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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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When will the people of Mexico take back their country?
Legalize guns.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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"unify and eradicate" ~~~~ Nice thought if the gangs didn't already have that idea. To organize against the drug business/gangs would be dangerous for
a community. Look what's happening to the police and federal troops. And they are armed. It would be a start to be able to trust the local authorities
so that one could call for help or report a crime without thinking you may be asking for help from the head of the criminal gang. Just a thought.
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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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Trust the local authorties 
CaboRon
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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CaboRon That's my point
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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Organized crime was a lot more peaceful. And.........
"A Government Accountability Office (GAO) report (pdf, 1.2mb) on US-Mexico cooperation to stem the flow of drugs into the United States finds that the
flow “has not abated, and interdiction efforts in Mexico have seized relatively small quantities of the illicit drugs estimated to be transiting
through or produced in Mexico. Moreover, drug related corruption persists throughout much of Mexico, and Mexican DTOs (drug trafficking organizations)
have increasingly become a threat in Mexico, which has seen an increase in drug related violence, and expanded their presence throughout much of the
United States.”
The United States, in fiscal years 2000 to 2006, provided more than $7 billion in counternarcotics support to Latin American governments, including
approximately $5 billion to Colombia and $397 million to Mexico, according to the report. GAO notes “some progress” over that time on cooperative
US-Mexico efforts to counter money laundering and foster extraditions, as well as greater transparency in Mexican criminal trials, and some
improvements in drug interdiction capacities. Still, the report says Mexican DTOs “operate with relative impunity in certain regions of Mexico,
including areas along the U.S.-Mexico border. Mexican DTOs have also expanded their illicit drug business to almost every region of the United States.
According to cognizant U.S. and Mexican government officials, Mexican DTOs have become increasingly sophisticated and violent in their activities.”
http://govdocsblog.kentlaw.edu/wordpress/?p=114
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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As long as there is the demand for drugs in the USA, Mexico (or any other country) has little chance of stopping the drug movement. The demand will be
filled and money made.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
Is it possible for the people of Mexico to get rid of the government/drug runners and the thieves that has destroyed the middle class over the last
40-50 years?
Yes, the U.S. has an international reputation as a bully but Mexico has a reputation as a third world haven for violent drug runners.
Will they root out and destroy the cancer in their communities?
The murder in El Rosario has only emphasized to me more how my shift away from eating at local places on our trips has changed to how I pretty much
bring all my food with me or catch it and shop at grocery stores to supplement what I have has been justified. This is really a bummer. I would think
the merchants would unify and eradicate.
Truly a mess with no easy answers. |
These things will take time but we have hope, we have to.
Last night the story about Ciudad Juarez was aired, and this morning too. Teachers have been threatened to fork over their aginaldos (holiday
bonuses) and also some have been told to instruct parents of the students to be prepared to pay a cuota (protection money) to thugs who have
threatened them. The news has likened it to Sicilian style mafia tactics. (History repeating itself a.k.a. Chicago during prohibition) After
several days of officials in Chihuahua dismissing this as rumor, the news has finally decided to report it. My theory is that they are reporting it
only because it is all over the internet. Here is a link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/18/teachers-mexico-...
thanks to the internet and the wide use of it throughout Mexico news like this can no longer be supressed as easily as it was in the past.
on another note the news is also reporting the return of thousands and thousands of mirgants from the USA due to the "crisis economico" in the USA. I
believe that these returning migrants are Mexico's greatest hope for change. It will happen. The people will only tolerate so much.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
When will the people of Mexico take back their country? |
Their country?
They just live here. Mexico is a mafia style oligarchy.
The Mexican people must first decide if they want an anti-corruption government. Otherwise, all you have is crooks arresting crooks.
That doesn't usually work well. 
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Mood: Mellow
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The only possible solution is to legalize drugs. Yes, I know, I have heard all the arguments. But like everything else in life, you weigh the pluses
and the minuses, and then act accordingly. And the obvious answer is to legalize drugs. Everything else has failed miserably. If the illegal
profits didn't exist, the illegal industry wouldn't exist. It seems so simple.
carpe diem!
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
The only possible solution is to legalize drugs. Yes, I know, I have heard all the arguments. But like everything else in life, you weigh the pluses
and the minuses, and then act accordingly. And the obvious answer is to legalize drugs. Everything else has failed miserably. If the illegal
profits didn't exist, the illegal industry wouldn't exist. It seems so simple. |
Legalizing drugs WOULD have worked a decade ago to stop the narco-crime. But, now that they have found HUGE success with extortions and kidnappings
for income- that would be their full-time jobs.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1593
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
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In Peru a few years ago the Shining Path guerillas were terrorizing the peasants and slaughtering whole villages in their campaign. The government got
smart and with the help of good old uncle sam made a huge purchase of Remington shotguns and distributed them. Hardly compares to an assault rifle or
poses no threat to the government, but is a great deterrent when in the hands of a whole village willing to defend themselves. This was a turning
point in their problem.
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Mood: Mellow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
Legalizing drugs WOULD have worked a decade ago to stop the narco-crime. But, now that they have found HUGE success with extortions and kidnappings
for income- that would be their full-time jobs. |
Hard to imagine that income from extortion/kidnapping approaches that from drugs, does anybody know?
carpe diem!
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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There is absolutely no way that the two can compare. Drug income is in the billions of dollars in a given year and it is a rare extortion or
kidnapping that approaches 1 million. It is more of a sideline that is followed by a group who really does not see much in the way of a threat from
the government. Kinda like a guy who is out everyday poaching a boatload of fish and he sees some wildlife on one of the islands and decides it
would be really easy to poach a deer or sheep for dinner.
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Martyman
Super Nomad
Posts: 1904
Registered: 9-10-2004
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Fighting violence with more guns is stupid. It is like going on a diet where all you eat is ice cream.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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"Illegal Profits" are Mexico's middle name
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Bondy
the obvious answer is to legalize drugs. Everything else has failed miserably. If the illegal profits didn't exist, the illegal industry wouldn't
exist. It seems so simple. |
1. For many consumable industries in Mexico there are mirror illegal counterparts and Mexico has a large 'off the books' economy.
3. Mexican law is seldom enforced and largely ignored.
4. The consumer will buy off the street rather than pay the exhorbitant taxes placed on legalized drugs.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
In Peru a few years ago the Shining Path guerillas were terrorizing the peasants and slaughtering whole villages in their campaign. The government got
smart and with the help of good old uncle sam made a huge purchase of Remington shotguns and distributed them.
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My wife lost 2 brothers to the Shining Path. That organization was very structured. It was founded by a single individual who was the heart of it.
Most of it's members were uneducated campesinos, native americans embittered by their place in society. Once Guzman was captured and jailed their
entire organization collapsed and soon ceased to be. This is not diminish the work of Fujimori as Peruvians were at the mercy of these people for over
a decade.
I don't think the drug cartel is as vulnerable and can be dealt the same way successfully.
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The Sculpin
Nomad
Posts: 401
Registered: 9-3-2002
Location: Back in the Saddle
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Mood: Riding into the Sunset, looking for a sunrise.
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Mexico is a country of silent resignations. The stranglehold of the catholic church doesn't help in this regard. If anything, it promotes it. Right
now, there is no country for the middle class to "take back" - it was never theirs to begin with. It always has been, and will most likely continue to
be ruled by a small number of rich families. In a perverse way, the narcos are actually a positive influence since they have shown that you don't have
to have deep family connections, light colored skin or european lineage to be rich! So I'll answer your question with another - what country do you
think they want back? If they do get it back, does their life change? How?
If this absurd war in Iraq has taught us anything, it would be a recognition that we have come a very long way in 230 years with our experiment in
democracy. It is very easy to forget the trials we went through to preserve it, and it is even easier to "wish" our democracy on others. Basically, it
'aint gonna happen. If there is a country to take back, it will be the wealthy ruling class that will take it back after deciding that drugs and the
drug business is no longer benefiting them.
Ah, all you populists really crack me up - bless your little hearts!
Whoa there, Cowboy - pull back on those reins!
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Don't put that in your pipe and smoke it, Back to the drawing board, But I thought, and then there was, whose going anywhere!!!!!!!!!!
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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You can't legalize drugs, at least the hard, addicting, heath destroying ones, that would be stupid.
But like I said in my earlier post, it sure was a lot more peaceful before the new administration's war on drugs, when the crime was organized and
controlled by the criminals.
The US military has a don't ask, don't tell policy about homosexuality. They don't condone it but don't actively seek out and prosecute either. A
blind eye.
At some point it MAY be the time for Mexico to turn a blind eye and let the drugs flow to the buyers to the north and leave the traffickers to their
business with the condition that the violence stops.
Maybe, I don't know.
How long do you fight a war before the fight itself becomes more of an enemy?
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Ken Bondy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3326
Registered: 12-13-2002
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Mood: Mellow
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
You can't legalize drugs, at least the hard, addicting, heath destroying ones, that would be stupid.
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You mean like alcohol?
carpe diem!
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