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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
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Was this my LAST trip to BAJA?......
Went down to see the Baja 1000 .... (crossed Monday about noon and returned Tuesday about 5 pm)....This year I skipped the contingency as I didn't
want to leave the truck/camper parked in Ensenada....saw the motorcycle cop waiting on the downhill section near border for his next victim...got home
and started reading all the stories about theft/hijacking and all the rest.....remembered the problems for surfers (been going to Cuatro Casas for
many years) .....you know , I am just wondering if there is just too much at risk now....never had thoughts if it was unsafe to travel before but
now....I do worry.....
Just wondering if that was the last trip?....
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
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Mood: Wondering what is next???
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I don't think so Jim...we all need to try and affect this situation of the government ignoring the gringo...we need to stay home for awhile or do not
stop in Baja Norte...period.
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
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Write some e-mails or send letters to the people who can effect change in Baja California. gnukid added some addresses in a post he made in a thread
called "action." Heck write to the President of Mexico too.
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cpg
Nomad
Posts: 262
Registered: 4-10-2006
Location: Livermore, Ca.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
I don't think so Jim...we all need to try and affect this situation of the government ignoring the gringo...we need to stay home for awhile or do not
stop in Baja Norte...period. |
It would be nice if you did not have to stop there.
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bajablake
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 11-26-2007
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I was wondering if anybody was going down during the upcoming holidays and would like to caravan through the first 100 - 200 miles together. Most of
the attacks seem to pick on single vehicles, but if there were a small group of vehicles, I think that would be the most effective deterrent. What
do you think?
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805gregg
Super Nomad
Posts: 1344
Registered: 5-21-2006
Location: Ojai, Ca
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I agree with Al. They will get the message.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Perhaps its difficult to understand, there is an inherent dislike of north americans for stealing the land of mexico-california, new mexico, arizona
etc... and profiting. Many people in mexico have a knee jerk reaction that gringos deserve to lose something not unlike the antithesis, that
immigrants are stealing from north americans...
Don't argue the point, just accept you need to be on your best behavior, change the perception, make it clear you don't agree with imperialism and be
kind to others and make the point that crime hurts everyone. Try to be generous and kind and appreciate what mexico offers and you become a part of
the solution.
On the whole mexico is not violent like USA but it has problems with crime and corruption most of these things can be avoided by staying alert. Keep
watch, have someone awake watching your stuff and you won't be a victim.
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
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Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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gnukid, I agree kindness in any country is what people should be showing towards each other. Further, there is crime in every country but crime is
really getting out of hand in Northern Baja. Additionally, corruption is tolerated more in Mexico than the U.S.A., this is due to the long history of
it and is something everyone expects. Anyone that has a better living standard is always envied by those with little or none and that is the way it
is. People in parts of Asia and Africa would envy those in Mexico like Mexico does the U.S.A.
Now, history is history and fighting wars and taking from the loser was always the way it was through out the world. Mexico took from Spain and
France and United States took from all of them and the England too, as the United States was always better at fighting and in winning wars. Just the
way it was and that was many years past, so those that do not want to forget it just need to get over it. Just having the land does not make it what
it has become, as it was the American way of life that made it happen along with hard work. Americans are the most generous, helpful, caring,
motivated, innovative, religious and brightest inventors that ever were. However, we are also a fighting group of people if messed with. We also
quarrel among ourselves but when attacked of harmed we always pull together as one. You can not make this happen, it just is what it is. That is why
everyone want to come to America.
I choose to go into Baja and Mainland Mexico because I like it but I do not have to go. I have many areas in the U.S.A. that makes my world spin just
as Mexico does, so I hope Mexico gets a handle on what is happening to Americans and makes it stop. Remember when tourists from other countries were
being targeted in Florida and how fast we go on it and arrested the gang members doing these terrible wrongs. Mexico needs to "get on it." Hope they
use special forces or undercover agents and get this crap happening to Americans resolved. I just feel so bad and sick for the terrible things that
have happened to people that were written about in these forums. Surfer Jim, I have not taken my last trip yet but I will keep a close eye and be
super careful when traveling in Mexico. Later==========bajafun777
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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Knukid you seem like a nice guy. But some of your posts are a little confusing.
Your right about the being on your best behavior though.
But the part of the USA stealing the land from Mexico is just a myth.
A myth create in Mexico to empower the peasants with victimhood. Because if you percieve yourself as some kind of victim then you can justify your
crimes against the perceived aggressor.
The mexican people are experts at this. This is usually how they whip themselves up into a frenzy for a rebellion. Just like the are rebelling against
the US laws right now. They justify it because they are some kind of victim.
If you think you have a legitimate grievence against the USA then take us to court. That's how we do it in the civilized world.
But don't try to rationalise barbarian behavior with some kind of false victimhood.
We ain't buying any BS today.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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gibson
Banned
Posts: 250
Registered: 2-6-2007
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ha
where's that popcorn. Mennis / MRSBill / Skooter must be sleeping. (probably together) Time to grab an extra coating of butter.
Way to go Pablo. This should be good.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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I didn't say that it was a justified conclusion, that the US stole land from Mexico and therefor robbing tourists is justified, only that many people
across both borders are poorly educated and many carry prejudice which is the justification for their own poor behavior which may come as a shock.
I studied US/Mexican history, I wrote curriculum for US schools. I know the history of US/Mexico. I consider our countries to be interconnected highly
dependent people not enemies of war.
I simply meant to point out that it appears that few people may understand the extent of prejudices against North Americans on the part of others, and
vice versa albeit often unjustified. It has taken me a long time to understand the level of whacked prejudicial thinking by many of higher education
let alone those with little or no education.
Its not easy to overcome this way of thinking, because its difficult to talk about.
In Mexico and in California, many of my friends are post graduate level and they even have rationalization for the poor treatment of visitors. I spend
time every day confronting it politely and vice versa.
As I talk with people who rob and steal and those that fail to enforce laws I hear the echo of the same sentiment, that of victimization as
justification for ripping off gringos.
I think that by discussing the prejudice and being aware of prejudice as common, we may be better equipped to overcome it and work together.
p.s. Tuna are biting in the Bay of La Paz and the auto mechanics are great.
[Edited on 11-27-2007 by gnukid]
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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I think you give to much credit to abstract thinking about why there is a prejudice. The simple fact is that we come to Mexico with our toys and way
of life and some extra money in our pockets and if does not take a rocket scientist to see the discrepency. That same feeling happens all over the
place. Where I lived in Colorado while going to college we were invaded by "rich Texans" who certainly had the money to vacation and probably did not
live a much different lifestyle than we did but it sure seemed like it at the time and we could attribute all kinds of ills to this "invasion" from
lack of trout biting to killing off all the elk. Then in northern Colorado we were "invaded" by the rich Californians who had sold their houses in
California and came to Colorado to "buy up all of our land". This is not too different from what is happening now all over Baja, we take our little
pile of money which would hardly make it very long back home and we come to a third world country and try to keep our head above water. So when you
are on the bottom looking up it is pretty easy to generalize about the "evil empire" coming to take your land. We have Mexican/American neighbors and
they feel the same way about them as they have the nicer house, with a clean yard, and a newer vehicle. It is an overgeneralization but the tendency
is there to look on people who have a somewhat better lifestyle as crooks, shysters, or some type of con-man gone bad cause they have more and at the
very worst, talk funny.
So you are right that things change slowly when communication takes place and our neighbors get to know us but that has little effect on the larger
crime issue but I think you are right that it may have some effect on the small petty crime issue. In other words I think someone may use the
prejudice issue to justify taking small items but when it comes to the carjacking and assault, that level of criminal mentality could care less about
any such justification, it is simply a matter of finding a victim with the least amount of effort and threat to yourself. At that point you are a
nameless, faceless victim who has something that they can turn to their advantage and no amount of "love thy neighbor" is going to change that at all.
The only way that the highjackings and assaults will change is when the police or government enforces the consequences consistently and persistently.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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Great post Pescador - I too remember the rich Texans coming to Colorado and getting all the good elk and trout. Also the California's arriving and
buying up the farms etc. for way too high prices and changing laws and trying to institute customs that we weren't used to. Just take over some
small towns.
I'm sure that's what a lot of locals see as the invasion from the north continues.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64721
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Also, if the United States hadn't won the Mexican War, (and also paid for California and the other SW states), how much farther Mexicans would have to
travel for good paying jobs?!
Alta California being in the United States is a MUCH bigger benifit to Mexico than if it was still part of Mexico.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64721
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by surfer jim
Went down to see the Baja 1000 .... (crossed Monday about noon and returned Tuesday about 5 pm)....This year I skipped the contingency as I didn't
want to leave the truck/camper parked in Ensenada....saw the motorcycle cop waiting on the downhill section near border for his next victim...got home
and started reading all the stories about theft/hijacking and all the rest.....remembered the problems for surfers (been going to Cuatro Casas for
many years) .....you know , I am just wondering if there is just too much at risk now....never had thoughts if it was unsafe to travel before but
now....I do worry.....
Just wondering if that was the last trip?.... |
Give it some time Jim... it will improve...
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castaway$
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-31-2007
Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Fish on!
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If you look like you have money somebody else is always going to want it, whether it's Mexico, USA or any other place. Tone down your outward
appearance and you will be less of a target.
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larry
Nomad
Posts: 233
Registered: 8-22-2005
Location: Orinda, CA
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It is nice to read a thoughtful discussion about historical origins of social and political attitudes (as opposed to the insults that are traded
elsewhere in this forum).
I question, however, the assumption here that Baja has become dangerous for gringos. Maybe this is true, but I tend to think that it is not. It
seems that the natural tendency is to post horror stories here, just as those type of stories tend to dominate the news media in any locality in the
world. Normal, peaceful everyday life is what we all expect and it generally isn't reported in the newspaper or on this board.
So here is my firsthand experience. Since 2000, I have camped every winter on the Sea of Cortez in Gonzaga, Bahia de los Angeles, north of San
Felipe, and visited Mision San Borja, Bahia Las Animas, and other spots in Northern Baja. I have stayed at motels in San Felipe and Ensenada and
stocked up on supplies in Mexicali, San Felipe and Ensenada. Each trip lasted about 10 days.
Overall, I had a great trip each time, witnessed no crimes of any kind, was not stopped by the police, was treated in a friendly manner at all
military checkpoints, and was helped by two young men once when I got stuck in sand by the roadside in BOLA. That's it.
I don't dispute that other people have had bad experiences. Most of the time these experiences are real and unprovoked crimes. I imagine that once
in awhile they are a result of cultural misunderstandings. But that aside, hearsay reports on this forum do not necessarily mean that there is a
crimewave against gringos in Baja.
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surfer jim
Super Nomad
Posts: 1891
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: high desert
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Well....if (or when) I was to go back I will be making some major changes....
night driving....I used to drive a LOT at night (less traffic)....late night TJ crossings......never a problem....that has to change....
downsizing....love my new truck and camper but would go back to older truck with shell.....new truck is too high profile and screams "GRINGO" ....old
truck fits in better....(going to miss the comfort factor!)
Will wait and see I guess....
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jimgrms
Senior Nomad
Posts: 664
Registered: 9-30-2005
Location: oceanside ca
Member Is Offline
Mood: its always good
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i seem to recall post about beheadings shootings hijackings dishonnest cops and other sundry mishaps , so i also wonder if Baja is safe . there
are lots of good folks down there who are friendly and honest and make thier livelyhood from tourist,and i am sure they are raising hell about the
crime as it hurts them also ' but precious little is being done to solve the problem . as i am getting on in years i worry about traveling alone in
baja Jim
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Al G
I don't think so Jim...we all need to try and affect this situation of the government ignoring the gringo...we need to stay home for awhile or do not
stop in Baja Norte...period. |
Al G is right....
NEVER stop in Norte.
Never drive at night.
CaboRon
[Edited on 11-27-2007 by CaboRon]
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