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mtgoat666
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Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc  | looking at the 1962 Gulick map we have some strong pointers
Arroyo san Jose - upper section not shown on today's topos
Arroyo San Jose (flowing down from Cerro Pedregoso - the real big one) runs past Rancho El Pedregoso
with a distinct curve
judging by how the ground looks like, I think it was here:
29°31'41.56"N, 114°31'7.61"W
no clear signs of the trough - but a faint indication
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Never knew that mountain was called cerro pedregoso. We have always called that T-Rex rocks, because of the large boulder visible on the skyline that
looks like profile of a T Rex.
I have always wanted to scramble up that mountain. Maybe next time i drive by i will park at the old ranch location and scramble up the peak.
[Edited on 5-1-2024 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
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4x4abc
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that rocky hill is NOT Cerro Pedregoso
it is called El Pedregoso, like the rancho
but Cerro Pedregoso is the 4,650 ft mountain in the back (north)
Harald Pietschmann
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4x4abc
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could be the trough
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
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Bravo!!! You found it... matches the Cross photo in tat it points toward the road, not parallel to it. Ranch house plot is pretty clear, too.
Good job, Harald... I knew you could do it!
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Lance S.
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| Quote: Originally posted by bajaric |
That would be fun to go out to the end of that road west of Parador Punta Prieta and try and find Leon Grande. .
[Edited on 5-1-2024 by bajaric] |
It would be fun to run out there, maybe do the 4 mile round trip hike to find the well.
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Lance S.
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The arroyo that flows past El Pedregrosso flows into Arroyo La Rinconada which then flows into Arroyo San Jose.
I believe the arroyo now called Codornices on Inegi maps is actually the head of Arroyo San Jose. Where San Jose de Las Palomas (possible head of the
mission rancheria of that name) is located.
[Edited on 5-1-2024 by Lance S.]
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4x4abc
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source of Arroyo San Jose:
29°34'47.64"N, 114°31'8.50"W
originating at Cerro Pedregoso
Arroyo La Rinconada flows into it past rancho El Pedregoso
the 1962 Gulick map is pretty clear about that
[Edited on 5-1-2024 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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Lance S.
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The spot marked water on this map is San Jose de Las Palomas.
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4x4abc
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Ar. Codornices originates here:
29°16'16.63"N.114°20'47.84"W
Harald Pietschmann
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4x4abc
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which map?
Harald Pietschmann
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Lance S.
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I believe Gulick is mistaken on that one.
Just an opinion.
[Edited on 5-1-2024 by Lance S.]
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Lance S.
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1905
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David K
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At www.vivabaja.com/maps ...
1905 Mine Map
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4x4abc
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I am on Gulick's side
haven't seen a single mistake in his maps
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
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As you may know, I am a huge Howard Gulick fan... His guidebook was the Baja Bible for so many of us in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. Meeting him was a
thrill for young me, as well. I drew maps in his style as a kid and teen +.
There are a couple of errors, but they were showing places he did not visit.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | that rocky hill is NOT Cerro Pedregoso
it is called El Pedregoso, like the rancho
but Cerro Pedregoso is the 4,650 ft mountain in the back (north)
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Are you sure? The granitic “rocky hill” is really more spectacular than the boring basalt mountain in the back,… and pedregoso seems like the
name old timers would have given to the granitic boulders of the rocky hill. And Google maps calls the hill “Cerro…” and I have heard (here)
that in baja the locals don't know, and what is on the internet is truthier  
[Edited on 5-2-2024 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
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David K
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Inegi does not consult historic sources or old timers very well. They get many names wrong or mixed up.
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
Are you sure? The granitic “rocky hill” is really more spectacular than the boring basalt mountain in the back,… and pedregoso seems like the
name old timers would have given to the granitic boulders of the rocky hill. And Google maps calls the hill “Cerro…” and I have heard (here)
that in baja the locals don't know, and what is on the internet is truthier
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there is a reason why this one network is called Truth Social and not Facts Social
truth is a user created feel good version of some selected facts
facts are just that - facts. They don't care how people feel about them
Google Maps uses official documents as a base
the rest is crowd sourcing
anyone can chip in
people are encouraged to chip in
saves staff
so, when smart phone tourists are zipping by a big rocky hill, they give it a rocky name in Google Maps
a tiny world through a small fast moving car window
names for landscape features were given by early travelers and frequent users
the simple fact that an Arroyo, mountain, Mesa, Punta has a name indicates that the area has been used a lot
early explorers and travelers named them for navigational reasons
mountain peaks like Puntas at the shore play a primary role
they were used as aiming points
So, the mighty Cerro Pedregoso served an important role in navigation for the late 1800's explorers and prospectors
the tiny rock dump in the valley did not
by the way - the name alone indicates to me who the first explorers and prospectors were
The padres used mostly Christian names for significant landscape features
prospectors an miners used real world names
Pedregoso, La Turquesa, La Rinconada
and the first significant travelers in that area were miners and prospectors
I just used the presence of names yesterday to find another important travel route in the area
Puerto San Francisquito, Lacey, Pioneer, Chapala, Puerto Bahia Blanco
I rarely ever search for old trails/roads in nameless Arroyos
by checking names on maps I found a previously unrecorded stretch of Camino Real a few years ago
Cañada La Cuesta Vieja
who would name an Arroyo in the middle of nowhere Cuesta La Vieja unless there was an old Cuesta?
and a Cuesta would indicate a trail
I zoomed in and found a well defined Camino Real section
not in any of the books
INEGI maps are a great tool for that
David might have some personal beef with them - I don't
[Edited on 5-2-2024 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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mtgoat666
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Language is not static, words in use change over time, same with geographic names,… the common local usage drifts with time,… geographic names
were not etched in stone in the 1700s.
Maybe crowd sourcing (google maps, open street map) is best way to establish and document geographic names actually used by people, eh?
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
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4x4abc
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | Language is not static, words in use change over time, same with geographic names,… the common local usage drifts with time,… geographic names
were not etched in stone in the 1700s.
Maybe crowd sourcing (google maps, open street map) is best way to establish and document geographic names actually used by people, eh?
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on street level - sure
Harald Pietschmann
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