...gone now like the bay scallops and all the rock scallops, sea cukes, lobster, almost all
shrimp/fish, etc...wait till they find a market for sand!!
Some of those conch are still around...but they are just empty shells thrown in with the rest of your shell collections.
Now back in the day....
(Carumba!... I am getting to hate that expression...so many of Baja's wonders are now extinct and reverently referred to as.. 'Back in
the day'.)...
Rock scallops, nautalis, etc..all kinds of shells were everywhere.
I wish we had abs back then, too..not so.
...anyway... I used to make a hearty conch soup (or stew if I forgot to watch the pot)and only needed a couple for our dinner (2 people) In
1971, they were literally everywhere in the BOC (Bay of Conception).
Manuel Diaz of Rcho Coyote taught me How To Get The Conch Meat Out Of It's Shell...in a way that made the gals grimace, we would snag a peice of the
conch meat with a hook on a short length of fishing line and hang the conch from the veranda shade..and very, very slowly the meat would unwind from
the shell...maybe nasty to look at, but effective, easy, and it was The Baja Way.
Santa Barbara Cove was a particulary nice spot to dive for conch and the botejones(sp?).. large yellow clams..that I added to the soup/stews. Of
course you always picked up some chocolates and steamers, too. Fill your shopping list in one spot!
You found good use for the empty shells after the feast:
Directly across the Bay from mi casa was the very best sea bottom to find lots of conch...and the gals went crazy beachcombing. Crazy beautiful,
though..
Ah...I got to quit now, getting my blood pressure up way too high thinking about all we have lost in Baja.
Adios, it's time for poker at Ana's...y'know..Important Stuff.
Originally posted by Roberto
Skeet, take your preaching of MORALS, etc., and stick it where the sun don't shine.
Skeet-------
Personally, I am not a religious guy, but I, for one like your preaching MORALS, if for no other reason than to remind us that there really IS such a
thing as "morals", and we all NEED to remember that.
MERRY CHRISTMAS, Skeet----and Roberto too.
Barry
NO! We don't need reminding of an infantile interpretation of "Morals". We
are all adults here. If one is immoral, they bear that responsibility to society and eventually pay the consequences. We don't need no Texas
preachin'.
Originally posted by David K
Maybe ex-hippies living on welfair have time to hike for days and days? Not all of us have such disrespect for society to not work as much as we can.
dk: people from all walks of life are go on multi-day hikes in wilderness areas: poor people, rich people, employed, unemployed, retired, liberal,
conservative, atheist, religious, etc...
last year i took 6 weeks vacation. being disrespectful never felt so good!
barry,
so you say the creation of wilderness benefits few? i say the natural resource extraction usually benefits few. and the destructive ORV use benefits
few. you can't make decisions about preservation on basis of who uses it most. preservation of wilderness benefits us all, benefits the planet,
benefits the other critters on the planet.
the fact is: once land, flora and fauna are destroyed they cannot be returned to natural state. the few users locked out by wilderness designation
can go somewhere else to accomplish same activities. ecosystems cannot relocate their activities.
people are passionate about use of public lands. having seen so much land destroyed in my lifetime, i can NEVER fault people trying to save the last
few scraps of public land before destruction through extraction of over use or development. the world has a limited and finite amount of wilderness
left, i am all for saving ALL of it. if we slowly chip away at wilderness, some day there will be none left.
The scarcity and price of sand for aggregates went up so high in San Diego county that they were importing it from Baja
&Re: the conches
I remember after Julieta ,if you knew where to look there were 100's on some beaches . Not really that many but a few survive. I had two crates of
them in short order.
Other than that, regarding this thread,
I'm with capkw,
"you Kid's can b-tch...Me,,,Im going FISHING !!!! "
Originally posted by David K
Maybe ex-hippies living on welfair have time to hike for days and days? Not all of us have such disrespect for society to not work as much as we can.
dk: people from all walks of life are go on multi-day hikes in wilderness areas: poor people, rich people, employed, unemployed, retired, liberal,
conservative, atheist, religious, etc...
last year i took 6 weeks vacation. being disrespectful never felt so good!
Of ALL the cool replies I posted in this thread, you grabbed a small part of one I wrote 5 days ago to ask me about? Seriously?
Let's quote my full reply instead of just a portion of it... you know as a refresher after 5 days:
>>> "Another point is one that the Sierra Club and other leftist organizations never mention, and that is that we humans are a natural part
of this planet just as much as the sardines and turtles.
Yes, we can eat until a species is reduced to a point that we eat something else... but, Nature is so far stronger than man ever gives it credit for
and the animal will return if it is meant to be.
One thing for certain is change... If you live long enough, things are going to be changing before your eyes... Sardines will disappear... and perhaps
come back again more than before... The weather will seem warmer for a few years, then we will have the coldest years...
We have changed our habits and have performed differently than the past as far as limiting our take of certain species, eco-management if it proves to
benefit our ability to take from the sea on a regular basis. The co-ops of Bahia Asuncion, Abreojos, etc. seem to have it down as a science. Great!
The main point here is to have some faith in Planet Earth, not blame humans for everything, and just do the best you can at living your life."
<<<
Is it still "up in the air" now, with the rest of the post included?
My point (if still not clear) is that Nature (God, Mother Earth, or ???) is the normal and natural operation going on here on earth. Mankind can no
more change what Nature intends on the earth than Al Gore can admit he has lied to you about Global Warming...
Have a great day and a Merry Christmas!!!
And a Very Merry Christmas to you, too, David.
About your reply, what I don't see is any references to a literature list on what your opinion is based on. It is very difficult for a person without
studies to really know how interconnected the planet is and to begin to comprehend some of the effects of that interconnectivity. In your argument,
there was no connection between the almost-extinction of the whale and the overharvesting of those creatures. They just came back because nature so
mandated it. No way, David! Nature most definitely needs our assistance.
What differentiates the arguments between the two perspetives on the environment I see taking place on threads such as this is that the Left tends to
be based in science, while the opinions such as yours--the Right--tend to be based on personal observations that really have no bearing on the health
of the planet over the long term. Hence, science is a dirty, four-letter word to your side--ivory tower elitists and all that rubish.
For me, a good dose of science makes things quite clear: we are ruining our planet, but we still have the opportunity to correct things. But if we
continue to ignore all the warning signs (like you seem intent on doing), the day will come when it will be too late. And then, my friend, we shall
see just how much of a part of nature man really is. I think it was comedian George Carlin who use to say that man is but a flea on the world's back.
The world doesn't need us to survive, but we definitely need the world, wouldn't you say? Why do we insist trashing our home?
So, if you think Al Gore is such a loser, you must hold the opinions on global warming of Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman et. al. in high esteem. I rest
my case.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
Of ALL the cool replies I posted in this thread, you grabbed a small part of one I wrote 5 days ago to ask me about? Seriously?
Let's quote my full reply instead of just a portion of it... you know as a refresher after 5 days:
>>> "Another point is one that the Sierra Club and other leftist organizations never mention, and that is that we humans are a natural part
of this planet just as much as the sardines and turtles.
Yes, we can eat until a species is reduced to a point that we eat something else... but, Nature is so far stronger than man ever gives it credit for
and the animal will return if it is meant to be.
One thing for certain is change... If you live long enough, things are going to be changing before your eyes... Sardines will disappear... and perhaps
come back again more than before... The weather will seem warmer for a few years, then we will have the coldest years...
We have changed our habits and have performed differently than the past as far as limiting our take of certain species, eco-management if it proves to
benefit our ability to take from the sea on a regular basis. The co-ops of Bahia Asuncion, Abreojos, etc. seem to have it down as a science. Great!
The main point here is to have some faith in Planet Earth, not blame humans for everything, and just do the best you can at living your life."
<<<
Is it still "up in the air" now, with the rest of the post included?
My point (if still not clear) is that Nature (God, Mother Earth, or ???) is the normal and natural operation going on here on earth. Mankind can no
more change what Nature intends on the earth than Al Gore can admit he has lied to you about Global Warming...
Have a great day and a Merry Christmas!!!
And a Very Merry Christmas to you, too, David.
About your reply, what I don't see is any references to a literature list on what your opinion is based on. It is very difficult for a person without
studies to really know how interconnected the planet is and to begin to comprehend some of the effects of that interconnectivity. In your argument,
there was no connection between the almost-extinction of the whale and the overharvesting of those creatures. They just came back because nature so
mandated it. No way, David! Nature most definitely needs our assistance.
What differentiates the arguments between the two perspetives on the environment I see taking place on threads such as this is that the Left tends to
be based in science, while the opinions such as yours--the Right--tend to be based on personal observations that really have no bearing on the health
of the planet over the long term. Hence, science is a dirty, four-letter word to your side--ivory tower elitists and all that rubish.
For me, a good dose of science makes things quite clear: we are ruining our planet, but we still have the opportunity to correct things. But if we
continue to ignore all the warning signs (like you seem intent on doing), the day will come when it will be too late. And then, my friend, we shall
see just how much of a part of nature man really is. I think it was comedian George Carlin who use to say that man is but a flea on the world's back.
The world doesn't need us to survive, but we definitely need the world, wouldn't you say? Why do we insist trashing our home?
So, if you think Al Gore is such a loser, you must hold the opinions on global warming of Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman et. al. in high esteem. I rest
my case.
This from the online publication Nation of Change:
"The politicization of science—or, as Michael Mann calls it, the scientization of politics—is a familiar reality for Americans concerned about climate
change. Instead of focusing on how to address the problem, we've spent years debating whether there's scientific consensus that there is one (the
answer is yes). That's the result of a dedicated campaign by corporate interests to spread doubt and discredit scientists.
Michael Mann has more experience with the process than most. Mann is a climatologist, director of the Earth System Science Center at Penn State
University, and author of the books Dire Predictions: Understanding Global Warming and The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the
Front Lines. In this talk, he discusses how to approach climate science in a politicized world."
With all due respect...secular realists have a lot of ground to make-up. Those with whom we so generally disagree have had a long time to make their
belief and understanding clear.
This isn't at all about rational argument. In the end it is all about winning the argument through killing and flaying and boiling, and bashing, etc.
See: Christian History
"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine
Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God."
— Martin Luther
"Unbelief is the greatest of sins."
— Thomas Aquinas
"REASON is the Devil's greatest hoar; by nature and manner of being she is a noxious hoar; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed hoar; hoar eaten
by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and she
ought to be drowned in baptism... She would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in the house, to the closets."
— Martin Luther, Erlangen Edition v. 16, pp. 142-148
"Kill them all. God will select those who should go to heaven and those who should go to hell."
— Abbot Arnold de Citeaux, 1205 (Fourth Crusade)
"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put
out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God."
— Martin Luther
"There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is the disease of curiosity. It is this which drives us to try and
discover the secrets of nature, those secrets which are beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing and which man should not wish to learn."
— St. Augustine (354 - 430),
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
— St. Ignatius Loyola, 1491 – 1556
"A person is to be punished with a just penalty, who ... utters blasphemy, or gravely harms public morals, or rails at or excites hatred of or
contempt for religion or the Church."
— The Catholic Church's Canon Law 1369
"Kill them all, for God knows His own."
— Pope Innocent III, to his troops in the Albigensian Crusade of 1209
"I do further promise and declare, that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics,
Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do and to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth, and that I will spare neither
sex, age nor condition and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of
their women and crush their infants' heads against the wall, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race."
— Pope Paul III, 1576
In God We Trust, One Nation Under God, Merry CHRISTmas.
Back to the subject of ecology...what's the flippin' sense in killing a third of a billion CO2 eating, Oxygen producing, baby trees to stand them up
with a star on top and watch their corpses desiccate in the corner until January for the love of Jesus?
People DO make a difference to the environment, and superstitiously wasting beneficial life forms is very un-evolved.
I get a feel for it living near to I-5 in the mountains. The number of 80,000 pound diesel wasting 18-wheelers headed south loaded with dead baby
trees this month has, as usual, been staggering. And depressing.
Please buy live trees.
Or, there's always......night school?
Be happy you guys, and be careful. Mixing alcohol, virgin births and flying reindeer is a potent combination!
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
Man is only a bit player. When the wheel of time clicks over another cog, we'll all be gone, and Mother Earth will renew herself. I think it has
happened before.
As I set here watching the Snowfall I think of all the Birds and other Animals trying to keep Warm.
I think of the many Joys that I have had in my Lifetime. There are many, from mu Cjildhood, growing up days on that little Farm in Sweetwater,going to
Hi School in Amarillo. Going to War in Dorea, going to College in Fresno Calif.
I think about my discovery of the Sea of Cortez and the many Friends in Baja and all of the Wonderful Fish Experiences.
I think the good Lord for the Confidence he has given me to be a Successful Human Being, for the Love of my Children.
I wish each one of you who reads these words the best of Days to come and please live the life of Love and Kindness.
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
As I set here watching the Snowfall I think of all the Birds and other Animals trying to keep Warm.
I think of the many Joys that I have had in my Lifetime. There are many, from mu Cjildhood, growing up days on that little Farm in Sweetwater,going to
Hi School in Amarillo. Going to War in Dorea, going to College in Fresno Calif.
Merry Christmas, Skeet. Here's hoping that one of these days, you'll find time to compile a dictionary of translations to some of your posts. They
are becoming more....uh....enchanted all the time. Always a pleasure to read though.
OK....I'm off to my study with a stack of maps to find Dorea.
It is still snowing good , just came in from feeding the Horses and getting ready to pour myself a drink of Wine in my New Redneck Wine Glass!! A
little Gallo Red is good for the body.
"If it were lush and rich, one could understand the pull, but it is fierce and hostile and sullen.
The stone mountains pile up to the sky and there is little fresh water. But we know we must go back
if we live, and we don't know why." - Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
"People don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care." - Theodore Roosevelt
"You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who they think can do nothing for them or to them." - Malcolm Forbes
"Let others lead small lives, but not you. Let others argue over small things, but not you. Let others
cry over small hurts, but not you. Let others leave their future in someone else's hands, but not you." - Jim Rohn
"The best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer." - Cunningham's Law
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We
are all adults here. If one is immoral, they bear that responsibility to society and eventually pay the consequences. We don't need no Texas
preachin'.
