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DENNIS
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"GRINGO"---as an acceptable term
Wish me luck. I'm going to try to transport a lengthy hijacking out of the soccer thread to it's own home, then go back over there and do some
deleting.
My apologies for the hijacking. It will NEVER happen again. 
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LOSARIPES
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posted on 8-13-2009 at 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by woody in ob
yeah squid, the US sucks at football. when was the last time mexico beat spain and dominated brasil for 45 minutes back to back? i'll bet you a box of
your favorite beer that the US goes farther than mexico in the next "copa mundial".
enjoy the win.
what is gonna happen IF the US ever wins in azteca stadium? i'll bet, double or nothing, that there will be blood in the streets...
bring on the REAL football season. CHARGERS FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!
edit:html code
[Edited on 8-13-2009 by woody in ob]
[Edited on 8-13-2009 by woody in ob]
Mexico spells with a Capital M... Aztec is also spelled with respect just as you spell "the US".
Anyway.... top brass US player Vs. the best of Mexico... 2-1 Mexico....!!! it looks like Mexico is back and as it is speculated, the US may go further
in the world cup but it is all just that: Speculation.
Under the new coach, Mexico has shown great improvement. It would have been a 3-0 US win a few months ago....
Good show... sorry for the gringos... oops!! should I say Gringos?
There will be more games... this is interesting.... that's what the game is all about
Aripes
God bless America
and Baja tambien
DENNIS
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posted on 8-13-2009 at 09:40 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by LOSARIPES
sorry for the gringos... oops!! should I say Gringos?
Since propriety is that important to you today, you shouldn't be saying either one.
On the other hand, we haven't had a "Gringo--as a derogatory term" thread here for a long time. Maybe it's due for a review.
You know where I stand.
LOSARIPES
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posted on 8-13-2009 at 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by LOSARIPES
sorry for the gringos... oops!! should I say Gringos?
Since propriety is that important to you today, you shouldn't be saying either one.
On the other hand, we haven't had a "Gringo--as a derogatory term" thread here for a long time. Maybe it's due for a review.
You know where I stand.
No offense intended. Gringo is pretty much a generic term w/o any intention other than to refer to anyone from US-American extraction... OK? see.. the
thing is that we can't use the term Unitesdstatian.... (Estadounidense) and the only acceptable term is American... but American is everybody born in
the continent.... so... without intention to offend, the word Gringo come pretty handy. It is just that I'd say.
You are right. I have not read much about the origin of the term in this forum....
Aripes
God bless America
and Baja tambien
BajaGringo
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posted on 8-13-2009 at 10:33 AM
Dennis - you and I need to have a face to face about this Gringo obsession. I'll bring the Pacifico's...
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DENNIS
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posted on 8-13-2009 at 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by LOSARIPES
Gringo is pretty much a generic term w/o any intention other than to refer to anyone from US-American extraction...
Well...You know, of course, that we're just having a discussion here so, allow me to discuss your above statement.
The same "convenience" aspect can be applied to a list of labels on groups and used, not particularly for their original intent.
Wop...****...Beaner....Mick....Slope....Shine...just to name a few and in that list belongs the term, Gringo. None of these are terms of endearment.
They're all derogatory and the the weird fact that the term, Gringo, has become acceptible to the North American has always puzzeled me. It was a term
of revulsion when it was born [whenever that was] and in most cases retains that conotation.
Ask your Mexican friend and neighbor if you can find one who forget being gracious long enough to tell you the truth, if the term means anything like,
'loving wonderful friend." You'll see his eyes drift off into the thousand yard stare of confusion.
Gringo is a bad word. The lapse of pride in a people who would accept it as OK confuses me.
While we're on the subject of National identity which you brought up....it's wrong. Wrong to accept that "The United States Of America" is a misnomer.
It is argued that other countrys, Mexico in this case, are called The United States as well, therefore making our claim invalid.
America? The same lame arguement says it's all the Americas, therefore making our claim to that part of our name invalid as well. If those who spout
this crap had it there way, we wouldn't have a name for our country.
Now....tell me you agree with this and I'll go on to the next level.
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Osprey
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English speakers are right behind Mexicans when it comes to lazy language and on this one I blame nobody. Just have about 6 mango margaritas and try
to tell everybody about those lovable Estadounidoenses and the other extanjeros and see what happens to your tongue.
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Woooosh
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Latino? Chicano? Guero? Gringo? All non-specific and hard to take offense at IMHO. I once answered "American" as to my nationality and it was
quickly pointed out to me that South Americans and Latin Americans are "Americans" too. Don't sweat the small stuff, there's enough big stuff to
worry about.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
English speakers are right behind Mexicans when it comes to lazy language and on this one I blame nobody. Just have about 6 mango margaritas and try
to tell everybody about those lovable Estadounidoenses and the other extanjeros and see what happens to your tongue. |
That is exactly my point. Wait a minute...lemme think about this.
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
English speakers are right behind Mexicans when it comes to lazy language and on this one I blame nobody. Just have about 6 mango margaritas and try
to tell everybody about those lovable Estadounidoenses and the other extanjeros and see what happens to your tongue. |
No matter how many margaritas I have, I still can't roll my "rrrr's".
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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Taco de Baja
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It's only ok for gringos to refer to each other as Gringos. No one else should be allowed to; either behind our backs or to our stinking gringo
faces.....
Truth generally lies in the coordination of antagonistic opinions
-Herbert Spencer
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
Latino? Chicano? Guero? Gringo? All non-specific |
"Gringo" is purely specific in original intent. A despised foreigner. Original intent hasn't morphed much, if at all.
How about, "Frijolero?" If that's specific, will you tell me why? Is it acceptable? Do you use it?
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
No matter how many margaritas I have, I still can't roll my "rrrr's".
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Ahhh yes...the split-tounge effect. Another stereotype.
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tripledigitken
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Taco de Baja
It's only ok for gringos to refer to each other as Gringos. No one else should be allowed to; either behind our backs or to our stinking gringo
faces..... |
Just like the tradition of Blacks calling themselves the "n" word, but it's verboten if you are white.
Ken
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Bajahowodd
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Since three countries occupy the continent of North America, we need to be more careful as to how we identify them. Clearly Canada stands by itself as
being one of the countries of North America. However, we tend to misidentify the other two. Such as when we identify the United States, either as just
that or as just America. The official name of the Southernmost country of North America is Los Estados Unidos de Mexico. Thus, when referring to the
United States, we could theoretically be referring to Mexico. Now that I've bored the crap out of you, personally, I find the term gringo to be a
generic reference to someone who is from North of the border. I imagine, then that the Gringo Gazette is a major offense to all?
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BajaGringo
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Dennis - it is an issue that is very difficult for many to understand based on their cultural roots. I used to agree with your basic stand on the term
but after decades of living in Latin America I came to see the issue quite differently. By the way - that happened before I ever made it to Mexico. I
came to this opinion while still living and working in South America...
In the Latin culture they put names to everyone and call you as they see you. Fat, skinny, tall, short, young, old, handsome, beautiful, ugly, lame,
blind, deaf, black, white etc, etc, etc. Within Mexico they often call you a name based on where you are from - Mexico City - "chilango", Nayarit -
"Cora", etc etc. All of these terms can be used in a hostile/non-hostile way. It really depends on the how and where they are used.
I have many close and dear friends throughout Latin America that I have known for over 35 years. Many of them even made the long trip to be by my side
in the last days of my young daughters life as she laid in a coma in a Los Angeles hospital. They, along with my wife and her family all call me
Gringo. In this group are well educated, professional and working class alike.
Either it can be used as a term no differently than guero or chilango or I am surrounded by hundreds of folks I "thought" really loved and cared for
me when in fact are hostile and resentful of me.
If the latter is the case I guess I need to have a heart to heart tonight with my wife...
One thing I have noticed though is that many here in Mexico are aware that some Gringos do take it as an offensive term and try to avoid at all costs
using it in front of them. But they do at home and with friends and contrary to what you may believe, it is not always meant in an offensive way.
I base that opinion on over 35 years of life experience living, working and assimilation into the Latin culture as well as Spanish language fluency.
This is not just a Mexico thing - this is prevalent throughout Latin America although in parts of South America it is more common to hear the term
'yanqui" (yankee).
Dennis - you are one of my most favorite people to disagree with!!!
[Edited on 8-13-2009 by BajaGringo]
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I imagine, then that the Gringo Gazette is a major offense to all? |
Yes. The name always reminded me of a concession to national pride, of which we have very little.
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Bajahowodd
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There is a measure of one's individual sensitivity as well as political correctness that will affect how one feels accepting what may be a term of
endearment or a slur, depending on perspective. I wonder how many caucasians bristle when being called honky? Doesn't bother me. That term, by the
way, morphed from a derogatory term used by Western European heritage Americans as an epithet for Bohemians and Hungarians. It is said that blacks
first heard it used in meatpacking plants in Chicago, and ultimately adopted it for all caucasians.
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Russ
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["Gringo" is purely specific in original intent. A despised foreigner. Original intent hasn't morphed much, if at all."]
My observation is that US white folk use the "Gringo" term a lot. But when
I'm one of few or the only Gringo in a group of Mexicans many are visibly shocked when I let the word slip. The Mexicans that are around "us" more
take it in stride but seldom use the word. As a kid we used Gringo a lot and meant no disrespect to one another. Never thought about it's origin.
Maybe like blacks using the "N word" being OK in a black group but not for others to use. So if a Mexican you're not familiar with uses it
that's probably not a compliment.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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ELINVESTIG8R
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I like it when I'm called Gringo Culo Prieto.
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BajaNuts
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more discussion of the same-
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=35747#top
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
Dennis - you are one of my most favorite people to disagree with!!!
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Thanks, Ron. I'm fine with it although, and this is for your benefit, if you're going to equate the term "Gringo" with "Chilango", you have made
my point more clearly than I'm able to do. Throughout Mexico, with the exception of DF, there is probably no word that coaxes so much revulsion as
Chilango and my point is that all these terms arn't just playful labels. Some of them actually are spoken with emotion. Chilango is definitly a word
that is suited for a select audience lest you be in front of one. Then, it's the major insult.
Why accept an insult just because the whole country is giving you one? I don't understand.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
Never thought about it's origin. |
Actually unknown. Theories say perhaps, from the war..."Green Grow the blah blah"....The San Patricios fighting for Mexico. Other stories....The
Term "Griego"...Greek for foreigner. Nobody knows for sure.
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BajaGringo
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Yes, it can be used with emotion and meant as derogatory but that doesn't mean it always has to be taken that way. You can use the simple term
"Mexican" and based on your intent, facial expression and tone of voice indicate two very different things.
I worry more about what is in someone's heart than the terminology they use as lingo across culture divides has become so blended and blurred over the
past several decades. Some of the most polite and well mannered people in life will smile and greet you graciously as they secretly hold a knife in
their other hand, behind their back.
I have met a few recently, on both sides of the border.
But no worries Dennis - I will still bring the (ice cold) Pacifico's...
[Edited on 8-13-2009 by BajaGringo]
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LOSARIPES
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Well,let's see.... you say that the word gringo belongs in the same list as beaner, wop, etc. No. I don't think so. I have not come across any Mexican
that would call himself a beaner. Anybody else calling him a beaner is in for an exchange of other type of adjectives. On the other hand, I do know
several US citizens who call themselves Gringos and have no apparent problem doing so. The term Gringo and Beaner are worlds apart.
So allow me please to say, with what I consider just cause that you are wrong. The word does not mean "I love you". Granted, but the offense -if any-
is in the perception of the person addressed, more than in its literal meaning.
Literal meaning... well... here is something really interesting:
From www.reference.com
Gringo (feminine, gringa) is a Spanish and Portuguese word used in Latin America to denote foreign non-native speakers of Spanish (regardless of
race), especially English-speakers from the British Isles, and Americans, Canadians, Australians, and New Zealanders, as well as some other Latin
Americans.
Hispanophones disagree whether or not gringo is derogatory. The American Heritage Dictionary entry classifies gringo as "offensive slang", "usually
disparaging", and "often disparaging". The usages of gringo sometimes are derogatory, paternalistic, and condescendingly endearing, especially when a
foreigner condescends to the people and culture he or she is visiting. The enunciation of the word communicates connotation, insult or not. Like many
derogatory terms, gringo has been co-opted; drummer Randy Ebright, of the band Molotov, dubbed himself El Gringo Loco (The Crazy Anglo).
Meanings
* The Anglosphere: Latino migrants to the USA occasionally use the term as a more derogatory synonym of Anglo.
* In Central America, the word is not pejorative. In Cuba, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica the term refers to U.S. citizens. In the
Dominican Republic it also means a non-free range store bought chicken (pollo gringo). In Puerto Rico, the term refers to U.S. citizens in the U.S.
mainland.
* In the countries of South America where this term is used, the word is not pejorative. In some countries it may be used to refer to any
foreigner who does not speak Spanish as a native language, or in Brazil, someone who does not speak Portuguese as a native language, but in other
countries it is used just or especially to refer to U.S. citizens; it may also be used to describe a blond or brunette white native person with soft
facial features and light colored eyes. For instance, it is a popular nickname.
o In Uruguay and Chile, apart from being used to refer to citizens of the United States, it can be applied to European people; particularly
those who conform to the physical stereotype (blond hair, blue eyes, fair skin).
o In Peru the word gringo is used all over the country among white and non white population. It is used to refer White people. It is not
pejorative.
o In Ecuador the word gringo can be used to refer to foreigners from any country, not only the United States, though the likelihood of being
described as a gringo increases the closer one's physical appearance is to that of a stereotypical northern European.
Etymology
Folk etymologies
There are many popular but unsupported etymologies for this word, many of which relate it to the United States Army in some way or another.
Mexican-American War
A recurring etymology of gringo states that it originated during the Mexican-American War of 1846-48. Gringo comes from "green coat" and was used in
reference to the American soldiers and the green color of their uniforms (U.S. Army uniforms of the time were blue). Yet another story, from Mexico,
holds that Mexicans with knowledge of the English language used to write "greens go home" on street walls referring to the color of the uniforms of
the invading army; subsequently, it became a common habitual action for the rest of the population to yell "green go" whenever U.S. soldiers passed
by.
These explanations are unlikely, since the U.S. Army did not use green uniforms until the 1940s, but rather blue ones, and after that brown (early
20th century including World War I).
Another assertion maintains that one of two songs – either "Green Grow the Lilacs" or "O Green Grow the Rushes" – was popular at the time and that
Mexicans heard the invading U.S. troops singing "Green grow..." and contracted this into gringo.
Another hypothesis maintains that the U.S. troops, during the Mexican-US war were looking for the green grass (Marihuana) which may be misunderstood
by the Mexicans as "gringo"
However, there is ample evidence that the use of the word predates the Mexican-American War.
Other "green" derivations
In the Dominican Republic it is said that the term was a mispronunciation of the words "green gold", referring to the green color of U.S. currency, as
well as the corruption of the exclamation: "green go!", said to have voiced local opposition within the volatile context of both U.S. military
interventions to the Island. Another interpretation makes a generalized character judgment of U.S. citizens: "they see 'green' (money) and they 'go'
(after it)".
"Greek" hypothesis
According to the Catalan etymologist Joan Coromines, gringo is derived from griego (Spanish for "Greek"), the archetypal term for an unintelligible
language (a usage found also in the Shakespearean "it was Greek to me" and its derivative "It's all Greek to me"). From referring simply to language,
it was extended to people speaking foreign tongues and to their physical features — similar to the development of the ancient Greek word
βάρβαρος (bárbaros), "barbarian". Still, scholars are not in agreement about the correct origin of this word.
Brazil
In Brazil, the meaning and use of gringo differs significantly from the Spanish-speaking Latin American countries.
Etymologically, the word is documentedly not native to European Portuguese language and is actually borrowed from Spanish since the 19th century at
least. Thus the Greek reference is reinforced there as the word "grego" for Greek in Portuguese (without the "i") would not have given "gringo". Also
in Brazilian or even Portuguese popular culture, someone unintelligible is traditionaly said to speak Greek (sometimes German or, much more recently,
Chinese).
This is also reflected in that the word usage is not naturally widespread and only generally in regions exposed to tourism like Rio de Janeiro. There,
the word means basically any foreigner, North American, European or even Latin American, though generally applying more to any English-speaking person
and not necessarily based on race or skin color but rather on attitude and clothing. The word for fair skinned and blond people would be rather
"Alemão" (i.e., German).
Other uses
In Mexican cuisine, a gringa is a flour tortilla taco of spiced pork (carne al pastor) with cheese, heated on the comal and then served with a salsa
de chile (chile sauce). The explanation of this particular platter refers to a pun : A "gringa" is a "taco al pastor", but white (flour tortilla
instead of corn tortilla) and with cheese in it, but has the same pork on the inside as regular "taco al pastor". This meaning that gringos (anglos),
may look different on the outside, but are basically the same on the inside.
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Going back a little: "Hispanophones disagree whether or not gringo is derogatory"... so there.... there is disagreement.... but that is good. What
is not good is that you feel offended. I did not mean to do that. My apologies if I did.
Further.... you say that it is wrong to accept that the term American is a misnomer. What is it then? I don't say what it is. It appears that you
labeled it as such and now you turn around and try to blame me. I am not saying that it is a misnomer but if it isn't, than you tell me what it is. It
is as if a Mexican had traveled to Europe and decided to settle in say.... England and calls it Joselandia. All of Europe is Joselandia, but only
himself can be called Joseland. The French is French, the German is German. That's pretty much what happened with the US. The US lacks a name.... oh
my god!!! the US has no name..as you -again- suggested and invited me to disagree for further admonishing...... ... Americo Vespucio had no
idea....... Mexico official name is Estados Unidos Mexicanos and also, has a name as Mexico.Mexico city is Tenochtitlan..... with history, pride and
heritage and reason for its name. What about the US? It seems like the name US of America only describes the country but does not give it a name.. is
that why the US decided to appropriate America as its own name?... well sorry.... that was taken already... google up for another one.
Anyone can see that there is a little problem here.... on the other hand... you could accept the Baja Gringo invitation and discuss it face to
face... Pacificos are hard to resist anyway....
Humbly,
Aripes
God bless America
and Baja tambien
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