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DianaT
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El Morro National Monument, NM
This is another place in New Mexico that is a bit off the beaten track and well worth visiting. The main attraction is Inscription Rock that includes
Native American Petroglyphs, signatures from the Spanish, and some from later American arrivals.
We had an interesting conversation with one of the rangers about how older rock carvings are admired and protected, and how a modern carving would be
considered defacing. He told us that after it became a National Monument, they actually decided to remove all signatures carved after, I believe it
was 1906 including the signature of the infamous Kit Carson. Just something to ponder. It is a beautiful setting.
Along the trail to the signatures.
The water hole that drew people to this area
Protecting the water hole --- gees, I like anything that makes me look smaller. :-)
I just love beautiful rocks with great patterns
A few of the many carvings.
Some Native American Carvings
We had snowed on us at lower elevation that day, and it was threatening, but we decided to take plastic bags for the cameras and head up to the top of
the mesa.
The mammoth rock formations are beautiful
This one's face felt like the ancient spirits were watching.
It was well worth the hike up the mesa---the views were fantastic in all directions. Here is looking down on those huge rock formations from the top
of the mesa
A windswept pine tree
Deep and beautiful box canyons.
The trail along the top of the mesa was across the uneven rocks and marked in most areas with slight carvings in the rock and carins. They tell you
to look for the next carin before leaving a carin and they have carved some steps in the rock. So worth it!
Had to really hang on to the dogs---but such a great place to sit and enjoy the vistas.
And on top of the mesa are the ruins of a pueblo---it is right before the trail heads down the mesa
The sky was very cloudly, but only spit out a few white flakes on us and the cameras. :-)
If you are ever on I-40 in western New Mexico, head on down to El Morro!
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Barry A.
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Beautiful pics and country, Diana. You are covering a lot of ground on this trip---------I intend to duplicate your trip soon, and your photos have
really spiked up my interest.
Are you going to Chaco Canyon on this trip too?
Barry
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Beautiful pics and country, Diana. You are covering a lot of ground on this trip---------I intend to duplicate your trip soon, and your photos have
really spiked up my interest.
Are you going to Chaco Canyon on this trip too?
Barry |
Thanks Barry. We are back home now and no, we did not make Chaco Canyon, but we have been there before and do want to return!
Have a GREAT time in New Mexico.
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John M
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1906?
Did they actually remove later signatures?
I did some research relating to a series of initials carved in the mid to late 1860s. I also had good information regarding a lengthy inscription of
15 or so words. When I inquired of the National Park Service as to why the particular lengthy inscription is not known, the historian suggested that
perhaps it is hidden under moss and other growth that the NPS permits to grow on the rock inspite of the fact that growth conceals many historic
inscriptions. I questioned that and was told that the feeling is that the growth is "a natural progression" and the inscriptions and human caused,
thus not as important.
huh?
John M
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by John M
Did they actually remove later signatures?
I did some research relating to a series of initials carved in the mid to late 1860s. I also had good information regarding a lengthy inscription of
15 or so words. When I inquired of the National Park Service as to why the particular lengthy inscription is not known, the historian suggested that
perhaps it is hidden under moss and other growth that the NPS permits to grow on the rock inspite of the fact that growth conceals many historic
inscriptions. I questioned that and was told that the feeling is that the growth is "a natural progression" and the inscriptions and human caused,
thus not as important.
huh?
John M |
John, that is what the ranger told us. He said that there was quite a debate way back when, around 1920, and the names were removed including the
name of the infamous Kit Carson. He also told us that they are constantly working to preserve the older carvings as the sandstone tends to wear away.
I have tried to find other sources of information about this, but I have not been successful yet.
[Edited on 4-10-2012 by DianaT]
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watizname
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How come Kit Carson is "infamous"?? Not being a smart a$$, just curious.
I yam what I yam and that\'s all what I yam.
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TMW
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I think it has more to do with being politically correct. It is a beautiful place, thanks for the pictures.
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bajaguy
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Kit Carson
| Quote: | Originally posted by watizname
How come Kit Carson is "infamous"?? Not being a smart a$$, just curious.
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Yeah, me too.......what's up with that????
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by watizname
How come Kit Carson is "infamous"?? Not being a smart a$$, just curious.
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Like many of the early mountain men and trappers, Kit Carson became quite a legend during his time and later. He was a guide for John Fremont, he was
involved in the California Bear Flag revolt, he married a couple of Native Americans, and all became quite a "romantic" legend. The Easterners loved
reading about these "brave" men and reality often became mixed with story telling in the old Dime Novels ---- much like the tabloids of today, full of
hyperbole.
But the "infamous" comes from his Civil War Days. While he led a New Mexico division in the Civil War his main war became against the Navajo nation
and ended in the Long Walk where he marched approx. 8000 Navajos 300+ miles---he is not fondly remembered by the Navajo nation. The whole story was
not a pretty picture. But then again, not so unusual in those days.
So, like most historical figures, he was famous to the victors, and infamous to the others. So called "Manifest Destiny" did not bode well for any of
the western Native Americans.
[Edited on 4-10-2012 by DianaT]
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rts551
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You mean all those TV shows were just made up? I'll bet it is just a plot by the left!
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Bob H
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Very interesting place and your photos are fantastic.
Another tidbit on Kit Carson: Breveted a general, he is probably the only American to reach such a high military rank without being able to read or
write, although he could sign his name.
The SAME boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg. It's about what you are made of NOT the circumstance.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
You mean all those TV shows were just made up? I'll bet it is just a plot by the left! |
Well, maybe just a wee bit romanticized---except I am sure Marshall Dillon and Miss Kitty were for real! 
Just can't trust those leftist plots!
Thanks Bob--- and yes, the real Kit Carson was an interesting person and El Morro is very interesting and in fantastic country.
[Edited on 4-10-2012 by DianaT]
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watizname
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Thanks for the info on Kit, DianaT. I guess it all depends which side of the fence your on as to whether a historical figure, almost any of them,
is a hero or infamous. They all seem to have some kind of skeleton in their closet. 
I yam what I yam and that\'s all what I yam.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by watizname
Thanks for the info on Kit, DianaT. I guess it all depends which side of the fence your on as to whether a historical figure, almost any of them,
is a hero or infamous. They all seem to have some kind of skeleton in their closet. |
Yes, three of my favorite quotes about history.
History is only the register of crimes and misfortunes.
Voltaire
What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte
and
History is written by the victors.
Winston Churchill
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Barry A.
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I was just looking at my western New Mexico maps, and boy, both Gila Cliff Dwelling and El Morro are wayyyyyyyy off the beaten track, for sure. That
fact makes them all the more interesting, to us anyway. Can't wait to go visit them.
As for the treatment of Indians in the 1800's by the USA, tho the "manifest destiny" mentality was really prevalant, there were a LOT of folks in
positions of power in Govt. and elsewhere in the west that tried their best to look out for the Indian's interests, mostly unsuccessfully as the
rabble that were moving west were mostly uneducated, very greedy, hated Indian's as nothing more than dangerous pests and barbarians, and wanted them
all dead, and the decision-makers in Govt. aided them. From my point of view it was all understandable given the circumstances, but not pretty, as
Diana said. It was a vastly different time, that is for sure, but the stigma still lingers. The Indian's are still trying to recover, but the vast
majority have made it into the 21st century and are doing quite well, as it should be, thanks to the Casinos and their associated enterprises, etc..
Both my Brother-in-law and my son have long worked for, and advised various Tribes and Nations and can attest to their progress----but there are
still some very real problems, mostly associated with dependence on the Govt., and now the Tribal enterprises, by some. Individual self-determination
is being pushed within the community, with some success, but there is still progress needed. The internal structure of Indian society is in many
cases different than our's, so it is a problem for mutual understanding and progress.
That's my soapbox for the day. 
Barry
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I was just looking at my western New Mexico maps, and boy, both Gila Cliff Dwelling and El Morro are wayyyyyyyy off the beaten track, for sure. That
fact makes them all the more interesting, to us anyway. Can't wait to go visit them.
As for the treatment of Indians in the 1800's by the USA, tho the "manifest destiny" mentality was really prevalant, there were a LOT of folks in
positions of power in Govt. and elsewhere in the west that tried their best to look out for the Indian's interests, mostly unsuccessfully as the
rabble that were moving west were mostly uneducated, very greedy, hated Indian's as nothing more than dangerous pests and barbarians, and wanted them
all dead, and the decision-makers in Govt. aided them. From my point of view it was all understandable given the circumstances, but not pretty, as
Diana said. It was a vastly different time, that is for sure, but the stigma still lingers. The Indian's are still trying to recover, but the vast
majority have made it into the 21st century and are doing quite well, as it should be, thanks to the Casinos and their associated enterprises, etc..
Both my Brother-in-law and my son have long worked for, and advised various Tribes and Nations and can attest to their progress----but there are
still some very real problems, mostly associated with dependence on the Govt., and now the Tribal enterprises, by some. Individual self-determination
is being pushed within the community, with some success, but there is still progress needed. The internal structure of Indian society is in many
cases different than our's, so it is a problem for mutual understanding and progress.
That's my soapbox for the day.
Barry |
I really like your last sentence. ---not the one about a soapbox, but the last one of the paragraph 
One thing I always find interesting during the time of Manifest Destiny and beyond when the Western Native American Nations were being destroyed is
how much support they had in the East. The Native American Nations in the East had been pretty much destroyed a long time ago, so it was quite
convenient for many Easterners to side with the Western Native Americans. Just one example----there was quite a movement including newspapers who
really supported the Nez Perce and were hoping they would make it to Canada.
It is an interesting history and one I believe should be read from many different perspectives, and there are MANY.
OH, and when you visit New Mexico in those off the beaten tracks, remember that our goal is to get off the interstates as often as possible! The road
to the Gila Cliff Dwellings is VERY slow---both ways---take food and water!! But it is worth it!
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Barry A.
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You are right, Diana-------much more support for the Natives from the "east" than in the west in the late 1800's and into the 1900's.
I assume that you and John were "motel'ing it" rather than camping in your own RV-------true??? And if so, were there adaquate motels and hotels
available to suit your needs, or did it take some planning to find them? It would appear to me after doing some searching that Chaco Canyon is a
problem as there are no hotels/motels close by, apparently. Is this also true where you were concentrating on visiting this trip?
Barry
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tripledigitken
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Nice post Diane!
Barry,
For Chaco, camping there is the way to truly appreciate it. It is a must see for Anazazi sights that u can drive to.
Ken
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
You are right, Diana-------much more support for the Natives from the "east" than in the west in the late 1800's and into the 1900's.
I assume that you and John were "motel'ing it" rather than camping in your own RV-------true??? And if so, were there adaquate motels and hotels
available to suit your needs, or did it take some planning to find them? It would appear to me after doing some searching that Chaco Canyon is a
problem as there are no hotels/motels close by, apparently. Is this also true where you were concentrating on visiting this trip?
Barry |
[Edited on 4-10-2012 by tripledigitken]
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Barry A.
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Thanks, Ken-----I appreciate that info----------we will take our small pickup camper, and stay a few days after it warms up a bit.
Barry
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
You are right, Diana-------much more support for the Natives from the "east" than in the west in the late 1800's and into the 1900's.
I assume that you and John were "motel'ing it" rather than camping in your own RV-------true??? And if so, were there adaquate motels and hotels
available to suit your needs, or did it take some planning to find them? It would appear to me after doing some searching that Chaco Canyon is a
problem as there are no hotels/motels close by, apparently. Is this also true where you were concentrating on visiting this trip?
Barry |
This trip we had no camping equipment with us and we no longer have a camper or trailer, so yes, we were at the mercy of the motels. And for us, it
is more difficult and we travel with our dogs----especially with the little one on chemo, we just can't leave them, besides, they love to go.
On the first day we left from the El Centro area after our dental appointments in Holtvile. We have not lived in that area for about 6 years, but
still like our dentist out there! We drove to Wilcox, Arizonia.
The next day we checked our Silver City, NM and there are several motels there and we thought we might return there after visiting the Gila Cliff
Dwellings, but decided to head east where the road forks as we thought it would be a faster road ---- the first part is very slow, but BEAUTIFUL.
It was a very long day, longer than we wanted, but oh well, that happens. We ended up in Truth or Consequences. There there are a number of chain
motels but we picked a less expensive one called the Oasis. We almost passed it up as there were a couple of long term residents there which is
usually a sign that we don't want to stay there. But we are glad we checked it out---all remodeled and quite nice and a good value.
So if you stayed in Silver City and left early for the cliff dwellings, you would have plenty of time to return to Silver City or head for Truth and
Consequences. There was a lodge out there that we did not check out.
El Morro is not as far off the main road and the road is very good----nice road, not much traffic. We left Santa Fe in the morning, drove through the
snow from Albuquerque almost to Grant where the road heads south to El Morro. So again, we didn't arrive until the afternoon. While it is only a
2+mile loop trail, it is not a fast trail---certainly not as fast as it would have been 20 years ago---- as it switchbacks up to the top of the mesa
and it is uneven walking on top. So we did not want to end up in the middle of nowhere, so we looped back up to Gallup.
We seldom plan a head---- but we do try to judge time and distance to where we can find a motel and sometimes we find towns with no motel and have to
travel further than we want, but that is the price we pay for going day by day.
In thinking about where we might go, we do depend on the computer to google the name of towns and see what might be there.
When do you think you might go? It does get hot around there!
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