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EnsenadaDr
Banned
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Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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"If you don't know, blame Mexico"
It's really becoming an obsession with the American public and press to point fingers at Mexico and blame them for gang style killings and Cartel
involvement. Yet, as evidenced by the recent discovery of the McStay family remains in a characteristic "Mexican-style" cartel killing, only that it
happened right here in the good old USA, we have to ask ourselves. Why does Mexico consistently get the bad press? The San Diego Sheriff's
department was so smug and self-assured that the family was in Mexico, they never did a proper criminal investigation in the US. Now it may be too
late to recoup and recover evidence on this American tragedy.
The Tourism industry and even the State Department issue warnings about visiting Mexico. People, come on. If you live in glass houses, don't throw
stones at your neighbor!!
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Whale-ista
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Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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Agree San Diego Sheriff/DA dropped the ball...NOT 1st time
Our proximity to the border seems to work against thorough investigations. It also leads to people escaping into Mexico, in some cases even after
authorities have held them in custody. Perhaps tourists should be warned not to visit San Diego?
Here is a case from San Diego that was especially sad. (I teach for the community college District.). The killer escaped into Mexico and was finally
apprehended two years later.
From http://www.kpbs.org/news/2011/jan/03/parents-murdered-san-di...
"Diana was murdered just two weeks after she told police her estranged husband held her captive for three days during which he allegedly choked and
raped her. Janette Gonzalez says Diana finally convinced Perez to return her to her parents' home by promising to reconcile. But as soon as she walked
in the house, Janette said Diana barricaded herself in her bedroom. Her mother shooed Perez away, Janette said, and then Diana called the police to
file a report.
"She did it right away," Janette said. "She was so sure about what she was doing."
Diana told police Perez had battered her 20 other times. Perez was arrested but released when the district attorney's office declined to prosecute.
Janette said that news frightened Diana.
"She had that fear," Janette said. "She was scared. She knew that something else probably could happen to her."
San Diego District Attorney Bonnie Dumanis said the case wasn't filed because there was not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. She won't say what
evidence was lacking, nor has she told the family."
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
It's really becoming an obsession with the American public and press to point fingers at Mexico and blame them for gang style killings and Cartel
involvement. Yet, as evidenced by the recent discovery of the McStay family remains in a characteristic "Mexican-style" cartel killing, only that it
happened right here in the good old USA, we have to ask ourselves. Why does Mexico consistently get the bad press? The San Diego Sheriff's
department was so smug and self-assured that the family was in Mexico, they never did a proper criminal investigation in the US. Now it may be too
late to recoup and recover evidence on this American tragedy.
The Tourism industry and even the State Department issue warnings about visiting Mexico. People, come on. If you live in glass houses, don't throw
stones at your neighbor!! |
There was no conclusive evidence as to anything until a few days back, nor were there statements as to cartel complicity that weren't pure
suppositions and bar room guesses.
The bad vid put them in Mexico erroneously...or not. We don't know. They may have entered and exited,....then gone on to meet their fate. I doubt
that to be the case. The evidence in their home indicated a quiet, although abrupt departure, and the figures thought possibly to be the family in
the vid, showed no evidence of stressful activity or movement.
To try to distance Mexico from cartel activity is chamber of commerce BS.
Who signed you up?
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
It's really becoming an obsession with the American public and press to point fingers at Mexico and blame them for gang style killings and Cartel
involvement. Yet, as evidenced by the recent discovery of the McStay family remains in a characteristic "Mexican-style" cartel killing, only that it
happened right here in the good old USA, we have to ask ourselves. Why does Mexico consistently get the bad press? The San Diego Sheriff's
department was so smug and self-assured that the family was in Mexico, they never did a proper criminal investigation in the US. Now it may be too
late to recoup and recover evidence on this American tragedy.
The Tourism industry and even the State Department issue warnings about visiting Mexico. People, come on. If you live in glass houses, don't throw
stones at your neighbor!! |
"......Yet, as evidenced by the recent discovery of the McStay family remains in a characteristic "Mexican-style" cartel killing, only that it
happened right here in the good old USA,...."
The San Bernardino County Sheriff stated in a televised news conference that there was no indication of "Cartel" involvement. If you have information
that proves otherwise, please cite your source.
".....The San Diego Sheriff's department was so smug and self-assured that the family was in Mexico, they never did a proper criminal investigation in
the US......."
I can find no information that ....." The San Diego Sheriff's department was so smug and self-assured that the family was in Mexico........". Based
on the information and evidence/clues at the time, it APPEARED the family MAY have gone to Mexico.
".......... The San Diego Sheriff's department......they never did a proper criminal investigation in the US....."
Really?????.....how do you know????....do you have an inside source at the SD Sheriff's Office, or maybe the San Bernardino Sheriff's Office or maybe
the FBI??? Do you know what evidence was recovered???....if so, please share it with us.........you might even want to call the FBI with your
information.
You really don't know what was done, where it was done or by who. Why don't you wait for the facts???
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64755
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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When asked (often) if I am afraid go to Mexico with the crime there... I respond if they are afraid to leave their homes with the amount of crime in
the USA. It is daily here in California, the number of murders and robberies... how can anyone step outside knowing this?
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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No one Dennis. I just feel this was a botched investigation because someone, including the San Diego Sheriff's Department, chose to believe that the
family made the "ultimate escape" South of the Border. People would rather believe drama rather than reality. I am not trying to distance cartel
activity from Mexico. Neither am I saying that a cartel like activity such as family shallow graves only occur in Mexico. | Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
It's really becoming an obsession with the American public and press to point fingers at Mexico and blame them for gang style killings and Cartel
involvement. Yet, as evidenced by the recent discovery of the McStay family remains in a characteristic "Mexican-style" cartel killing, only that it
happened right here in the good old USA, we have to ask ourselves. Why does Mexico consistently get the bad press? The San Diego Sheriff's
department was so smug and self-assured that the family was in Mexico, they never did a proper criminal investigation in the US. Now it may be too
late to recoup and recover evidence on this American tragedy.
The Tourism industry and even the State Department issue warnings about visiting Mexico. People, come on. If you live in glass houses, don't throw
stones at your neighbor!! |
There was no conclusive evidence as to anything until a few days back, nor were there statements as to cartel complicity that weren't pure
suppositions and bar room guesses.
The bad vid put them in Mexico erroneously...or not. We don't know. They may have entered and exited,....then gone on to meet their fate. I doubt
that to be the case. The evidence in their home indicated a quiet, although abrupt departure, and the figures thought possibly to be the family in
the vid, showed no evidence of stressful activity or movement.
To try to distance Mexico from cartel activity is chamber of commerce BS.
Who signed you up? |
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Sorry I forgot to quote my source for my comments:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mcstay-family-disap...
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
It's really becoming an obsession with the American public and press to point fingers at Mexico and blame them for gang style killings and Cartel
involvement. Yet, as evidenced by the recent discovery of the McStay family remains in a characteristic "Mexican-style" cartel killing, only that it
happened right here in the good old USA, we have to ask ourselves. Why does Mexico consistently get the bad press? The San Diego Sheriff's
department was so smug and self-assured that the family was in Mexico, they never did a proper criminal investigation in the US. Now it may be too
late to recoup and recover evidence on this American tragedy.
The Tourism industry and even the State Department issue warnings about visiting Mexico. People, come on. If you live in glass houses, don't throw
stones at your neighbor!! |
"......Yet, as evidenced by the recent discovery of the McStay family remains in a characteristic "Mexican-style" cartel killing, only that it
happened right here in the good old USA,...."
The San Bernardino County Sheriff stated in a televised news conference that there was no indication of "Cartel" involvement. If you have information
that proves otherwise, please cite your source.
".....The San Diego Sheriff's department was so smug and self-assured that the family was in Mexico, they never did a proper criminal investigation in
the US......."
I can find no information that ....." The San Diego Sheriff's department was so smug and self-assured that the family was in Mexico........". Based
on the information and evidence/clues at the time, it APPEARED the family MAY have gone to Mexico.
".......... The San Diego Sheriff's department......they never did a proper criminal investigation in the US....."
Really?????.....how do you know????....do you have an inside source at the SD Sheriff's Office, or maybe the San Bernardino Sheriff's Office or maybe
the FBI??? Do you know what evidence was recovered???....if so, please share it with us.........you might even want to call the FBI with your
information.
You really don't know what was done, where it was done or by who. Why don't you wait for the facts??? |
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Ok, that makes things better....NOT.
You are basing your comments on the referenced link to an article in the New York Daily News written by a reporter who has probably never been to San
Diego, let alone Victorville.
I would be willing to bet her info came from vairous wire service/media reports.
The guy making the accusations is Joe's father, who by no means has an ax to grind.
And nowhere in the article does it mention "Cartel" involvement ....are you taking a little poetic license???
Maybe you should retitle this thread to:
"If You don't know, STFU"
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Thank you very much for that eloquent and polite remark, Bajaguy. I don't think you. Mr. Expert in your field or anyone else knows what happened, so
I don't see any harm in tossing the facts around and coming up with something. Others including Vandenberg say it resembles a cartel hit, so excuse
me. | Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
Ok, that makes things better....NOT.
You are basing your comments on the referenced link to an article in the New York Daily News written by a reporter who has probably never been to San
Diego, let alone Victorville.
I would be willing to bet her info came from vairous wire service/media reports.
The guy making the accusations is Joe's father, who by no means has an ax to grind.
And nowhere in the article does it mention "Cartel" involvement ....are you taking a little poetic license???
Maybe you should retitle this thread to:
"If You don't know, STFU" |
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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You are welcome!!!
And you are correct, none of the information "released" so far points to any conclusion as to what happened. As far as tossing 'facts'
around.......those are not facts, they are "assumptions".
Oh, and yes, I have been qualified as an expert in this specialty field.
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Thank you very much for that eloquent and polite remark, Bajaguy. I don't think you. Mr. Expert in your field or anyone else knows what happened, so
I don't see any harm in tossing the facts around and coming up with something. Others including Vandenberg say it resembles a cartel hit, so excuse
me. |
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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So Mr. Expert what do you think happened? | Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
You are welcome!!!
And you are correct, none of the information "released" so far points to any conclusion as to what happened. As far as tossing 'facts'
around.......those are not facts, they are "assumptions".
Oh, and yes, I have been qualified as an expert in this specialty field.
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Thank you very much for that eloquent and polite remark, Bajaguy. I don't think you. Mr. Expert in your field or anyone else knows what happened, so
I don't see any harm in tossing the facts around and coming up with something. Others including Vandenberg say it resembles a cartel hit, so excuse
me. |
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Without knowing all of the facts, and without knowing what the San Diego, San Bernardino and FBI "holdback" information is, I don't think anything.
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
So Mr. Expert what do you think happened? | Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
You are welcome!!!
And you are correct, none of the information "released" so far points to any conclusion as to what happened. As far as tossing 'facts'
around.......those are not facts, they are "assumptions".
Oh, and yes, I have been qualified as an expert in this specialty field.
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Thank you very much for that eloquent and polite remark, Bajaguy. I don't think you. Mr. Expert in your field or anyone else knows what happened, so
I don't see any harm in tossing the facts around and coming up with something. Others including Vandenberg say it resembles a cartel hit, so excuse
me. |
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Apparently they don't think anything either, because they would have solved the case a long time ago. | Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
Without knowing all of the facts, and without knowing what the San Diego, San Bernardino and FBI "holdback" information is, I don't think anything.
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
So Mr. Expert what do you think happened? | Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
You are welcome!!!
And you are correct, none of the information "released" so far points to any conclusion as to what happened. As far as tossing 'facts'
around.......those are not facts, they are "assumptions".
Oh, and yes, I have been qualified as an expert in this specialty field.
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Thank you very much for that eloquent and polite remark, Bajaguy. I don't think you. Mr. Expert in your field or anyone else knows what happened, so
I don't see any harm in tossing the facts around and coming up with something. Others including Vandenberg say it resembles a cartel hit, so excuse
me. |
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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"Without knowing all of the facts, and without knowing what the San Diego, San Bernardino and FBI "holdback" information is, I don't think anything."
You seemed to have quite a few thoughts about my posting:
You are basing your comments on the referenced link to an article in the New York Daily News written by a reporter who has probably never been to San
Diego, let alone Victorville.
BUT YOU DON'T KNOW THAT NOW, DO YOU? ASSUMPTION, ASSUMPTION.
I would be willing to bet her info came from vairous wire service/media reports.
ANOTHER ASSUMPTION.
The guy making the accusations is Joe's father, who by no means has an ax to grind.
HE COULD BE TELLING THE TRUTH.
And nowhere in the article does it mention "Cartel" involvement ....are you taking a little poetic license???
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
So Mr. Expert what do you think happened? | Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
You are welcome!!!
And you are correct, none of the information "released" so far points to any conclusion as to what happened. As far as tossing 'facts'
around.......those are not facts, they are "assumptions".
Oh, and yes, I have been qualified as an expert in this specialty field.
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Thank you very much for that eloquent and polite remark, Bajaguy. I don't think you. Mr. Expert in your field or anyone else knows what happened, so
I don't see any harm in tossing the facts around and coming up with something. Others including Vandenberg say it resembles a cartel hit, so excuse
me. |
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3495
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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LE was really busy and like Dennis said, not enough facts available.
Boogie men in MX sells media and the public get's titillated. And the media, LE and others lie to cover their bungling.
US likes blaming other countries for stuff they don't like and right now MX is at The Gate. How many illegals in the US? Anything being done
about immigration? No.
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Why does Mexico consistently get the bad press? |
Short term memory? While the Mex Cartel violence never
caused me pause about going to Mex, you have to admit,
the reports of bodies hung over Blvds in TJ and headless
bodies found in TJ the area around the Bullring of the Sea
would make even a vetern Baja traveller take notice,
I understand completely the apprehension of the casual
Joe Gringo Baja visitor from the US, these stories were
not fabricated by the US Media, just reported on
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by sancho
these stories were
not fabricated by the US Media, just reported on |
Perfectly true.
I'm not going to continue this conversation here. It serves no purpose but to reopen the can of snakes.
Thanks, Sancho.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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ah, another 'expert" opinion. How many homicides/murders have you investigated or solved???
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Apparently they don't think anything either, because they would have solved the case a long time ago. | Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
Without knowing all of the facts, and without knowing what the San Diego, San Bernardino and FBI "holdback" information is, I don't think anything.
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
So Mr. Expert what do you think happened? | Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
You are welcome!!!
And you are correct, none of the information "released" so far points to any conclusion as to what happened. As far as tossing 'facts'
around.......those are not facts, they are "assumptions".
Oh, and yes, I have been qualified as an expert in this specialty field.
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Thank you very much for that eloquent and polite remark, Bajaguy. I don't think you. Mr. Expert in your field or anyone else knows what happened, so
I don't see any harm in tossing the facts around and coming up with something. Others including Vandenberg say it resembles a cartel hit, so excuse
me. |
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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I have every right to voice my opinion without an "expert" telling me to STFU. When a patient wants to voice an opinion, without any expertise, I
listen and don't tell him to STFU. Not nice at all, especially when you have been making assumptions yourself. I have never claimed to be a crime
expert or having solved murders. I do care about what happened to the family however.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18140
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
Oh, and yes, I have been qualified as an expert in this specialty field.
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We are all experts at reading the news and pontificating.
Re your supposed expertise, it's questionable outside of a donut shop; Most of us learned to never trust a cop, cops just make assumptions and jump to
(usually wrong) conclusions.
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