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Osprey
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Baja Tourism - Growth
Some catch-words caught my eye recently in discussions involving tourism/growth, etc. in Baja California. Growth and sustainable development are two
tricky words in my view because there are vast differences on who needs what down here. Why people have congregated down here to form ranchos, towns
and cities is not always a given – some towns here and the U.S. live or die on event tourism while others are sustained at reasonable population
stability when the main highway passes them by.
Many U.S. retirees seek out those small places that don’t get or need much tourism and they hunker down there hoping that won’t change.
So allow me to pose a few questions: to those who already live in Baja California “How much growth from tourism would you like to see now and in the
future?”
To those who only visit: “How much growth from tourism would you wish for places you now enjoy visiting?”
“Anybody care to see less growth, less tourism, a reduction in both for where you recreate or live or visit?”
“Anybody know what Sustainable Development means?”
The place I settled in has a current population of 2000 souls. When I got here, in 1995, there were 1250 people in the village. Cabo Riviera and Cabo
Cortez promise they will bring 40,000 new neighbors close by in the near future. FONATUR is not involved so there’s a chance they will make good
starts but they might become the same or less sustained developments as the Loreto Bay Company and others who have unfinished projects just taking up
space.
I think if these new people were smart they would build a movie set building with about 200,000 sq. ft. and stick a huge COSTCO sign on it. Then we
would all become believers – after all it’s our de jour Field of Dreams.
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chuckie
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I am pretty opinionated on that. Many of us moved here, me 30 years ago, to get away from what people are trying to change Baja into.I see "gringos"
wanting rules on this and that, complaining about the way it is "if this were -fill in the blank-". this IS Mexico, Baja California Sur, and I love
it. Leave it alone, Mexico is a sovereign nation. Mexico, and Baja should be run by the Mexicans ,allowed to grow or shrink at its own pace...I dont
think the way the USofA is much of a role model, t
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Woooosh
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I'd really just like to see the existing tourist infrastructure recover to its 2006 levels. Hotels and Restaurants (and city coffers) need a few
years of profitable prosperity to restore jobs, re-open closed doors, repair infrastructure and make up for lost time. Growth comes five years after
the recovery, imho.
Baja Norte went through a huge economic downturn and loss of hundreds of expats. Dozens of large construction projects were abandoned. Maybe not the
best example for you. Recovery, then growth.
[Edited on 3-2-2012 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Osprey
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I was hoping the questions would spark some interest >>> first guy says "We don't need any more tourists, growth" another says "Everybody and
everything is suffering from lack of tourism and we need much more but we have to set the stage for them."
Wooshe, tell us the ways the lack of tourism along the border hurts you and your lifestyle, that of your gringo neighbors. Or is that even an issue
you wish to discuss?
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
I was hoping the questions would spark some interest >>> first guy says "We don't need any more tourists, growth" another says "Everybody and
everything is suffering from lack of tourism and we need much more but we have to set the stage for them."
Wooshe, tell us the ways the lack of tourism along the border hurts you and your lifestyle, that of your gringo neighbors. Or is that even an issue
you wish to discuss? |
I would, but your attitude really sucks.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Osprey
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No, I don't think so. There was a time that Mexican border towns were an effective magnet for tourists from the U.S.
It might be that they fell behind on infrastructure and tourism diminished. Hence your posit that they need to tighten that up now -- like every place
else on the planet they are cash strapped now. What you're helping me point to is the fact that the same lags are happening all over. I'm not
assessing blame, are you?
[Edited on 3-2-2012 by Osprey]
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Udo
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An example of a Mexican border town that grew out of tourism and evolved into one of the most beautiful cities in Mexico is Ciudad Juarez, just across
the border from El Paso. I visited that town frequently and loved the leather shops and glass-blowing shops. It was mind-blowing watching the glass
blowers making dining glasses, vases, flowers etc.
Now look at where the town is...almost a wasteland and arguably the least safe city in Northern Mexico.
TOURISM ANYONE?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
No, I don't think so. There was a time that Mexican border towns were an effective magnet for tourists from the U.S.
[Edited on 3-2-2012 by Osprey] |
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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Bajatripper
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Just an observation about La Paz and development.
It seems to matter little that we've been in an economic recession for some time now. In the past year we've seen three major grocery stores (at
least) open their doors, we've had two new movie complexes open for business and who-knows-how-many shopping plazas built. Rumor has it we will soon
have our own Cosco, too.
Yet, on the micro level, people everywhere are saying how much they are hurting. Beauty shops (my wife's business) for the most part report times are
hard and people I know who work in the tourism industry report the same.
It's obvious La Paz offers a very good business climate for a certain type of investors.
As for tourism development, Paceños would like to see more of it while the Americans I've talked to generally would like things to stay as they were
when they "discovered" the place. I'm sure the local opinion will change over time as we start losing access to our beaches to accomodate tourism
projects. One need only talk to a Mexican from Los Cabos to realize that.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
No, I don't think so. There was a time that Mexican border towns were an effective magnet for tourists from the U.S.
[Edited on 3-2-2012 by Osprey] |
Actually, if you were to read up on it, you'd find that many of the border towns were built by prohibition-era taxes on "sin tourism" (booze and sex).
A good indicator has been provided by Mcfez's recently-posted link to early post cards of Tijuana. If you look at the dates as the post cards (and the
size of Tijuana) progress, you'll see what I mean.
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=58561
Along the border of Baja, Governors Esteban Cantu and Abelardo Rodriguez used money generated from tourism to build the first significant
infrastructures in the region which allowed them to pursue industrial development later.
[Edited on 3-2-2012 by Bajatripper]
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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Osprey
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Tripper, thank you so much for giving us a first hand view of a key tourist city that has neither failed nor bloomed -- might be the reason you love
it so much.
La Paz owes its sucess to the millions of Mexican vacationers from the mainland who were very comfortable with the lack of infrastructure, the laid
back (to them) atmosphere that was a vacation from the hurryupandcatchup of D.F. Monterey, Tampico and Toluca. If you get them back, they will be the
kinds of visitors you want; smiles and pesos and two weeks to play.
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chuckie
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The "First Guy' never said that...Read it again...slowly...Let Baja become what it will become....in time
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Bajatripper
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Tripper, thank you so much for giving us a first hand view of a key tourist city that has neither failed nor bloomed -- might be the reason you love
it so much.
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If one considers the early predictions of what La Paz would be in terms of an international tourist destination, the city is considered a failure.
Back in the 1940s--when La Paz was the center of the southern peninsula's sports fishing tourism industry because it was the only place with a decent
airport--people had high expectations.
Here's what John Steinback wrote in The Log of the Sea of Cortez after visiting La Paz in 1940 "On the water's edge of La Paz a new hotel is
going up (the Hotel Perla), and it looks very expensive. Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful
poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a Floridian ugliness."
The city may well have lived up to expectations, save for a couple of factors (my theory)--the large number of pilots that emerged out of WWII and the
development of private aviation that resulted. In the past, such resorts required good roads or at least decent airports. But, with the take off of
private aviation and small planes, that was no longer the case. All that was needed was a dirt runway to get you to exclusive facilities built at
remote locations.
For La Paz, the future was changed when Abelardo Rodriguez Junior (son of the ex-governor of BC and ex-president of Mexico) came for a visit to La Paz
and saw the possibilities. He'd been trained as a pilot in the US during WWII and flew around Mexico and the US in his private war plane after the war
(which must have been a P-51 Mustang, to judge from its descriptions). He immediately realized what the southern peninsula had to offer after flying
around the region on his own. As a result, he opened the Las Cruces Resort, about 24 miles of bad road outside of La Paz and relied on airplanes to
bring guests down directly from Los Angeles. Once it was established that such an idea had merit, the Cape Region became the new focus for development
of international sports fishing resorts, much more exclusive than anything in the city.
And so it was that our city was spared "Floridian ugliness."
[Edited on 3-3-2012 by Bajatripper]
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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Pescador
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The interesting comparison is between Cabo San Lucas and La Paz. Cabo is the spot where people seem determined to drop huge amounts of money for a
very short time while surrounded by golf courses, restaurants, shopping centers, nightlife, and the like, while La Paz has developed a whole different
personality which seems more stable and richer. Of the two I certainly find La Paz much more to my liking and actually look forward to the times I
spend there. I probably make 5 or 6 visits a year to La Paz and end up doing some shopping, trips to the dentist or other medical, wonderful dining,
and what I would consider a great time. Cabo, on the other hand is not my cup of tea and I have spent less than 3 days there in the last 10 years.
I, much like Osprey, however, have chosen to live in a small Mexican village where I have a nice mixture of native Mexican people with a smattering of
Gringo influx and I find my heart rate rising every time I hear of another damn development project. So I may be guilty of "Close the Door Behind Me
Syndrome", but what attracted me to Mexico as my final destination was the tranquil lifestyle, fishing, and new cultural horizons. I may well have
been saved by the economic collapse just in the nick of time.
Because I have some very close ties to the Mexican community, one of the interesting points of discussion is why they don't move to places like Cabo
San Lucas to take adavantage of more opportunity for employment and the like. The usual answer is: Are you kidding that place is nuts and only if
there was nothing else available would I even consider it. Because they have some family members there, it is not like they are afraid of change or
something new, they actually have experience with the area and choose to live with a little more peace and tranquility.
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chuckie
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+10 Pescador!
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Bajatripper
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You are showing your age, Pescador. My research shows that older tourists tend to be the ones attracted to La Paz, while the younger crowd likes Los
Cabos more (exceptions being made for "residential tourists" many of whom like Los Cabos for it's more US-like facilities). The younger crowd often
complain that La Paz offers little in the way of night life. While there are plenty of places for Paceños to go after hours, there aren't the types of
places that cater to the "party hardy" foreign crowd here.
I agree with your take on Mexicans and Los Cabos. I have many Paceño friends who have moved down to Los Cabos for the economic opportunities available
there. Most of them don't care for the social ambience of Los Cabos, but do appreciate the greater economic opportunities the place offers them.
The Mexicans who most appreciate the tranquility of La Paz are Chilangos, former residents of Mexico City (at least those who aren't busy focusing on
the "provincialism" of the region and how backward we are over here).
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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Osprey
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Where do tourist dollars go? Let's follow the money a little ways. Here's an article I posted 5 years ago -- I think it is still on the mark, only the
names have changed.
How’s that Escalera Nautica
Sea of Cortez Project Workin’ Out for you?
Now It’s
“Wanted, rich people on airplanes”
I spent all morning looking for tourist spending statistics for Mexico. I also took a nice walk on the beach – should have walked farther, passed on
the search. The stats were all over the place. Shoulda figured. I used to be in the insurance business. Thank God I was never in the statistics
part of it. I do know one “statistics joke.”
Two insurance actuaries go deer hunting together. From their moving truck they spot a nice buck in a snowy field, stop to try a long rifle shot. The
first guy shoots and they see the bullet hit the snow 100 feet to the left. The other guy grabs the gun and says “you were way off, give me that
thing.”
He shoots and the bullet hits 100 feet to the right. The first guy says “we got him!”
The real joke is that there are no realistic, credible figures for tourist spending in Mexico (or anywhere else) because revenue reporting is flawed
or non-existent; averaging things like spending will get you in trouble fast.
Those of you who have vacationed in Mexico would be hard pressed to report to anyone how much you spent per day, per trip, etc. and those who took the
money did not follow you as you checked out, left the area, to make sure they had a good total. It matters little your mode of transportation, your
lodging costs or your length of stay. It also makes little sense, if you knew the exact daily expenditures, to try to average the daily expense rate
of $15,000 dollars of some Saudi Sheik with the beer and cerveza chump change squeezed out by the guy who sleeps on the beach and eats almost nothing
but triggerfish chowder.
Search engines peg the fly/drive pilgrim at $600 U.S. dollars to $700 U.S. dollars per day, cruise ship passengers (they say) spend between $50 and
$70 each per day per port of call.
So, for the purposes of this little essay on The Sea of Cortez Project, Cruise Ships, Water Taxis, and Piers I use a more realistic and manageable
paradigm:
A. A whole lot of money
B. Not so much
C. Hardly any
Baja California, for tourists traveling by water, is almost like road travel was before the paved highway. There are no real deep-water ports:
Ensenada has limited dockage for cruise ships, La Paz has a very narrow, shallow harbor entrance and limited docking facilities, Cabo San Lucas has
mooring only. So even though the peninsula is close to U.S. west coast harbors the big ships still struggle to put passengers ashore (less revenues
from on board gambling while in port, huge moorage, pilot and water taxi fees for example).
At every port of call the cruise industry attempts to arrange, conduct or negotiate the existence of shore excursions. Some world ports have natural
attractions that made them destinations in the first place; glaciers, rivers, falls, rain forests, antiquities, volcanoes to name a few. Ensenada has
La Bufadora, a natural cliff-side blowhole, La Paz has the sea life and beauty of nearby islands, Loreto, I suppose, will have a whole new movie set
mission village at San Javier. They are paving the road to the mission to accommodate the fleet of tour buses that will magically appear near the
waterfront when the harbor is ready for the onslaught – deep dredged harbor for mooring, docking pier or deep water marina planned for what is now a
special Marine Biosphere Reserve.
Shore excursions need to be close and quick, (less than five hours) attractive to young and old, a controlled, safe route and venue. Typical
excursion fees amount to a large check once a month from some European or Scandinavian cruise line made out to “Crazy Cabo Eco Jeeps Corp” – let your
imagination run as to where the money will be spent once the check is cashed.
To sum up, cruise ship companies and their passengers put A in the pockets of Port Captains, Government and private marina operators, water taxis and
excursion operators, B in those of local vendors, C in those of townspeople.
Just a small percentage of total passengers buy the excursion packages. Most just walk around the marina areas taking in the sights and sounds,
buying T-shirts and ashtrays – no food or booze because they all leave the big ships with full bellies from 24 hour binging. Thank God the tourists
in the Big All Inclusive Resorts stay in the resorts; if they joined the cruise passengers in town there would be pedestrian gridlock; imagine a SRO
auction where nobody bids or buys or a casino filled with rich people who are not gambling.
As the Sea of Cortez Project spends billions of dollars to attract yachtsmen from the U.S. and hundreds more cruise ships from all over the world, the
hidden danger is that the big dollars will not trickle down to the people and the places the project has spawned; that the bulk of the tourist dollars
will slide right through the ports of call on its way to the Mexican government and foreign specialty recreation companies.
Even if the project is unsuccessful in luring tens of thousands of U.S. yacht owners, if it doubles or triples the cruise ship numbers it will all add
to the Americanization of Baja California. There are already seaside hamlets where Mexicans have been forced out by people and prices.
Even though the baby boomers have lost most of the equity in their homes (read retirement money) they might still have enough to come down here, crash
through all the stumbling blocks, pay all the fees, suffer all the costs and have plenty left over for trips to Costco and pitchers of Margaritas made
with Sauza Conmemorativo. In our search for a life in paradise we are replacing the people of the land. Soon it will be gringos buying from and
selling to gringos; Pizza Huts and bagels, escalators, escrows and elevators, all business done in U.S. dollars, everybody speaking English.
There is an old adage:
“When the Gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.”
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Where do tourist dollars go? Let's follow the money a little ways. Here's an article I posted 5 years ago -- I think it is still on the mark, only the
names have changed.
How’s that Escalera Nautica
Sea of Cortez Project Workin’ Out for you?
Now It’s
“Wanted, rich people on airplanes”
I spent all morning looking for tourist spending statistics for Mexico. I also took a nice walk on the beach – should have walked farther, passed on
the search. The stats were all over the place. Shoulda figured. I used to be in the insurance business. Thank God I was never in the statistics
part of it. I do know one “statistics joke.”
Two insurance actuaries go deer hunting together. From their moving truck they spot a nice buck in a snowy field, stop to try a long rifle shot. The
first guy shoots and they see the bullet hit the snow 100 feet to the left. The other guy grabs the gun and says “you were way off, give me that
thing.”
He shoots and the bullet hits 100 feet to the right. The first guy says “we got him!”
The real joke is that there are no realistic, credible figures for tourist spending in Mexico (or anywhere else) because revenue reporting is flawed
or non-existent; averaging things like spending will get you in trouble fast.
Those of you who have vacationed in Mexico would be hard pressed to report to anyone how much you spent per day, per trip, etc. and those who took the
money did not follow you as you checked out, left the area, to make sure they had a good total. It matters little your mode of transportation, your
lodging costs or your length of stay. It also makes little sense, if you knew the exact daily expenditures, to try to average the daily expense rate
of $15,000 dollars of some Saudi Sheik with the beer and cerveza chump change squeezed out by the guy who sleeps on the beach and eats almost nothing
but triggerfish chowder.
Search engines peg the fly/drive pilgrim at $600 U.S. dollars to $700 U.S. dollars per day, cruise ship passengers (they say) spend between $50 and
$70 each per day per port of call.
So, for the purposes of this little essay on The Sea of Cortez Project, Cruise Ships, Water Taxis, and Piers I use a more realistic and manageable
paradigm:
A. A whole lot of money
B. Not so much
C. Hardly any
Baja California, for tourists traveling by water, is almost like road travel was before the paved highway. There are no real deep-water ports:
Ensenada has limited dockage for cruise ships, La Paz has a very narrow, shallow harbor entrance and limited docking facilities, Cabo San Lucas has
mooring only. So even though the peninsula is close to U.S. west coast harbors the big ships still struggle to put passengers ashore (less revenues
from on board gambling while in port, huge moorage, pilot and water taxi fees for example).
At every port of call the cruise industry attempts to arrange, conduct or negotiate the existence of shore excursions. Some world ports have natural
attractions that made them destinations in the first place; glaciers, rivers, falls, rain forests, antiquities, volcanoes to name a few. Ensenada has
La Bufadora, a natural cliff-side blowhole, La Paz has the sea life and beauty of nearby islands, Loreto, I suppose, will have a whole new movie set
mission village at San Javier. They are paving the road to the mission to accommodate the fleet of tour buses that will magically appear near the
waterfront when the harbor is ready for the onslaught – deep dredged harbor for mooring, docking pier or deep water marina planned for what is now a
special Marine Biosphere Reserve.
Shore excursions need to be close and quick, (less than five hours) attractive to young and old, a controlled, safe route and venue. Typical
excursion fees amount to a large check once a month from some European or Scandinavian cruise line made out to “Crazy Cabo Eco Jeeps Corp” – let your
imagination run as to where the money will be spent once the check is cashed.
To sum up, cruise ship companies and their passengers put A in the pockets of Port Captains, Government and private marina operators, water taxis and
excursion operators, B in those of local vendors, C in those of townspeople.
Just a small percentage of total passengers buy the excursion packages. Most just walk around the marina areas taking in the sights and sounds,
buying T-shirts and ashtrays – no food or booze because they all leave the big ships with full bellies from 24 hour binging. Thank God the tourists
in the Big All Inclusive Resorts stay in the resorts; if they joined the cruise passengers in town there would be pedestrian gridlock; imagine a SRO
auction where nobody bids or buys or a casino filled with rich people who are not gambling.
As the Sea of Cortez Project spends billions of dollars to attract yachtsmen from the U.S. and hundreds more cruise ships from all over the world, the
hidden danger is that the big dollars will not trickle down to the people and the places the project has spawned; that the bulk of the tourist dollars
will slide right through the ports of call on its way to the Mexican government and foreign specialty recreation companies.
Even if the project is unsuccessful in luring tens of thousands of U.S. yacht owners, if it doubles or triples the cruise ship numbers it will all add
to the Americanization of Baja California. There are already seaside hamlets where Mexicans have been forced out by people and prices.
Even though the baby boomers have lost most of the equity in their homes (read retirement money) they might still have enough to come down here, crash
through all the stumbling blocks, pay all the fees, suffer all the costs and have plenty left over for trips to Costco and pitchers of Margaritas made
with Sauza Conmemorativo. In our search for a life in paradise we are replacing the people of the land. Soon it will be gringos buying from and
selling to gringos; Pizza Huts and bagels, escalators, escrows and elevators, all business done in U.S. dollars, everybody speaking English.
There is an old adage:
“When the Gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.” |
your post is a bunch of nonsense presented as gibberish! a total mess! you string together loosely related flaky concepts and think it wisdom. it's
not. it's crap, would get a D if submitted as a 10th grade essay in a really crappy high school! sounds like a crack-smoking crack-pot ranting
against tourism!
re your original question: all economies need to grow, or they will die. baja has little manufacturing base outside of border zone, and has poor
natural resources for extractive industries. and has poor resources for agriculture. seems like baja's best asset is it's attractions to tourists!
re another of your Qs: there is no such thing as sustainable development based on fossil fuel consumption!
peace out!
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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I think you're a mean person goat. I really wanted to go to highschool. You don't know how your words can hurt some people.
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Bajahowodd
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Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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It wasn't all that long ago that Cabo had no golf courses. It did have miles and miles of inviting beaches with land adjacent that could be easily
developed.
La Paz was a significant city when Cabo was a sleepy fishing village. However, what developers saw in Cabo was something that La Paz frankly does not
have- the beaches; and lots of them.
I waver between the two as a favorite simply because I consider La Paz to be more authentic and sophisticated as opposed to Cabo being more of a
developer's.
In some respects, it's a bit like tourism versus residency. US tourists, in particular, and certainly the rich and famous, prefer that quick getaway
to the luxury resorts that are peppered around Cabo. The fly-in people.
Although neither has a manufacturing base, La Paz does have the commercial port that by dint of geography, Cabo doesn't and cannot have.
Interesting to read a rumor about a potential Costco in La Paz. Right now, none between Ensenada and Cabo. Yet, Comercial Mexicano is partnered with
Costco in Mexico. Maybe they have not gained entry for political reasons. Reminds me of when Aramburo fought tooth and nail to keep mainland based
competition(think Soriana and CoMex) out of BCS that would threaten his monopoly.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Thanks, lots of comparisons that allow us to have a broader view of what pushes forward Baja towns and cities and what holds that momentum back; how
it can sometimes ruin, sometimes bloom areas along the shore
I was hoping for more thoughts about these growth (good or bad) subjects from Nomads along the border where they live.
Have not heard one word from the folks at Bay of Los Angeles or Bahia Assuncion which, in the overall scheme of things, might become Baja's canary in
the coal mine.
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