| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
Member Is Offline
|
|
More PROFEPA raids/citations ?
I "heard" that PROFEPA has struck the Mulége area. Also that there was an article in a La Paz paper about it. 90 properties have been cited and even
the Presidents project along the river was stopped. Does anyone have any "real" info?
Oh, and they're back! The seiners from HELL
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
|
|
|
Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9009
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
|
|
Russ, could you give us the general background on this issue again?
If it's the issue of encroachment into the Federal tidal zone, then I have an acquaintence who has a place in Posada Concepcion who has apparently
been told he has to pay up for this. I know no other details; not the amount nor who served him the demand. But supposedly others in Posada were
served with this.
|
|
|
Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
Member Is Offline
|
|
This is a huge issue for us in the Punta Chivato area. Last year, June and/or July '06, PROFEPA people showed up and forced those of us here to sign
documents. Under threat of jail. There were more than a dozen in pairs canvasing the whole area. Since many people weren't here they just shoved the
citations in a crack in a window or scotched taped them to something. Most of those were destroyed by hurricane John or other summer storms. The
citations, which few could understand, addressed three major issues. 1) The first document/citation covered Encroachment on the federal zone. The
second covered 2) removal of native plants, ie grading of building sites without the environmental study and 3) building without federal permits. and
we had 15 days to respond. Well, this year they returned and some were cited and fined for not responding. Of what I understand, the fines started at
$10,000usd. Each property has individual issues but the fine were mostly for not responding to last years notices. Our dilema was/is who to hire to
address this mess. Last year a few of us hired a guy to work out the mess with PROFEPA. Both gringos & local owners. He did do something for me
because I didn't receive a penalty notice that I am aware of. To make this shorter Most of PC hired another firm this year. Lots of panicking
homeowners now with lots of rumors and misinformation but I have confidence in Hilario Toba and although the process is slow I believe it is moving
forward. I learned today that Hilario has been successful with the land issues concerning the original development on Parcel 121. But is continuing
his plan on Shell Beach.
This is just another test of patients living here in Mexico. Of course some describe it MUCH more strongy. I'll be happy to respond to anyone with
information as I understand it. But do NOT take it as fact. I will not get into any peeing matches. So be nice. Russ
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
|
|
|
CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
|
|
Russ,
Do you know if these buyers had done title search a or title insurance ? I personally don't know if either carries any weight in Mexico. I do
understand there are only a couple of companies that offer title insurance in Mexico.
Would be very interested in your comments,
- CaboRon
|
|
|
Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
Ron,
This is not a title insurance issue.
This is an issue of either building wthin the Federal Zone or not getting the correct permit to build adjacent to the zone, prior to construction.
.
|
|
|
CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
Ron,
This is not a title insurance issue.
This is an issue of either building wthin the Federal Zone or not getting the correct permit to build adjacent to the zone, prior to construction.
. |
My mistake .... I was under the impression that a title search would also involve the actual position of the lot eg. survey showing whether it
encroached on other properties private or public, or rights of way, etc.
How do you protect yourself ? This could be an extreemly expensive mistake .... if indeed a mistake were made ......
What a drag,
CaboRon
|
|
|
Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
|
|
Last year PROFEPA took what I heard was about $400K US out of the people living along this broad bay, Palmas Bay at East Cape for the aforementioned 3
violations. As far as I know no title policy in Mexico covers these fines as they are not a clear part of chain of title. Property owners here
naturally looked to the original sellers, developers, realtors and contractors who they thought might have been remis but all the ones I know about
had to finally "go it alone" as they discovered PROFEPA and SEMARNAT found easier and better heeled targets > the property owner. Once the fine
posters realized what a bonanza East Cape might be they came driving up not in cars but in buses. Can you say "abogado de la ley?"
|
|
|
Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
Member Is Offline
|
|
Local permits, fideicomiso nor title insurance gave us any clues as to what was needed/required form the feds. And now they all dumby up. 15 years
later I'm suddenly informed. My fault, the law has been there since 1988 or so. But NO locals provided information and won't today.
[Edited on 8-8-2007 by Russ]
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
|
|
|
CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peacefull
|
|
Russ,
I am truly sorry about what has got to feel like a Kafka inspired tragedy.
It looks as if those properties are going to cost a lot more than anyone anticipated.
Good Luck,
CaboRon
|
|
|
Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
I found this book particulary helpful.
http://www.mexicanlaws.com/SEMARNAT/SEMARNAT_GUIDES.htm
|
|
|
Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
Member Is Offline
|
|
Diver is correct. I put my driveway to my property line on the beach and since the federal zone was measured after hurricane John's high tide mark I
am in that area adjacent to the fed zone. I'm hoping to get a new federal zone survey in my favor. We'll see when we see. But there are still the
issues of clearing the building site. Which was done prior to me purchase. And construction or improvements.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
|
|
|
Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
Member Is Offline
|
|
Diver, Great find! I'm afraid to delv into to all that. After all I moved down here to avoid bureaucratic non-sense in Kitsap County.
Now can you find a source on what the commercial fishing regs are for Bahia Concepcion and The Playa Santa Inez area? I've written a couple of the
"Green Folks" without response. There just has to be something about it out there. I thought it was a reserve of some kind but the sardineros continue
to scoop up every bait ball here. What a disaster!
[Edited on 8-8-2007 by Russ]
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
|
|
|
flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
Diver, Great find! I'm afraid to delv into to all that. After all I moved down here to avoid bureaucratic non-sense in Kitsap County.
Now can you find a source on what the commercial fishing regs are for Bahia Concepcion and The Playa Santa Inez area? I've written a couple of the
"Green Folks" without response. There just has to be something about it out there. I thought it was a reserve of some kind but the sardineros continue
to scoop up every bait ball here. What a disaster!
[Edited on 8-8-2007 by Russ] |
I donīt know where my response went of well,
russ I tried to say to send the photo and the informaiton to Sea Watch. their
website is www.seawatch.org and they will be very interested in this. also perhaps Minerva who is tracking NOM 029 violations. Her website is www.minervas.com
I am sorry to hear about the profepa intrusion it is very out of line to blame a person who bought an existing property. Canīt understand why they
donīt have the sense to grandfather in properties that have existed for years before they came along to inspect. This ought to be made more public so
others buying property here will be veen more careful. The high tide lines change with storms and they ought to consider that in their laws. If
Mexico wants to sell off all her beachfront she ought to be very clear on the law and not deceive the very investors they keep begging for, it just
ainīt right.
[Edited on 8-8-2007 by flyfishinPam]
|
|
|
Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
|
|
no pam.. the law is specific...
if you chose to buy or build directly on the federal zone you take the chance
you can apply for a variance yearly if the "tides change" and you find out you're in the federal zone all of a sudden even one inch
then you pay a fee
|
|
|
toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
|
|
Russ,
In your first post you mentioned the Mulege area and the "President's project along the river..."
Did you mean the Governor's clean up project after Hurricane John? Also do you have any information as to where, besides Punta Chivato the cited 90
properties lie?
|
|
|
flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
|
|
I am not saying the law isnīt specific but it ought to be made public knowledge and not so secret, especially given the fact that Mexico wants foreign
investment.
|
|
|
Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
|
|
you are correct
none of the locals know the law
you're right
education is needed
|
|
|
flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bob and Susan
you are correct
none of the locals know the law
you're right
education is needed |
and these laws that are so importans as to how they affect beachfront investments ought be be made available in ENGLISH which is the language that
most of the investment dinero comes from. If Mexico wants foreign investment then she ought to not continue to deceive and surprize the very
investors she continues to pander to.
|
|
|
Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Full Time Residents
|
|
i disagree
spanish is the language
too bad if you cant read or speak
just lke the states...why so many languages
english only
and they don't deceive...
it's the training of the local government that is lacking
locals dont know
there should be a better education system
|
|
|
Baja Bernie
`Normal` Nomad Correspondent
Posts: 2962
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: Sunset Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Just dancing through life
|
|
One simple comment from an old mossback................Money flows with the tide and it always has.
My smidgen of a claim to fame is that I have had so many really good friends. By Bernie Swaim December 2007
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
4 |
![[*]](images/xmbforum/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
