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drwnorth
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Posts: 14
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Violence against tourists ---
Having read in detail all posts in this thread and those in General Discussion regarding recent very unfortunate, VERY sad events in Baja I find
myself, out of respect and dignity for Raquel [her likely being identity mistaken or victim in another way of a very disturbed individual(s) whom I
would take out without giving a second thought], and to Larry and the family, I've begun this new thread.
I've only been traveling in Third World countries, mostly Mexico since 1969 so may not have all the answers but - I'm just wondering?
Why is it?? That a few of you who have posted responses to the tragedy, seem to have most of the problems and most of the rest of us have few or no
problems?
DW
drwexploring@hotmail.com
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
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Location: Sunset Beach
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Ah!
A most interesting and perceptive question.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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fishbuck
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My guess is that silence on the subject does not indicate a lack of caring. Plus, the latest natural disaster is a distraction from the recent
tragedy.
It would be difficult to not be somewhat heartbroken and troubled by the murder of a friendly grandmother.
The reality is that death in Baja by accident or violence is nothing new. I know of one other unsolved murder in the San Quintin area of some beach
campers from about 5 years ago. Also a questionable "accident" killed WaycoolMike last year at the TJ airport.
We might never know what happened to that poor lady.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by drwnorth
Why is it?? That a few of you who have posted responses to the tragedy, seem to have most of the problems and most of the rest of us have few or no
problems? |
It may be partly a question of perspective, or attitude.
For example, in the context of the recent reports, I might say "Gee...I haven't had any problems."
Then again, our car got broken into, and stuff stolen out of it twice, and three neighbors on our block have been burglarized. In the last year or so.
That surpasses 30 years of crime we have exprienced in Montana in a larger town.
Also, I still am not sure if there has been a surge in crime, or just a coindidental convergence of crime with internet message board connected
people.
Stll, as we travel south from Montana into the large US metropolitan areas, we realize there is more crime, and criminal justice systems that
routinely release people convicted of crimes that would keep them locked up in Montana. We are also aware, as we cross into Mexico, that there are
larger gaps in wealth.And whether or not law enforcement in Mexico is sufficiently motivated, there are less resources available to them.
So, you have to find a perhaps narrow line between justifiable vigilance and unnecessary paranoia.
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bajacagirl
Newbie
Posts: 2
Registered: 9-4-2006
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: nervous
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I live in Baja and all i can say is i have Dogs and a big wall, but before I had these things they broke into my husbands car and took all his tools
(carpenter). The min. wage is $5 and something a day. I know I couldn't live on that not even here in Mexico. I wonder how people make it with the
cost of things. Thank God for the Sentri pass and the U.S.A is only 20-30 miles from here.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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I dont think that your / our area is representative of the entire Mexican economy. Everything is higher here. A person earning no more than 5 bucks
a day here couldn't afford to eat anything other than rocks and twigs.
Later .... Dennis
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AmoPescar
Senior Nomad
Posts: 835
Registered: 7-15-2006
Location: North San Diego County
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Mood: Need a Fish Taco and a Pacifico!
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drwnorth...
Am I detecting some arrogance here...or am I just reading more(or less?) into your posting?? Am I missing something in your post?
I'm one of the posters who started a thread about the violence.
Should they/we not feel outraged and angry about the violence?
So what if they've had acts of crime or violence commited against them and they've shared that fact while expressing themselves. Does that somehow
make them a lesser person? I get the feeling that you think they brought it on themselves in some way.
Please explain your posting to me.
Amo
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drwnorth
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Amo,
Thank you for bringing the topic back on track.
I think I made my point about how I feel about the violence and what I'd do about it if given the chance....
Clearly this is not about arrogance or "better than you".
It's about understanding travel, living outside the States, and making this and the ex-pat concept better.
--------------------
........traveling at 3 AM on one of the most notoriously known dangerous routes in all of Mexico ???
--------------------
But what do I know? Being a gringo born and raised in soCal in a Latino neighborhood....
drwnorth
DW
drwexploring@hotmail.com
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fishbuck
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After rereading the original posters question I too detect some smugness.
I've been very fortunate in my travels to baja. I lost a pair of fins in Mag Bay but it may have just been carelessness on my part. That's all.
I've traveled alone a lot and at night(very early morning). I've interacted(gotten drunk with) with the locals even some I wasn't sure about and never
had a problem.
Maybe I've just been lucky. Even still I think I'll be a little more careful in the future.
I have noticed that some of the people who run into problems in MX are the same ones who run into problems in the states.
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drwnorth
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fishbuck,
It's not about smugness nor was it intended.
It's about your last sentence.
DW
drwexploring@hotmail.com
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Bajalero
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 11-24-2003
Location: todos santos/ rcho san diego
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"doc"
Your perspective or anyone elses doesn't amount to a hill of beans when your numbers up .
If you spend enough time in Baja ,yours will come around
Your question, why is it , is absurd . Don't you think the most likely to respond actually have had a bad experience?
Do you by chance know Germanicus ?
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Frank
Senior Nomad
Posts: 861
Registered: 6-5-2005
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Is it time to leave yet?
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| Quote: |
........traveling at 3 AM on one of the most notoriously known dangerous routes in all of Mexico ???
|
How would you know it was a dangerous road at that time of morning without someone telling you? I use to travel that stretch of road on my way
south @ that time of morning. Now that there were several problems and I know about it, I can be better prepared.
Its only a matter of time before a incident happens to all of us. We just try to minimize them. Im sure your name will come up on the big wheel,
when it does, you will draw on your knowledge and handle it. If you didnt have the knowledge then, it could be considered a "problem" instead of a
small tope.
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drwnorth
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Bajalero,
Absurd?
I think not.
DW
drwexploring@hotmail.com
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drwnorth
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Frank,
That's the beauty of a website like this - current info.
Baja is unique and we're lucky to have one of the more comprehensive boards anywhere outside the US with current accurate updated info.
How would you know?
I've known about the toll road between TJ and Ensenada for about thirty years so my question now is - why wouldn't you know?
DW
drwexploring@hotmail.com
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Frank
Senior Nomad
Posts: 861
Registered: 6-5-2005
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Is it time to leave yet?
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You wouldnt know if you were a new Baja traveler. The road looks just like a regular US road. The little reciept says the toll you just paid helps to
pay for the green angels that will come to your assistance. You feel safe.
I have to admit, I drove that road so many times, Id let my guard down when I got on it. It was like a old friend, never changing. To read about
problems on it really shocked me, so now Ill be more aware, and alert.
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drwnorth
Newbie
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That stretch has always had it's problems.
First time in MX, back in '69 returning to the States at night we were pulled over by police.
We bought our way out of it no problem.
I think the key is to advance your trip using forums like this.
A wealth of info....
DW
drwexploring@hotmail.com
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Mike Humfreville
Super Nomad
Posts: 1148
Registered: 8-26-2003
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Many of us...
have had lives filled with the wonderful and sometimes fearful things that can happen in any society or foreign place, in this case Mexico. While
many of us knew Raquel for many, many years there are many that were closer to her and Larry and their family than others of us. It has nothing to do
with problems we've experiemced or a lack of support for that family. It has to do with respect for the fact that the family is filled with people
with closer values and history than, in this case, me.
I agree with Amo that your post sounds condescending and perhaps like you are really trying, between the lines, to make some other point. This is not
a criticism. We all communicate in our own ways. But for you to initiate a thread superficially filled with discrete putdowns as to why we may
choose a reason for empathy during a very trying time is, to me at least, inappropriate.
Regardess how many years we've been spending time in Baja, many of us have learned to respect each other across our differences and similarities and
to be there for each other when an emergency or tragedy occurs. Some of us do that best by being silent out of respect.
At any rate, Raquel's death will remain an influence in the village for generations. I hope that was the purpose of your post, and, if so, I
completely agree.
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AmoPescar
Senior Nomad
Posts: 835
Registered: 7-15-2006
Location: North San Diego County
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Mood: Need a Fish Taco and a Pacifico!
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drwnorth...
| Quote: | Why is it?? That a few of you who have posted responses to the tragedy, seem to have most of the problems and most of the rest of us have few or no
problems?
But what do I know? Being a gringo born and raised in soCal in a Latino neighborhood....
Bajalero, Absurd? I think not.
How would you NOT know? YOU FORGOT THE "NOT" !!!
I've known about the toll road between TJ and Ensenada for about thirty years so my question now is - why wouldn't you know? |
WELL...IF YOU DON'T THINK WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN DOESN'T SOUND ARROGANT, SMUG CONDESCENDING OR SUPERIOR, YOU SURE HAVE A PROBLEM!
Not everyone can be as well informed as you. Some don't have internet access or know who (or where) to ask the questions.
I've been traveling Baja for years, have read many stories and books on Baja, and have been reading this Baja Forum and other Baja Internet Forums for
years. But by NO MEANS do I consider myself an expert in any aspect of the Baja experience.
I DO know the dangers of the highways, and I have always tried to be careful driving on them. I have never had a ticket for driving in Baja, nor have
I ever been stopped for a vehicle driving infraction...or even a fake one. Nor, have I ever been robbed, or had anything major stolen. This is all
because I am extremely cautious and very careful. Yet, despite all my cautions, I know that I won't always be that lucky. SOMETHING BAD WILL HAPPEN
TO ME SOME TIME!
Yet, despite my feelings for your opinions, I consider you a Nomad and Baja Amigo.
Amo Pescar (aka:Michael)
[Edited on 9-5-2006 by AmoPescar]
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fishbuck
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The toll road is notoriously dangerous? I've never heard that before. I've read of a few incidents here.
The only danger I've ever noticed is people driving to fast. I just try to stay out of their way.
I always stop on the side of the road north of Ensenada. That's the best place to relieve myself before TJ and the border.
What else is dangerous that we should know about?
I guess I really have been lucky and I want to get smarter about being lucky.
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Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
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Mood: Just dancing through life
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Smugness-by many here
By Don Alley, "So, you have to find a perhaps narrow line between justifiable vigilance and unnecessary paranoia. "
That is where I was hoping this thread was going!
Instead I hear someone screaming here.
Most of us old timers have always known that it attracted those who would prey on those with nicer things and more money. I even knew this before I
was allowed to join the Amigo's and then Nomad board. Like sometime 'before' this terrible road was built.
I guess we have been remiss because we assumed that 'everyone' knew of the problems.
Thinking about it-- to us it was really not a problem--just something to be dealt with on a routine basis.
Now, I believe that it is being very much overdone.
There are a bunch of place in San Diego and LA that I have knowledge of and would never think of going there during the day, much less at night.
I started harping on the hazards of driving in Baja (all of it) at night on the two forums I spoke of and all I got was--silence at best.
Baja does have a dark underbelly and those of us who still love it and plan on continuing our visits had better be aware of it!
So, alright, already, let's balance things out and talk about some of the good stuff.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
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