BajaNomad - Santa Isabel Found - not joking - nomad wanted

Santa Isabel Found - not joking - nomad wanted

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David K - 4-26-2011 at 10:13 AM

Remember to try and stash some firewood...

Elbeau, see you when you do get out west!

TMW - 4-26-2011 at 10:32 AM

Walking all the way to the Gulf is interesting. If you stay in the arroyo it's what 30+ miles. Some of it is tough miles over rocks etc. I've been about a mile past the corral to the first horse shoe turn and it was reall steep and rocky. However, I volunteer for your support crew. I can send you off and meet you on the other side. I'd even walk some of it.

I have a Spot so anyone who wants me to send an email ( it just says we are OK) back home while we are down there U2U me your email addy. Of course if there is an emergency it will send an emergency response team to us too.

elbeau - 4-26-2011 at 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Walking all the way to the Gulf is interesting. If you stay in the arroyo it's what 30+ miles. Some of it is tough miles over rocks etc. I've been about a mile past the corral to the first horse shoe turn and it was reall steep and rocky. However, I volunteer for your support crew. I can send you off and meet you on the other side. I'd even walk some of it.

Sounds great TW. There are two ways to do the trip. One is to have someone drop us off on one side then pick us up on the other like you said. I was hoping someone would volunteer to help with that, but if not then there is a point on the Olividada Mine road where it crosses the El Tule trail (according to the 1905 map). We could also set up base camp there and then travel the trail from that point to the gulf and back, then do the other part of the trail to El Marmol and back. The advantage of the second way is that if we get to a point where we don't think it's worth going further, then the trip back is much easier. The disadvantage is that it's twice as much hiking.

Since you're going to go to the X-shaped feature and try to fix the mine road, I'll try to map out where the trail crosses the road and maybe you can pick it out a little while you're there. The place where it crosses the mine road is very close to what appears to me to be one of the hardest parts of the trail through a narrow canyon. It'd be nice to get a photo or two of what to expect in that area before the fall trip.

mtgoat666 - 4-26-2011 at 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau
No matter what your trip does or doesn't turn up, like I've said before, I'm going to make it down there myself just for the fun of it if nothing else. I'm thinking of planing a visit this fall and doing an "El Tule Trail" backpacking trip...hopefully making it all the way from El Volcan to the gulf coast.

elbow:
you would find backpacking in that area kind of arduous and dull.
you seem to like antiquities - why don't you do your adventuring in the Sierra de San Francisco? the rock art is great (world class), and the mountains are very scenic.

elbeau - 4-26-2011 at 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mtgoat666

Quote:

Arduous? Probably so...but I doubt that it'll be boring. I'll definitely check out some other places on the trip, and I appreciate the suggestion, but I think recreating a 100-year-old trail in an area where there's currently no known similar route will be fun itself.

I don't want to hijack this thread with talk of a different trip. After we hear how this week's trip goes I'll start an El Tule trip thread for this fall.

[Edited on 4-26-2011 by elbeau]

David K - 4-26-2011 at 01:05 PM

The 1905 map is hand drawn and not made from surveying or saterllites, so that trail actually follows El Tule Wash (El Volcan) to the gulf is indeed in that arroyo and not somewhere else towards Olvidada. It is real rough and hilly country... water is a premium and the least amount of climbing up and down those cactus covered mountains, the better. It would surprise me if they ever left the arroyo bed... only to get around a waterfall, perhaps.

elbeau - 4-26-2011 at 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
The 1905 map is hand drawn and not made from surveying or saterllites, so that trail actually follows El Tule Wash (El Volcan) to the gulf is indeed in that arroyo and not somewhere else towards Olvidada. It is real rough and hilly country... water is a premium and the least amount of climbing up and down those cactus covered mountains, the better. It would surprise me if they ever left the arroyo bed... only to get around a waterfall, perhaps.

Unless you have other maps showing the trail, I think the 1905 map shows that the El Tule trail very rarely actually follows the arroyo...possibly for the same reasons that nomads have had difficulty traversing it. I'm not at home now with my graphics programs, but if you look back in this thread a ways you'll see a GE overlay that I did with the 1905 map. The map lines up very well with well-known features like El Marmol where the trail starts, "Landing" where the trail ends, the island chain, and I believe a few other places. The map may look very rough and hand-drawn, but it's angles and distances appear to be very well documented. Once lined up with the known features, the trail winds in a surprising way through the hills and valleys.

I "think" that what the author is trying to convey with the solid lines is what he saw when he was walking the trail. I haven't done a detailed study of it, but I remember seeing that the solid lines seemed to line up with the hillsides that GE shows the trail walking past. Like I said, I need to look into that claim a little more because I'm not sure of it yet, but he drew dotted lines for a reason (the trail itself, which is represented by two parallel dotted lines while the trail was good to El Marmol and then mostly single dotted lines afterwards) and solid lines for a reason (I think they mean hillsides next to the trail). I'll definitely spend some time on this subject tonight so that I can try to give TW some good information for his visit.

I know there are other maps showing "El Tule", but correct me if I'm wrong, but the other maps don't actually show the trail...right?

[Edited on 4-26-2011 by elbeau]

David K - 4-26-2011 at 09:01 PM

You may be right on Beau...

It just seems to me he was drawing the arroyo (Volcan/ Tule) and it is nowhere near 'Santa Isabel' true location on the arroyo. But the arroyo he drew and the trail over it has to be El Volcan, as none other arroyo does what was needed... provide a route between Miramar and El Marmol.

I just hear you saying something about 'finding' that trail on the way to La Olvidada... and the terrain as seen from space doesn't allow for it to be out that way... IMO.

TW, when you drive to Olvidada on Thursday or Friday... look for an old trail heading off to the left of the road!

elbeau - 4-26-2011 at 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
You may be right on Beau...

It just seems to me he was drawing the arroyo (Volcan/ Tule) and it is nowhere near 'Santa Isabel' true location on the arroyo. But the arroyo he drew and the trail over it has to be El Volcan, as none other arroyo does what was needed... provide a route between Miramar and El Marmol.

I just hear you saying something about 'finding' that trail on the way to La Olvidada... and the terrain as seen from space doesn't allow for it to be out that way... IMO.

TW, when you drive to Olvidada on Thursday or Friday... look for an old trail heading off to the left of the road!

Don't worry, I don't mean "finding" as in rediscovering the actual precise old burro trail...I just mean trying to follow the old map and see where it takes us. From what other nomads have written, there is currently no documented way through this area to the coast.

I'm also not saying that the El Tule trail goes past my "mission site", in fact, when I originally posted that overlaid map I was trying to show that the "mission site" may not have been found because the old trail --did not-- go near it.

Anyways, I stared at the solid lines on that map some more and got no closer to understanding them...but I did separate out the trail from the other markings and make a KML file to try to understand it better. The yellow trail is the current road to the Olividada mine as best as I can tell. The red dots represent the "El Tule" trail according to the 1905 map. The Blue lines and smudges are the other markings that I just don't understand.

Here's the KML File. It has a lot of other features in the file that are not visible unless you click on them, including the points to line up the map and the original map overlay, etc.

Here's a snapshot:

David K - 4-27-2011 at 07:44 AM

Baja offers us plenty of exploration possibilities! That prospectors over 100 years ago were all over the area looking for gold and padres over 200 years ago were looking for souls (and perhaps gold), makes it so much more interesting!

We leave in less than 48 hours!

TMW - 4-27-2011 at 01:20 PM

I'm packed and ready. Plenty of grits and fire wood. Should leave Hemit at 8 am tomorrow.

dtbushpilot - 4-27-2011 at 02:11 PM

My stuff is still scattered everywhere but I'm confident that I will have everything ready to go by tomorrow morning....or so.....dt

bajalou - 4-27-2011 at 03:18 PM

Should get packing done this afternoon - heading south in the AM.

mcfez - 4-27-2011 at 03:24 PM

Good luck boys (and girls?).
I seriously hope you find something cool there. One never knows.

TMW - 4-27-2011 at 03:46 PM

Mcfez you'll have to join us in the fall for the walk down El Volcan, Nomads Rule.

David K - 4-27-2011 at 06:01 PM

I have some work to do tomorrow, but all the camping gear is ready to go... Looking forward to El Vergel's arrival tomorrow PM and for Friday's start... and then get BajaCat. See you down there Tom and Lou (and David, XRPhlang, etc...)

BAJACAT - 4-27-2011 at 09:34 PM

Im ready, gear is all pull apart from storage..will pack tomorrow afternoon...
DK are we taking the BLV 2000..to Popotla

David K - 4-28-2011 at 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT
Im ready, gear is all pull apart from storage..will pack tomorrow afternoon...
DK are we taking the BLV 2000..to Popotla

Doesn't matter to me... I will leave that up to El Vergel... we miss two toll gates that way, or if we stay on the free road all the way to Ensenada, no tolls! :light:

Can you Dodge make it to El Rosario on one tank of gas (225 miles from border)? Will you want to top off at Cantamar (south of the border area higher price zone) or will your tank be topped in Chula Vista?

mcfez - 4-28-2011 at 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TW
Mcfez you'll have to join us in the fall for the walk down El Volcan, Nomads Rule.

Book me! I will be there indeed.

dtbushpilot - 4-28-2011 at 08:09 AM

I'm outa here.....see you at the lost mission.....dt

David K - 4-28-2011 at 08:11 AM

See you tomorrow Dave... I am ready to go do some irrigation, then come home and load the Tacoma up!

elbeau - 4-28-2011 at 11:40 AM

'My travels in Baja California bring many things to mind. The long horseback rides over miles of untraveled country, the lovely wild flowers after a rain, the strange cacti and trees to study, the rattlesnakes to make excitement, the gold, silver, copper, and onyx mines to learn about, the desert winds, the wild surf and cool sea breezes to enjoy. One would look up at the golden moon and wonder about all that is good, getting nearer to God and to nature and knowing there are many things which make one glad to be alive. The poet Rudyard Kipling perhaps said it best:

"Something hidden, go and find it.
Go and look behind the ranges
Something lost behind the ranges
Lost and waiting for you -- Go!" '

-Margaret Brown Baldwin, MEMORIES OF EARLY DAYS IN BAJA CALIFORNIA

David K - 4-28-2011 at 09:25 PM

Truck all loaded, Vern ('El Vergel') arrived this afternoon, great Mexican dinner and now a good night rest... We leave in the morning... Baja bound!

ddawson - 4-28-2011 at 10:17 PM

Awesome, take a lot of pics!

BAJACAT - 4-28-2011 at 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Quote:

Originally posted by BAJACAT
Im ready, gear is all pull apart from storage..will pack tomorrow afternoon...
DK are we taking the BLV 2000..to Popotla

Doesn't matter to me... I will leave that up to El Vergel... we miss two toll gates that way, or if we stay on the free road all the way to Ensenada, no tolls! :light:

I will top it off in National City, and I think I can make to El Rosario,if not I can get some in Sam quintin..

BAJACAT - 4-29-2011 at 06:07 AM

Well, @ this time Im just waiting for DK to call me and we are off to search for the elusive mission... I hope we can find the missionary gold so I can buy Mariz 06 Rubicon jeep ... :lol:

.
Just getting ready to have breakfast with my wife,with my kids in school,I will have to do this trip solo, this will be my second trip solo in more than 25 years...

I will be back with pictures and report..(if we find the gold no pictures or report:lol

David K - 4-29-2011 at 07:09 AM

Buenos Dias amigos!!

We should be on the road in 30 min. or less... but no rush no hury (no worry)...

Jose, I will call you when we are on the road... Naturally, there is morning traffic to deal with southbound. Woopie!!

bajajeffrey - 5-1-2011 at 01:45 PM

I gota know???
What did you find :?:

This wait is killing me..POST!

mtgoat666 - 5-1-2011 at 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajeffrey
I gota know???
What did you find :?:

This wait is killing me..POST!

i don't think they are back.

they chose a hot weather time to go. probably got no further than 100 yards from car before quitting to go back to car and drink in the shade,...

or, if they soldiered on thru the heat, perhaps they found the temple, with palm pool grottos and lost tribe of virgins (amazons, or so they say),... and they are still kicking themselves for having forgot the viagra at home!

elbeau - 5-1-2011 at 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajeffrey
I gota know???
What did you find :?:

This wait is killing me..POST!

On TW's trip, DK called me as soon as he heard anything. I agree, they probably aren't back yet.

David K - 5-2-2011 at 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau

Quote:

Originally posted by bajajeffrey
I gota know???
What did you find :?:

This wait is killing me..POST!

On TW's trip, DK called me as soon as he heard anything. I agree, they probably aren't back yet.

BACK!!!

and all I can say is WOW!!! :bounce:

and maybe also say it was FANTASTIC!!! :yes:

Look for reports coming soon... bajalou, dtbushpilot, XRPhil..., TW and Bill, BajaCat, El Vegel and I had a blast.

No sign of Ken Cooke and the Jeepers, however!

As we were questioned by border gaurd tonight he told us that Osama was caught... that was at 8:05pm, Tecate, Sunday night...

Anyway, I am exhausted... 10+ mile walk will do that in a desert sand arroyo!

bajalou discovered his quad trailer needed welding in El Rosario this afternoon about 2 pm.

More coming...

Lost Mission...? WOW! :cool:

BajaNomad - 5-2-2011 at 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

No sign of Ken Cooke and the Jeepers, however!

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=52666

David K - 5-2-2011 at 09:14 AM

I don't remember seeing any Jeep in my lane almost missing a head-on... sorry. BajaCat was behind me, and also never saw Ken's Jeep... No group of motorcycle riders, either... sorry!

We had a nice drive south talking and listening to satellite radio... At Arroyo El Volcan, we were wondering if Ken and the others would show up... but it didn't surprise anyone when he didn't... We figured Mision Santa Maria would have been enough... (I wonder if he even made it in there?).

So, of the three of us southbound, nobody saw Ken northbound. I don't doubt he saw us, as we would have been near Colonet about that time... I think we arrived in El Rosario around 2:30 Friday.

elbeau - 5-2-2011 at 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

BACK!!!

and all I can say is WOW!!! :bounce:

and maybe also say it was FANTASTIC!!! :yes:

Awesome, I'm glad you had a great time.

...any chance of a little more detailed description of the trip soon? :coolup:

dtbushpilot - 5-2-2011 at 11:08 AM

I, for one am working on my trip report. A report on an event of this magnitude can't be rushed. The stories that the participants of this adventure chronicle will no doubt be included in books of Baja lore for generations to come.

I encourage all the members of the lost mission quest to do their best to be honest about what we found and how we found it......dt

David K - 5-2-2011 at 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dtbushpilot
I, for one am working on my trip report. A report on an event of this magnitude can't be rushed. The stories that the participants of this adventure chronicle will no doubt be included in books of Baja lore for generations to come.

I encourage all the members of the lost mission quest to do their best to be honest about what we found and how we found it......dt

What he said! :light:

David K - 5-2-2011 at 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

BACK!!!

and all I can say is WOW!!! :bounce:

and maybe also say it was FANTASTIC!!! :yes:

Awesome, I'm glad you had a great time.

...any chance of a little more detailed description of the trip soon? :coolup:

Soon Beau, soon... and I did stand right on the very site... climbing the rocks to it, and across the ravine from it as well.

elbeau - 5-2-2011 at 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K

Soon Beau, soon... and I did stand right on the very site... climbing the rocks to it, and across the ravine from it as well.

Sounds great. Thank you all again for making the trip. I'll watch for your reports and stop pestering you to hurry.

David K - 5-2-2011 at 12:35 PM

I think due to the volume of photos, video clips and stories to tell, I will post the trip report in the Trip Reports Forum (with a link here to find it easily)...

Brian L - 5-2-2011 at 03:00 PM

So, you guys can't take 5 minutes and give the Reader's Digest version?

surfer jim - 5-2-2011 at 03:53 PM

Simmer down now..... :lol:

David K - 5-2-2011 at 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian L So, you guys can't take 5 minutes and give the Reader's Digest version?

I thought I did that already?

David K - 5-2-2011 at 04:28 PM

Seriously, there will be lots to read and see. everyone will post a trip report i believe. i am on my cell phone away from home now but before i left i did get started on part 1 of the trip report. i took almost 300 photos and vern took around 400 plus several video clips. this was a great trip because of the location and people. el volcan is an awesome region of an awesome peninsula.

bajalou - 5-2-2011 at 05:54 PM

Well, I'm back in San Felipe. Got home about a hour ago, so I might post some of the secrets tomorrow.

Great trip and really great people -

Oh and I didn't have to abandon anything along the road----

mcfez - 5-2-2011 at 06:01 PM

This show is worst than "LOST"

BAJACAT - 5-2-2011 at 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David K
I don't remember seeing any Jeep in my lane almost missing a head-on... sorry. BajaCat was behind me, and also never saw Ken's Jeep... No group of motorcycle riders, either... sorry!

We had a nice drive south talking and listening to satellite radio... At Arroyo El Volcan, we were wondering if Ken and the others would show up... but it didn't surprise anyone when he didn't... We figured Mision Santa Maria would have been enough... (I wonder if he even made it in there?).

So, of the three of us southbound, nobody saw Ken northbound. I don't doubt he saw us, as we would have been near Colonet about that time... I think we arrived in El Rosario around 2:30 Friday.

David I did saw the jeeps , but never it cross mi mind that it was Ken, I thought he was in EL Volcan wating for us. I will add to any trip report that you guys make I will not make on of my own,,lots of pictures...and great stories...thanks all that took the time to make this happen it was a blast..

David K - 5-2-2011 at 09:33 PM

Part 1 of my Trip Report posted (with photos): http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=52696

TMW - 5-2-2011 at 11:45 PM

Glad you made it home OK lou.

A great trip with great people to the land of the lost. Three wonderful filled nights in a wind blown arroyo where the truth and fiction sometimes get blurred over the toasting of fine wine. I'm leaving for the NORRA race Wednesday morning so I'll do a report when I return. I can add the corral photos and the area across from it. All I can say for now is if you were not there you missed a wonderful event.

elbeau - 5-3-2011 at 08:36 AM

It is with regret that I inform everyone that the Internet has run out if space so there is no possible way to post even a brief description of the sites.

TMW - 5-3-2011 at 11:01 AM

The race car I was going to chased in the NORRA race is out with engine problems so I'm going to stay home and rest from the mission hunt and work on the trip report.

bajalou - 5-3-2011 at 11:06 AM

Too bad Tom, but after last weekend, we can use some rest.

bryanmckenzie - 5-3-2011 at 11:51 AM

Memory stack overflow --- the Internet is full.

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau
It is with regret that I inform everyone that the Internet has run out if space so there is no possible way to post even a brief description of the sites.

elbeau - 5-3-2011 at 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bryanmckenzie
Memory stack overflow --- the Internet is full.

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau
It is with regret that I inform everyone that the Internet has run out if space so there is no possible way to post even a brief description of the sites.

mtgoat666 - 5-6-2011 at 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by elbeau
Santa Isabel Found - not joking - nomad wanted

All joking aside, I believe I have found the site of what people call the lost mission of Santa Isabel using Google Earth...please pause here to laugh

...

Now that you're done laughing, please look closely at the images in this post. One is a rough drawing I made of what I think I see there. The other is a screenshot from Google Earth converted to grayscale. The site matches the location and description from at least three of the most popular legend stories, and it is built on a MUCH LARGER complex of ancient sites that will rewrite what is known of pre-columbian Baja civilization.

I've tried contacting nine different professors from various parts of academia. Only one of them gave me the time of day and he loves what he sees, but like myself, he wants someone to go onsite to confirm it.

I'd love to go onsite, but I'm the father of four daughters (one with special needs) and I'm a 26 hour drive from the site and I really can't get away for a trip like that.

So...I'm looking for a nomad with an adventurous spirit who is willing to drive to a remote spot in Baja California and then hike for about 3 miles to the site. There will be MANY other ruins along the way. Before you go I will provide Google Earth KML files so that you can look at the area yourself and make sure I'm not just a nutjob.

All joking aside, if this does pan out and I really am seeing what I think I'm seeing, this site is vulnerable to looting and needs to be protected as much as possible. Mexican government involvement is a must as soon as we have confirmation of the site.

So, if you're interested in writing yourself into this story, please let me know. I won't listen to anybody who isn't a long-time active member of this site because to open this up to anybody would only increase the chances that someone with the wrong intentions would get to go there. I will also want a promise that you will not disturb ANYTHING at the site.

Any takers?

If not, I'll start posting more and more and more pictures of architecture and ancient public works projects until someone bites.

I know it's hard to understand the scale of what you are looking at in these pics and I know how well our eyes can get tricked by Google Earth, but trust me, these images hold up under scrutiny.

hey, did anyone ever find the lost city of elbow? :lol:

wilderone - 5-6-2011 at 07:38 AM

Funny - I think that should be the new name for Site B - Rancho Elbow. I'm going to go eventually and look for everything that was missed by those yokels; and I'll put up a sign.

David K - 5-6-2011 at 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wilderone
Funny - I think that should be the new name for Site B - Rancho Elbow. I'm going to go eventually and look for everything that was missed by those yokels; and I'll put up a sign.

It really was a great hike as that canyon is wild with geology! I just posted the photos of the site... Part 2 of my trip report: http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=52735

[Edited on 5-6-2011 by David K]

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