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Pompano
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On This Day In History: "Chief Crazy Horse" - Black Hills of South Dakota
On this day in history - January 8th:
Not too long ago, I watched an epic old movie entitled "How the West was Won.", with James Stewart and a large cast other great actors...good
entertaining flick, but not entirely accurate history-wise, sooo...I offer 'this day in history' as a kind of rebuttal.
"How the West was ...Really... Won."
'CHIEF CRAZY HORSE'
A sketch of Crazy Horse believed to be accurate. It was drawn in 1934 by a Morman missionary interviewing Crazy Horse's daughter, who claimed it was
an accurate image
Crazy Horse (Lakota: Witkó (in Standard Lakota Orthography literally "His-Horse-Is-Crazy" or "His-Horse-Is-Spirited"; ca. 1840 – September 5, 1877)
was a Native American war leader of the Oglala Lakota. He took up arms against the U.S. Federal government to fight against encroachments on the
territories and way of life of the Lakota people, including leading a war party at the Battle of the Little Bighorn in June 1876.
After surrendering to U.S. troops under General Crook in 1877, Crazy Horse was fatally wounded by a military guard while allegedly resisting
imprisonment at Camp Robinson in present-day Nebraska. He ranks among the most notable and iconic of Native American tribal members and has been
honored by the U.S. Postal Service with a 13¢ Great Americans series postage stamp
On this day in history - January 8th, 1877:
On this day in 1877, Crazy Horse and his warriors--outnumbered, low on ammunition and forced to use outdated weapons to defend themselves--fight their
final losing battle against the U.S. Cavalry in Montana.
Six months earlier, in the Battle of Little Bighorn, Crazy Horse and his ally, Chief Sitting Bull, led their combined forces of Sioux and Cheyenne to
a stunning victory over Lieutenant Colonel George Custer (1839-76) and his men. The Indians were resisting the U.S. government's efforts to force them
back to their reservations. After Custer and over 200 of his soldiers were killed in the conflict, later dubbed "Custer's Last Stand," the
American public wanted revenge.
As a result, the U.S. Army launched a winter campaign in 1876-77, led by General Nelson Miles (1839-1925), against the remaining hostile Indians on
the Northern Plains.
Combining military force with diplomatic overtures, Nelson convinced many Indians to surrender and return to their reservations. Much to Nelson's
frustration, though, Sitting Bull refused to give in and fled across the border to Canada, where he and his people remained for four years before
finally returning to the U.S. to surrender in 1881. Sitting Bull died in 1890. Meanwhile, Crazy Horse and his band also refused to surrender, even
though they were suffering from illness and starvation.......
...from being forced to sustain themselves on ....Hmmm...Deep-fried pickles with ranch dressing?? Wha'the..?...opps,
sorry...must've mixed up some thread photos. 
On January 8, 1877, General Miles found Crazy Horse's camp along Montana's Tongue River. U.S. soldiers opened fire with their big
wagon-mounted guns, driving the Indians from their warm tents out into a raging blizzard.
A reasonable depiction of a Souix camp in 1870..except for the Louis Vuitton bag.
Crazy Horse and his warriors managed to regroup on a ridge and return fire, but most of their ammunition was gone, and they were reduced to fighting
with bows and arrows. They managed to hold off the soldiers long enough for the women and children to escape under cover of the blinding blizzard
before they turned to follow them.
Though he had escaped decisive defeat, Crazy Horse realized that Miles and his well-equipped cavalry troops would eventually hunt down and destroy his
cold, hungry followers.
On May 6, 1877, Crazy Horse led approximately 1,100 Indians to the Red Cloud reservation near Nebraska's Fort Robinson and surrendered.
Five months later, a guard fatally stabbed him after he 'allegedly' resisted his imprisonment.
In 1929, Henry Standing Bear, a Lakota elder, initiated the project to honor Crazy Horse by writing to the sculptor Korczak Ziólkowski, saying in
part, "My fellow chiefs and I would like the white man to know that the red man has great heroes, too."
The Polish-American sculptor had worked on Mount Rushmore in 1924 under Gutzon Borglum. Standing Bear and Ziolkowski scouted potential monument sites
together. Ziolkowski suggested carving the memorial in the Wyoming Tetons where the rock was better for sculpting, but the Sioux leader insisted it be
carved in the Black Hills, which are sacred to Lakota culture.
After making models, Ziolkowski started blasting for the monument in 1948 and began work on the Crazy Horse Memorial, a massive monument carved into a
mountain in South Dakota. Still a work in progress, the monument will stand 641 feet high and 563 feet long when completed.
Below: Having the finished sculpture depict Crazy Horse pointing with his index finger has also been criticized.
As in other cultures, using the index finger to point at people or even objects is rude and even taboo in Native American cultures.
The depiction has been compared by Native American spokesmen to a statue of George Washington holding an upraised middle
finger.
And all this work and tribute is because of what happened on This Day in History, January 8th, 1977.....
..."and YOU were there."
Remember that?..'and you were there'..at the end of his tv show about history. You were There, The 21st Century, Eyewitness to History, etc.
I liked 'Uncle Walter', too..and will plagiarize him fondly....
...even though he should have kept his personal political views....personal. 
[Edited on 1-12-2012 by Pompano]
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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Skipjack Joe
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Wow, that was one of your most interesting (to me) posts.
Let me ask you a dumb question, tough.
Why are the 2 states called N and S Dakota and not N and S Lakota?
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Barry A.
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If I remember correctly, "Dakota" is a mis-pronunciation of the work "Lakota"------in other words, a mistake. It came from the dividing up of the
"Dakota Territory" of which N. and S. Dakota were just a part of-----Montana and Wyoming were in the mix too, I believe.
Barry
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Pompano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
If I remember correctly, "Dakota" is a mis-pronunciation of the work "Lakota"------in other words, a mistake. It came from the dividing up of the
"Dakota Territory" of which N. and S. Dakota were just a part of-----Montana and Wyoming were in the mix too, I believe.
Barry |
Mmmm...Well, Barry...not saying you are wrong, just never heard of Dakota being a mispronunciation of Lakota. Dakota is a mulit-tribe Souix word for
'friend.' Oddly, Lakota means the same thing..or close enough..'allies'.
Bear in mind there are maybe 18,734 different Souix tribes!
Okay, okay..that's not true...but there were a helluva lot of them at Custers Last Stand...and in one tribe, they all spoke with lisps. 
By the way, that igeneral area SE Montana near the Little Big Horn is still a great place to explore with a metal detector. Just stay off the
restricted memorials and watch for the markers. I have a couple buttons, etc...and a howitzer.
Lakota ikce wicasa na ikce winyan kin hena ohinniyan wicunkiksuyapi kte lo..... from us to you.
[Edited on 1-9-2012 by Pompano]
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watizname
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Lisps??????????????? You freekin kill me sometimes. 
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Barry A.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
If I remember correctly, "Dakota" is a mis-pronunciation of the work "Lakota"------in other words, a mistake. It came from the dividing up of the
"Dakota Territory" of which N. and S. Dakota were just a part of-----Montana and Wyoming were in the mix too, I believe.
Barry |
Mmmm...Well, Barry...not saying you are wrong, just never heard of Dakota being a mispronunciation of Lakota. Dakota is a mulit-tribe Souix word for
'friend.' Oddly, Lakota means the same thing..or close enough..'allies'.
Bear in mind there are maybe 18,734 different Souix tribes!
Okay, okay..that's not true...but there were a helluva lot of them at Custers Last Stand...and in one tribe, they all spoke with lisps.
By the way, that igeneral area SE Montana near the Little Big Horn is still a great place to explore with a metal detector. Just stay off the
restricted memorials and watch for the markers. I have a couple buttons, etc...and a howitzer.
Lakota ikce wicasa na ikce winyan kin hena ohinniyan wicunkiksuyapi kte lo..... from us to you.
[Edited on 1-9-2012 by Pompano] |
Well, uhhhh, I was just shooting in the dark, sorta. It's been a long time since I went to school and studied such things.
I did have a long talk with Russell Means (AIM) once-----on top of TR Roosvelt's head in Mt. Rushmore, but he never actually revealed "da truth"
about that to me, so we arrested him and took him away. He is a very interesting guy, and very friendly, but we had a job to do.
"Lisp", huhhhh----who would have thunk it!!!
Barry
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tripledigitken
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Pompano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
If I remember correctly, "Dakota" is a mis-pronunciation of the work "Lakota"------in other words, a mistake. It came from the dividing up of the
"Dakota Territory" of which N. and S. Dakota were just a part of-----Montana and Wyoming were in the mix too, I believe.
Barry |
Well, uhhhh, I was just shooting in the dark, sorta. It's been a long time since I went to school and studied such things.
I did have a long talk with Russell Means (AIM) once-----on top of TR Roosvelt's head in Mt. Rushmore, but he never actually revealed "da truth"
about that to me, so we arrested him and took him away. He is a very interesting guy, and very friendly, but we had a job to do.
"Lisp", huhhhh----who would have thunk it!!!
Barry |
Ahh...Russel Means..who loves him? He does..who else?
Interesting, yes. Flim-flam intelligent, too. On the other hand, I won't relay any of the bad about him, because I know he has been determined
terminal with throat cancer, an illness I know well. I do wish him peace with his god.
To forgive is best..and hope we will learn from those days in the late 60's and 70's.
R. Means born into the Oglala Souix Nation, SD
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Barry A.
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I can't quite remember, Pomp-------was it Russell Means or Dennis Banks that was/is an occasional movie actor (Last of the Mohicans, etc.)??
Yes, they gave us (Fed. Ranger's) a lot of trouble with their American Indian Movement (AIM) back then, but I was always somewhat sympathetic to their
cause, and Russell knew it-----I was probably, as you say, "flim-flammed".
Never actually met Dennis Banks, tho (unless I have my story backwards-----(Dennis instead of Russell?).   
Barry
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Pompano
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Who knows, Barry?...I never even heard that Means was arrested at Rushmore ..and on one of the president's heads ...but then I was probably off on
some adventure and out of touch.
Dennis Banks was an Ojibwa and also an AIM member.
Yes, Means did get into a few movies...Last of the Mohicans was indeed one (and one of my favorites...not because he was in it, but because I can
throw a tomahawk ...accurately to about 30 feet. (Remember that Johnny Carson scene...wahoo!)
I have been extremely sympathetic to native indignities, causes, and problems all my life. My neighbors and friends where I grew up. I saw it first
hand and learned that un-asked and un-seen help, not sympathy or gifts, was the way to be a true friend.
[Edited on 1-9-2012 by Pompano]
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Barry A.
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I DO remember that "johnny Carson" scene--------a classic!!!!
Dennis and a few of his followers were camped out on TR's head in protest (over something, can't remember what) in violation of the Park
rules--------caused quite a stir among the good citizens, and especially the NPS folks who ran Mt. Rushmore. Our "special LE team" was called in to
rescue TR's head from these indignities since we were close by in BadLands Natl Pk handling a rampaging (not) motorcycle gang from Minn..
It was fun for everybody, but we did have to carry Russel off the Mountain physically, which was not so fun. He, of course, refused to cooperate, but
was in good spirits the whole time. He is very heavy!!! or was then. (about 1970)
I was aware of his recent problems-------not good.
Barry
(edited to change a date)
[Edited on 1-9-2012 by Barry A.]
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Packoderm
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A statue of George Washington flipping the birdie - I don't see a problem with that.
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Bob H
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Wow, good stuff Roger. We visited that monument a few years ago and it's just an amazing project.
More reading about Means here... good stuff...
http://biography.yourdictionary.com/russell-means
The SAME boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg. It's about what you are made of NOT the circumstance.
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Pompano
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Thanks, Bob...
in reply:
Chief Crazy Horse ......was a truly noble figure in Souix
history.
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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TMW
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The wife and I were at both Mt Rushmore and the Crazy Horse monument last September. Both good to see but was more impressed by the Crazy Horse
display. The feds wanted to take over the Crazy Horse site and finish it but the Indians in charge said no. Lots to see and do in the area.
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durrelllrobert
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
in reply:[/size]
Chief Crazy Horse ......was a truly noble figure in Souix
history. |
and so was Chief Sitting Bull
Bob Durrell
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Oso
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
Below: Having the finished sculpture depict Crazy Horse pointing with his index finger has also been criticized.
As in other cultures, using the index finger to point at people or even objects is rude and even taboo in Native American cultures.
The depiction has been compared by Native American spokesmen to a statue of George Washington holding an upraised middle
finger.
]
[Edited on 1-9-2012 by Pompano] |
Well, I suppose Custer may have considere him somewhat rude. Bumper sticker: Custer had it coming.
Anybody remember the song: "Please Mr. Custer, I don't wanna go"?
I was there in 1967. Looks like progress has been pretty slow.
PS; maybe Washington was saluting George III?
[Edited on 1-9-2012 by Oso]
All my childhood I wanted to be older. Now I\'m older and this chitn sucks.
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Skipjack Joe
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Custer's Last Stand
PBS has a segment coming up from "The American Experience" on 1/18 at 8PM that got good reviews.
I read it this morning. It's supposed to be from the viewpoint of the 2 captains(?) at Little Big Horn who didn't come to his rescue, but instead
chose to defend themselves.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/01/09/DDUU1MEGUU.DTL
P.S. I'm a big fan of Crazy Horse but not that monument for him.
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Pompano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
PBS has a segment coming up from "The American Experience" on 1/18 at 8PM that got good reviews.
I read it this morning. It's supposed to be from the viewpoint of the 2 captains(?) at Little Big Horn who didn't come to his rescue, but instead
chose to defend themselves.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/01/09/DDUU1MEGUU.DTL
P.S. I'm a big fan of Crazy Horse but not that monument for him. |
Igor, lets hope there is a forthcoming segment from the viewpoint of the aboriginals who had to defend themselves from President Jefferson's policies.
(Aha!..that might be some fiery subject matter for a separate
thread: US v.s. The Plains 'Indians'..The Final Solution?)
Not being a big fan of Crazy Horse monument will indeed put you in company with many Lakota, who say they resent this use of their ancestral lands as
much as they resent Mt. Rushmore.
Now I am going to explode some truth on you.
The real history of both these monuments is far different than the general 'facts' fed to the public.
If you have ever stayed at Mt. Rushmore for the evening presentation, you will know it is very patriotic.
In the evening presentation, the narrator emphasizes the four presidents' persistence amid hardship. It ends with a gathering onstage of the members
of the audience who were or are in the military. As they line up, with a patriotic hymn swelling and those four great faces lighted behind them, you
may feel a lump in your throat. It's no wonder that the year after Sept. 11, the number of visitors here increased more than 400,000, nearly 15%.
That symbolic power has made it "a very political place" since its beginnings, when the sculptor raised a small ruckus by choosing to include
Teddy Roosevelt along with the more venerated 18th and 19th century heroes Washington, Jefferson and Lincoln.
Actually, TR is my personal favorite president...for many reasons, not the least of which was the fact he thought the ND Badlands, where I was borne
and raised, was Paradise on Earth. Teddy was 'top shelf' and skulled a few US enemies around the wordl with his 'Big Stick'. Where are these heros
when we need them...like now??
For sure, Igor, many Native Americans agree with you....and do not like either monument...and believe both the Mt Rushmore and Crazy Horse sculptures
are desecrations of their sacred Black Hills.
These days, dissent more often comes from Native Americans who believe the sculptures should never have been undertaken in the first place.
It's pure irony that President Jefferson, of all presidents, is honored in the Mt. Rushmore sculpture in the heart of the
Lakota sacred Black Hills.
Jefferson was the US President who was most influential in developing policies to remove the Indians from their traditional homelands.
The native argument is simple and factual: An 1868 treaty with the U.S. government guaranteed that the Lakota could keep the Black Hills. But once
gold was found and confirmed in 1874 (by Lt. Col. George Custer), the U.S. government and prospectors grabbed the land back
and forced the Lakota elsewhere. Good old govenment...never let your word stand in the way of ...gold!.
And then Borglum's résumé poses another such challenge.
This fact may amaze and even disturb some. Mt. Rushmore sculptor, Gutzon Borglum, spent most of his 50s as ...'a major mover and
shaker of the KKK'.
Borglum: "Jews refuse to enter the mainstream of civilization, to become producing members of the world community . . . ") and other outrageous
behavior. (Improbably, some of his good friends were Jewish.)
Real History... can sometimes be a cruel realizaton of the facts...which are too often surpressed in our present day schools.
This is more 'real' history.
Mt Rushmore was originally supposed to honor western heroes, not presidents.
In 1924, South Dakota historian Doane Robinson invited Borglum to consider a monument to "Western heroes in the Black Hills."
Borglum, never one to aim low, suggested Robinson think nationally, not regionally. So...US presidents won out....and in 1927, with President Coolidge
on hand, drilling and demolition began.
And that ...is just part of the Real History.
Of course, I could be making all this up...just like a lot of history classes in schools throughout the world.
There's nothing like a good history lesson...as long it fits your agenda, right?
[Edited on 1-10-2012 by Pompano]
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wessongroup
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Good one Pompano ... thanks
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