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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Loreto Bay - the June 2007 Version
Hot off the presses. These guys are good. They've addressed all the problems we've brought up in a very professional, carefully written document, "The
Inaugural Sustainability Report".
It's almost like they read Bajanomad and decided that they needed to address the issues raised here point-by-point. I suppose it's also in response to
the environmental groups that are raising the BS flag.
It's quite a spiel. Being the cynic that I am, I feel I must point out their interpretation of using energy/water efficient techniques as "saving"
energy and water. Well, I don't know. What it really is is not using as much if normal techniques were used. They are not "saving" anything. Quite the
contrary.
You will see that they are having a hard time with the fact that there's not enough water. It's a tough fact to tap dance around. The first sentence
about water establishes their contractural right to take all they need from the ground supply. Then they go on to explain that the "harvesting" plan
may take generations to produce significant results and that the reverse osmosis desalination is being "researched".
They even took old hippie's suggestion and are going to grow food, not in place of the golf courses however. It's going to be "organic" food too! How
nice.
I love the term "eco golf course" that they are now using. Drought resistant would be better.
They have a 20 year lease of ejido land for the wind power project. So I guess they got around the 10 year maximum.
They also point out that sewage treatment is not their responsibility, it's the responsibility of the city. But of course they're helping.
To sum it up, they have no binding requirement to solve the water supply or sewage treatment problems. But they will because they are eco-friendly and
I guess currently think they have the money it will take. Of course they wouldn't sop up what water is there and not worry about the sewage once the
pipe leaves their property.
It sounds to good to be true. Therefore....
http://www.loretobay.com/files/pdf/inaugural-sustainability-...
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djh
Senior Nomad
Posts: 936
Registered: 1-2-2005
Location: Earth mostly. Loreto, N. ID, Big Island
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mellow fellow, plays a yellow cello...
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LBS
as in Loreto Bull....
Most Nomads know me to be thoughtful and a peacemaker.... (I am... however...) I feel a need to speak to this directly.... I read their glossy
report ... and honestly.... this reads like the biggest bowl of BS I've seen in a long time.....
(from their own "report"):
"According to Loreto Bay’s contractual agreement with the federal government of Mexico, we have the right to supply all of our water needs by
accessing the regional water supply in the San Juan Well Basin.
However, in the spirit of our sustainability mandate, it is our plan to be a water independent development and, in
essence, to return that water to the local community to ensure that its needs are met as it grows over the next decades. This means
that, by the time our project is completed, we will have saved the region hundreds of millions of gallons of water, and will save in
perpetuity approximately 400 million gallons of water every year. Our plan includes water harvesting, production and conservation."
Its all just stuff and some numbers.
A day spent sailing isn\'t deducted from one\'s life.
Peace, Love, and Music
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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| Quote: | | Our plan includes water harvesting, production and conservation. |
I guess you just plant some water, watch it grow and then harvest.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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I'll read on in a day or so after I've recovered from seeing the master plan!
Actually, I knew all this, but the visual sure brings it all home 
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aquaholic
Nomad
Posts: 119
Registered: 9-2-2006
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...anyone remember the "Rocky & Bullwinkle Show"..???...this is one of the "Fractured Fairy Tales"...
...and then, we can wait to see what the larger project Fadesa is planning will do to the water supply...
YIKES!!!
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
Money buys talent. 
--Larry |
You're right. These are very talented people, especially in the fields of marketing (which is what we see) and finance (which is what I want to see).
Plus they have Internet marketing figured out. But that's a double edged sword because the Internet also makes it easy to differentiate between fact
and fiction. And more importantly millions of readers can read what they write the day after it's posted. Hopefully a good portion of the readers will
think that what they are doing just doesn't make sense because of the location.
It's a huge risk for both the environment and for the guys that have their money wrapped up in this ill conceived development.
I've been thinking for months (so I might as well say it) that if these guys believe in what they're saying, they're stupid, and if they don't believe
in what they're saying, they're liars.
And I think the Spanish guys with big Loreto area resort plans are blowing smoke. The Loreto Bay guys probably gave them a condo to issue a press
release and hype the place.
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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The term "water harvesting" refers to catching the rain water. You know, the 4.5" annual average. Of course in Loreto you need to catch it quick
before it evaporates.
I mentioned they're good at Internet marketing, check this out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Villages_of_Loreto_Bay
Wikipedia is an "open source" encyclopedia written by "the people". I think I'll do some editing. I'll add facts to contradict the fiction that is
there now.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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It seems that the Loreto Bay plan is almost certainly destined to use the entire regions water and polute the space as fast as it possibly can.
Once again, in no short order, there will be a ghost town left where a development started shortly before, this time in Loreto. How spooky it will be
to arrive only 10-15 years from now and see a dust swept huge city, with nothing left but abadonded mini-mansions and the holy grail, the eco-golf
course, the cut aorta of the peninsulas life blood water system.
When someone lies to you in your face while commiting a massive crime to destroy a city and hurt you and your family it's all out war. Bring in the
big guns...
Normally in these types of battles, revolutionaries breakdown the infrastructure and attack central command posts, but that's not relevant in a place
with no infrastructure or intelligent command?
Ol Hippie, what does it say we should do in this case in the Hippie Revolutionary Handbook? Sing some songs in the town square? Put flowers in their
cement mixers? March on the portable offices with cookies? Or as in most cases these things fail on their own.
How about a promotional poster...
"Visit Eco Adventure Loreto. Challenge yourself to survive the extremes, dry and windy freezing Winters and unbearably hot Summers."
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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Power to the people!
Remember those shipyard workers in Poland about 25 years ago? Solidarity? Those blue collar guys kicked off the disintegration of the Soviet Empire.
Local protests.
Think globally, act locally. Trite but true.
The big, old money, local land owners need to understand what the risks are. I'd chat with the local priest. He's almost God to the citizens.
Especially to the old land owners with some wisdom who are feeling their mortality. What he says goes.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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We've known for a while that when a lot of cash changed hands between Fonatur and LB, part of the deal was that Fonatur sold Loreto's water to LB.
That water may be worth more than the land. Anyway, to put a fig leaf on it Fonatur has finally transferred the water rights to the city, but only
after LB has secured a contractual right to take all they want.
Sewer: Fonatur agreed to take responsibility for sewage, and a plant is under construction near the nursery.
The new water restrictions in Loreto? It would probably be a violation of the water contract to enforce such regulations in Loreto Bay.
I may read LB's report later, I'm on the road with a s l o w connection now.
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3797
Registered: 2-9-2004
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Page 1 says they "welcome [our] suggestions and ... assistance."
I've got a suggestion for them - you want to "tread lightly" - go home to Canada. Better yet, go back home to Civano and finish the job there.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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One of the first things one might want to do in a desert, before planning anything that needs water, would be to check the age of the water coming out
of the residential sink. Once you know how old the water is you can make some assumptions about how and when to use it. Wouldn't planners want to
know if the water fell 100 years ago or just last fall? Water is really hard to make -- I heard some of the farms around Constitucion have been
draining the aqaufir now at depths where it is centuries old -- can't get that water back and when it's gone, it's gone.
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bajabeachbabe
Nomad
Posts: 150
Registered: 9-11-2006
Location: Loreto,
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Mood: Loving life
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120 Homes Complete?
LB is stating that there are 120 homes completed in the Founders Village. I recall reading that there are only a couple full-time residents there.
Here is a quote from Nellie's Blog from this past Sunday:
"There were many friends and neighbors in town this weekend. We gathered at the INN on Thursday evening under the bright full moon. It was great to
see everyone and feel the vision of community and remember why we bought here again. Everyone is so very nice and friendly.
The new General Manager of the Hotel is Alfredo, who is shown on the left. The absence of staff from Loreto Bay Company was very evident and we were
told that they would not be providing any representation at these events. I guess the owners are now on our own – even though most in attendance still
do not have their completed homes yet. Oh Well."
Do you think the LB staff don't dare show their faces to the buyers?
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backninedan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 865
Registered: 3-8-2003
Location: Loreto
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Has anyone met a Loreto Ghetto buyer? Just curious, I have yet to meet one.
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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why don't you all call Jim Grogan and just ask him directly? He doesn't hide and is willing to discuss any aspects of the LB. You can report your
findings here, even Tell Grogan you're going to do that.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3797
Registered: 2-9-2004
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Some things are just nonsensical. They state that they're building on the shores of the National Marine Park, and they've spent a lot of money to
understand and protect it, trying to convince the reader that by donating large sums of money to OTHERS who will protect it, they will be associated
with those organizations and their preservation goals. However, in the same section they describe what they're actually DOING: using fertilizers and
insecticides and pesticides, and cleaning products, and shellacs, and composting system to process 30,000 tons of organic waste which I assume would
result in a significant amount of compost which they'll use on their 100 acre farm and golf course -- all of which will create huge amounts of
nitrogen and toxins that will ultimately flow into the Gulf and the Marine Preserve. And I'll bet the mosquitoes will love the sewage, swales,
estuary and rainwater channels.
And this is just a total waste of money - I wonder who actually got this money: $40,000 for the development of a REPORT on the recreational values
and benefit transfers (yawn) of fishery resources in the Loreto Bay Marine Park. Couldn't they have just asked Flyfishin Pam and given her $20,000?
What a scam.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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I wouldn't have accepted $20K or $20mill to help these people rape our town.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Bass ackwards
IMO, you're approaching this the wrong way. It's not LB that's the problem it's people buying into LB.
If the town is so against the project they should pool some money and hire a slick internet ad/development company to put up a website and tell their
side of the story.
Fight fire with fire.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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Bass ackwards?
No we're not. we're discussing it and we will come together and we'll stop it. their discouraging us will only make us stronger
thanks hippie for pointing to this document and the wikipedia information will be updated now and then!
this document did parallel concerns that were publicly posted on this board so this is a valueable place. it was a desperate move on their part to
come up with this report at such an identical time as the last long thread on LB and the water issue threads. they're feeling it! facts will win
over their hype and they'll be laid out to the very ones who will need to be concerned about them the Loretanos the masses.
take a look at who got grant money and that will explain why they won't speak out about Loreto Bay or water issues. I could make associations between
those entities and the startling article I posted in february but won't now as I'm too busy and too disgusted.
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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You know what the weakest link in this huge gamble is?
The airport. Without flights in, sales would stop dead in their tracks.
Just planting authentic and sustainable seeds.
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