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GeoRock
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Registered: 3-7-2003
Location: Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Interesting Baja Article
Here's the link:
http://www.viamagazine.com/top_stories/articles/mexicos_wild...
Has some interesting info in the write-up.
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JZ
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Copper Canyon
"The overland, rail leg of this trip on the rather grand South Orient Express commences at Los Mochis on the mainland side of the Sea of Cortez. The
destination, 200 miles to the east, is the rim of the Copper Canyon?a section of North America's largest canyon system. The larger system of canyons
that holds the famed Barranca del Cobre is actually the convergence of many deep gorges, cut by rivers such as the Urique, Tara-r?cua, and Batopilas.
Four of the many gorges are deeper than the Grand Canyon and together are considerably more extensive in volume.
Travelers whose experience allows them to compare say that the train ride into these highlands is one of the most spectacular to be had anywhere. With
mountain walls closing in, the train climbs about 8,000 feet from the sea, ascending through 87 tunnels and across some of the world's highest
bridges, making sharp, sometimes 180-degree switchbacks. Along the way are glimpses of spectacular canyons?the Septentri?n, Urique, and Tarar?cua.
Then the Copper?named not for its minable minerals (which were gold and silver) but for the colors of its walls. "
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wilderone
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Have made two Copper Canyon trips - easily doable without commerical "assistance". Highly recommend it - all the hype is true - and then some. A bus
ride and overnight (or 2 nights) stay in Batopilas is a must. The hotels along the rim of the Copper Canyon outside Divisidero are magnificent, but a
bit pricey - $100-$200+, but actually worth it. Other rooms (Creel, Batopilas, El Fuerte) are available from $10-35.
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Neal Johns
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I have led three, free, 4wd trips (for the Barstow Museum Desert Explorers) to Copper Canyon, then west to Alamos, with stops at (in order):
Casas Grandes (Paquime ? ancient Indian ruins)
Colonia Juarez (Mormon colony)
Mata Ortiz (Pottery and potter Juan Quesada)
Valley of the Caves (Cave of the Olla)
Arroyo de los Monos (petroglyphs)
Madera area archeological sites
Basaseachic Falls (big!)
Creel (heart of the Copper Canyon area)
Cusarare Falls
Batopilas (bottom of canon ? Silver!)
Satevo Mission
El Divisadero
Urique (bottom of canon)
Temoris
Chinipas
Alamos (former Capital of Sonora)
See:
http://www.desertexplorers.com/tr-cucyn99/cucyn.htm
http://www.desertexplorers.com/ccfotos.htm
http://www.desertexplorers.com/patvirg.htm
http://www.desertexplorers.com/hughes.htm
When I was a few decades younger, I hiked from Batopilas to Urique. Never again.
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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JZ
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This place sounds awesome!
Is a 2-3 trip starting in San Carlos, Sonora possible. What would be a good itinerary and distances.
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Neal Johns
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JZ, get a Mexico map for distances, my trip (above) takes about 18 days from Southern California and return.
My motto:
Never let a Dragon pass by without pulling its tail!
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daveB
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Took the train about four months ago,
El Fuerte to Creel and back. Spectacular, both the scenery and the ride! Needed more time, though, did not get into the heart of the Baranncas del
Cobre. For that you need more time and a set of wheels. We were impressed by the excellent condition of the highways that do exist between the towns
and the Tarahumaras who live at high altitude in the area. We will return!
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GeoRock
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I have also taken the train: spectacular. And spent time in Creel and Batapilas.
I posted the article link as it has info on Baja, though I'm glad folks enjoy the Copper Canyon info as well.
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David K
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I am not sure of the year, but about 1963 my folks and I took the train to Los Mochis and back to Chihuahua or maybe Juarez... I think the railroad
was just completed and I recall lots of bridges, tunnels, and curves where you could easily see the front of the train from the rear. We hit a cow as
well, and that caused a delay. I hope I find the slides and will share them. I was about 6 years old, if it was '63.
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daveB
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Yes, David, the train is still a marvel, though no less so than the beauty of the route-high canyon walls, some lush areas of vegetation at lower
altitudes and when we rode, unbelievable flowering trees that literally carpeted the steep sidehills. At two or three sidings could be seen the RVs
driven onto flatcars in caravans of 15 or more, the owners sitting on lawnchairs in front or behind their rigs, taking it easy. Talked to one
gentleman who told us the price for joining the caravan, from Texas to Mazatlan, then north to Nogales, was $4 K. These days the train of five cars
including a dining car is slow, two engines pull up, coming back there is one; the best seat isn't a seat, its standing between the cars that are
gyrating in opposition, hang on! and keep a watch out for low branches and narrow tunnels if you're lucky to be by a door. We enjoyed El Fuerte as
well, saw no other tourists than ourselves while in town and by catching it there didn't have to get up so early!
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wilderone
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JZ - don't have a map with me, so not sure where San Carlos, Sonora is, but if you only have 3 days, you should get on the train at Creel, Divisidero
or El Fuerte (if starting in El Fuerte, you'd travel north and get off at Creel). The train from Creel to El Fuerte takes about 7 hours and you see
the most spectacular portion of the canyon. Spend the night, then take the train back - so you see the best part of the canyon twice. This would be
a minimum "quickie" train trip. If I remember correctly, I think a one-way first class ticket from Divisidero to El Fuerte was about $35.00. One
could easily stretch this into a two-week trip with their own car trying to see everything and really appreciate the area and its people as outlined
in Neal Johns' post.
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JZ
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Thanks
San Carlos is about 70 miles south of Hermosillo. It is right next to Guaymas on the coast.
Eyeballing a rough map, it looks like it is 150-200 miles from El Fuerte.
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Skeet/Loreto
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And the People are Great
1996 My Father-in -Law and his wife were on a Trip in the Canyon, stopped at Creel and were staying in a small Motel,where during the Night he had a
Stroke. he weighted about 225.
6 strong Mexicanos picked him up with his Mattress,loaded him in to the back of a Pickup,took him up a rough road to a small Airstrip,where a
Mexicano Pilot took out the Rear Seats, placed him there and flew him to the hospital in Chihuahua.
The people did not ask for Pay, only fuel money for the Airplane!!
Med-flight wanted $15,000 to go pick him up and Fly him to El Paso{only on a Valid Credit Card}
Take your time through the Canyon. It is sometimes referred to as the 8th Wonder of the world.
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust"
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Ken Bondy
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Lake Hidalgo
I used to fly into El Fuerte and spend some time at the nearby Lake Hidalgo Lodge (bass and dove). Anybody know if it is still operating?
++Ken++
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Barry A.
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MED FLIGHT PRICE???
Something is wrong with the Med-Flight price quoted for round trip El paso-Chihuahua city-El Paso. As an ex-commercial pilot, it should not have cost
more than about $500 to $1,500 max.. Somebody was really getting ripped off if they payed $15,000. But yes, the Mexicanos are great, I agree.
Chihuahua City is huge and has an excellent hospital, from what I understand.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Barry A
Yes Barry, that was the Quoted Price!
In another case in Loreto, my Friend had a Stroke and Sat on the Tarmac at loreto Airport for 10 hours waiting for Transport to Scripps in San Diego.
Investigation reveled that the Med-flight had been "Brokering" the flight around the Various Services for the Lowest Flight while my Friend lay on a
Streacher awaiting a flight from San Diego.
That was in 1997, I hope it has changed, my information still show that there is a $10,000 charged to your Insurance for that Service today. Does
anyone have any information that shows different?
If you are in Loreto, I still think it is better to go to Constitution as there are 3 very good Hospitals only 90 miles away!
Skeet/Loreto
"In God I Trust"
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Barry A.
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thanks Skeet
Amazing!!! Maybe I should get back into flying-----10 trips and I would have it made for the year, unless the Dr's. take it all. I am deffinitely
with you---I will take the nearest large Mexican hospital any time. I am way too cheap, and not that desperate, to give some airborne robber that kind
of dinero. Life is good---has been good, and I am ready for whatever, at my age.
Spent 11 days in, and around, the Copper Canyon complex several years ago, including the train ride from El Fuerte to Creel, and several days each at
Batopilas and Urique------what an amazing place, especially the diggins, the Satevo church, and old abandoned Hacienda at, and around, Batopilas.
The only down side were the pot-growers lurking all about , and their fancy vehicles. One incredible hotel at Tejaban, high on the north side of the
canyon of the Urique River, was a place to be remembered. We were the only guests staying there. No way a fancy hotel like that can survive without
subsidies------(reads "drug money", to me). The road into the hotel was a test in itself! Great area, and great people (other than the smugglers)!!!!
Thanks for your response. Barry
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Skeet/Loreto
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BarryA
One other place on your way down , try Los Alamos, about 30 miles off the main road to Los M0uchis. It is an old Silver mining Town, where many large
Homes are built and surronded by thick Walls.Very few Tourist except for a couple of Weeks in Jan, when they have a Great Music Festival{Artist from
all over the world}.
Skeet?Loreto
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jrbaja
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Barry
what was the attitude of all those smugglers growers you are referring to? Towards you as a tourist.
Were you ever asked about purchasing drugs or confronted by these guys?
And, is it still like that there? It has been famous for a growing region for years and it surprises me it is still happening, if it still is.
Seems like the fame would have brought in the soldiers. I sure run into them in some out of the way places.
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JZ
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What type of music Skeet.
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