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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3502
Registered: 8-27-2003
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Recent TJ traffic cop scams
This has been discussed to death but I thought I would post my recent experience just to let people know some of the newer mordita scams going on in
TJ.
On Friday morning of last week a couple came to camp that had crossed at San Yisidro at 5 am that morning, still dark. Along the border road they
were stopped by a police car and extorted for about $60. After paying, they were stopped a quarter mile later by a motorcycle cop with the same
speeding crap and the man complained that he just got stopped. The cop asked how much he had paid, the man told him, and then gave him $10. The cop
handed it back to him and told him to go on his way.
As I returned to the States on Saturday night, I crossed the last toll booth about 9:00pm and slowed to 35mph, way less than the 80kph posted, and
continued to the crossing. As soon as I dropped down to the road that is next to the border fence I pickup two motorcycle cops who pulled me over. 1
cop was in front of me and one at my window. The cop at the window spoke good English and told me I was speeding and asked for my drivers license and
registration. As he was looking at them he asked me what I did for a living; I asked him why he wanted to know but he did not answer – I told him I
was retired.
He then told me to turn right at the next street that there was a police station there – I told him I thought the station was further down near
Revolution but he said there was one close. I turned right (south) and followed them one block, they turned right again (west) and followed them one
block where they told me to stop. I asked them where was the station and they said it had closed for the night. One cop went west to the next
street, looked up and down it and came back and said the street was closed and had me make a u-turn and go back to the intersection and turn left
(north) so I was facing the 4 lane road again. I realized later that they wanted me facing the 4 lane road so it would be easy for me to get back on
it (I was towing a boat).
He made a big show of going over all my paper work, even the boat papers, checking numbers etcetera. He then pulled out a brochure from the
California Hiway Patrol showing that they share info with the TJ police and that if I get a ticket in TJ it goes to the CHP and that my insurance
would be informed and that I would get points on my record in California. He told me that the judge had gone home for the day and that he would right
me a ticket for speeding and that I would have to come back on Tuesday or Wednesday to pay the fine of $2500 pesos (he showed me the fine schedule).
I asked which day but he shrugged his shoulders and said who knows when the judge would be there. I told him to just give me the ticket and that
there was an address on the back for me to mail to the check to in San Diego when I got back home but he said they quit doing that program because too
many people did not send in the money.
He then told me that his partner had called his boss and that his boss said that I could just give them $140 and that they would not bother to report
the speeding ticket to the CHP. I declined, telling them I would be happy to come back on Tuesday and wait for the judge.
They told me this was my lucky day, handed me my paperwork and left.
My attitude during the whole procedure was polite, respectful but firm.
I know there are differing opinions on paying or not paying, but I encourage all of you that do not want to pay to just keep your fear down, and
insist on going to the station to pay the fine there. My guess is that most of these guys will fold.
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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Good for you Santiago!
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mikeintj
Junior Nomad
Posts: 45
Registered: 8-27-2006
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Thanks for that story Santiago. It really is sad that this goes on all the time and nobody does anything about it. I can only say from my experience I
have gone to $40 but no more. They have always accepted that. Unfortunately I am too impatient to play the waiting game, and I always wanted to be on
my way ASAP.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Maybe it's because more people have access to this and other forums but, it seems to me that we're hearing about these occurances more and more all
the time. When will we, as a group, learn to fight back? I've said it here before, we have no solidarity. A voice of one will never be heard.
Any suggestions?
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mikeintj
Thanks for that story Santiago. It really is sad that this goes on all the time and nobody does anything about it. I can only say from my experience I
have gone to $40 but no more. They have always accepted that. Unfortunately I am too impatient to play the waiting game, and I always wanted to be on
my way ASAP. |
Sometimes it is difficult to read a person...I get both that you are unaware that people like you are the main cause of hell the rest of us go
through....also maybe I hear a hint that you maybe want to change your unacceptable behavior
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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mikeintj
Junior Nomad
Posts: 45
Registered: 8-27-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
I get both that you are unaware that people like you are the main cause of hell the rest of us go through....also maybe I hear a hint that you maybe
want to change your unacceptable behavior |
Complete BS.
The main cause of your hell is corruption in Mexico. Why there is so much corruption is an interesting question. Why aren't US cops corrupt or
European ones? Of course Americans and Europeans would not tolerate corruption, so why do Mexicans? I don't know the answer to this.
My behavior may be unacceptable to you, but it is a reasonable, rational response by me. It is a simple fact that I would rather pay $40 and be on my
way. I do this because I know that my individual behaviour will not change the attitude of the cops, they will still solicite bribes. I should add
that I first refuse to pay, and it is only after the response of the cop (and my trying to guess the type of person that he is), that I begin the
bartering process.
I don't know where you live but I lived in Tijuana and Rosarito for approximately 4 years. It is a wearisome fact of life there that you will get
stopped by the police and asked for bribes. If I was to enter a 2 hour showdown everytime that I was asked for a bribe I would never be able to get
anything done.
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losfrailes
Senior Nomad
Posts: 577
Registered: 11-16-2004
Location: Ejido San Lucas near Santa Rosalia
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Mood: Good!
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Why not report this behavior to the Department of Turismo! I see a pattern that involves early morning hours and lack of other traffic.
I do believe that the Department of Turismo, were they brought in on this, would take some positive steps.
But, never having been stopped by these early morning cops, what do I know.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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MikeinJ-------
You make some interesting points, but I think you are missing the MAIN point------
If crimes (any crimes involving money) were not profitable, they would not happen. By paying the mordida you make the crime profitable, and that harms
everybody else. Thus, you "enable" this corruption to continue. Without enableing folks cooperating with the crooks, there would be no corruption.
So, you have it backwards, in my opinion.
In 55+ years of travel in Mexico I have NEVER paid any mordida, and I have NEVER regretted it.
barry
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3502
Registered: 8-27-2003
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| Quote: |
I don't know where you live but I lived in Tijuana and Rosarito for approximately 4 years. It is a wearisome fact of life there that you will get
stopped by the police and asked for bribes. If I was to enter a 2 hour showdown everytime that I was asked for a bribe I would never be able to get
anything done. |
My guess is that from the first pullover to when I was back on the road was 10 or 12 minutes.
I have been in sales my whole life and in the first few minutes I know if my prospect will buy. I think these guys are the very same. I'm not
trying to start an argument over paying/not paying - we will never convince each other to change. I'm only saying that if you do not want to pay -
don't. It won't take much time for them to realise it and look for others.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Mordida, in its unadulterated form, is ideal. I would imagine that years way back, the police were paid nothing. Mordida was their paycheck.
What could have been better? The lawbreakers supported law enforcement. Now, I know that is simplistic. Times have changed and so has everything
else except mordida and the police tradition that has kept it very much alive. Anybody who thinks that, if they are payed more, mordida will
vanish, is kidding themselves. It won't. They won't turn down money. It's laughable to think they would.
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
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Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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Santiago, thanks for posting, sorry this happened and FYI I emailed your post early this morning to the tourism officials, if you want more info on
who, you can U2U me. As for the man that sais he lived in Tijuana / Rosarito 4 years, I must say that IMHMO you are only feeding the corruption and
paying a bribe "you" become corrupt also. I say this not from 4 years experience but more from about 50.
Saludos
[Edited on 11-12-2007 by fdt]
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Giving this more thought, I can think of one thing that would stop a lot of the roadside extortion. There should be a judge available close by
twenty four hours per day and the procedure should have a guaranty not to exceed thirty minutes. Going to see the judge would no longer be a threat.
It would be a pleasure. The money would go to the city fund and the cop will have done the job he is paid to do.
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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Dennis, I do like that ideal...the people that ARE breaking the law would then have no recourse and would not be able to contribute to the corruption
leveled at us. Mikeintj will say it won't work...it will if they turn in the money with the criminal and then are rewarded with the bribe plus the
judge adds 10-20% to the fine and rewards the cop with that also...of course this would only work if the cops are video equipped to prove the bribe
and crime. I have no problem with the policia make good money as long as the people obey the law are not harassed. Someone who has had to bribe cops
several times in 4 years cannot, IMO, be innocent.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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The Gull
Super Nomad
Posts: 2223
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
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Mood: High
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Santiago has the right idea. There are differences of opinion of pay or no pay. Do what you choose is best for you. He posted it as a warning to
other Nomads and a method for those who do not want to pay.
Shame that a newbie expresses his opinion that his time is more valued than his cash and he gets swarmed by a pack accusing him of being guilty of
something and promoting graft & corrruption in Baja.
In fairness to other opinions and their right to post, how about not making such "value" judgments regarding people who hold opposite opinions.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by The Gull
Shame that a newbie expresses his opinion that his time is more valued than his cash and he gets swarmed by a pack accusing him of being guilty of
something and promoting graft & corrruption in Baja. |
I agree with you, Gull. Actually, Mikeintj has been around here longer than I have so he's not really a Newbie.
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
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Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Actually, Mikeintj has been around here longer than I have so he's not really a Newbie. |
Dennis, at the rate your'e going you'll make ultrasuperduper nomad in no time 
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fdt
Dennis, at the rate your'e going you'll make ultrasuperduper nomad in no time
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Yeah Ferna....I have a strong need to talk, as you can see.
Ferna...... How about the above idea of making a judge available? As I understand it, the police use that point, seeing the judge, as a hammer to
scare people into submission. They tell drivers that they will see him as soon as he returns from wherever he may be. His beach house in Peru or
whatever.
So, if you can take away the hammer, things would improve.
Am I being naive? It just seems to be a good idea. And the city couldn't cry poor on this one since it would be making money, probably enough to
pay for a raise in the police salarys.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by The Gull
Shame that a newbie expresses his opinion that his time is more valued than his cash and he gets swarmed by a pack accusing him of being guilty of
something and promoting graft & corrruption in Baja. |
And Barry A. said:
This is an interesting response-----"a value judgement", you say. Would someone like to respond to my post, or the logic behind it, and explain how
this is a "value judgement"? I just don't get it, I guess.
I say again, "IF NOBODY PAID MORDIDA, THERE WOULD BE NO MORDIDA"------that is not a "value judgement", it's a FACT, it seems to me.
[Edited on 11-12-2007 by Barry A.] |
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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-----and I obviously do not know how to use the "Quote" function of this board-----
the immediate above "Quote" is NOT a statement by Dennis, it was made by ME. Sorry Dennis.
barry
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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That's OK Barry.......I can't remember for more than thirty minutes what I've said.
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