BajaNomad

Request for current reports of Mordida in Ciudad Constitution

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Iflyfish - 7-6-2010 at 04:20 PM

I just received this email from ACS, Tijuana

Dear Sir,

Thank you for informing the consulate about these incidents occurring in Ciudad Constitution. We would be able to reach out to the local government, but would require more information. Would you be able to supply data on specific incidents that have occurred in the last week, especially the date, time, and location?

American Citizen Services

US Consulate General Tijuana

ACSTijuana@state.gov

SBU

This email is UNCLASSIFIED.

Please send your accounts of recent cases of police extortion in Ciudad Constitution to

ACS, Tijuana

ACSTijuana@state.gov

Please also U2U a copy of your email to me at my U2U box.

Thank you, we are being heard now and it is time to ACT.

Iflyfish

edited to provide appology for multiple posts but this is important information for those who may not have been following the other threads. thank you for your patience and consideration. We may be getting some where and people want to know what to do.

[Edited on 7-6-2010 by Iflyfish]

surfer jim - 7-6-2010 at 04:36 PM

It will be interesting to see what this leads to.

Iflyfish - 7-6-2010 at 09:55 PM

One person has already sent their report on their experience of police extortion to ACS.

This is a begining. We have found an agency willing to address this. We have more clout than we did a day ago. Send more reports now!!

I hope others will do this so they have a number of reports to substantiate their involvement in this matter. This is a US agency so they are very likely to do what they can to address this.

Now is the time to send them your report of what happened to you in Ciudad Constitution. We need to let them know that this is not an isolated incident. Please act now.

Send your report to ACSTijuana@state.gov and title it Police Extortion in Ciudad Constitution. be as specific as possible.

Please send me a U2U also. I will keep your confidence if you wish, it is not necessary to U2U me, if you do then I can share with Nomads that another report has been sent. There is strength in numbers.

Tag, you are it! We need more reports NOW!!

Lets stop this police extortion in Ciudad Constitution.

Nomads donate money, time and effort to help the people of Baja, now is the time to help other Nomads deal with this very real issue.

Thanks,

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 7-7-2010 at 06:24 AM

Bump

Skeet/Loreto - 7-7-2010 at 07:43 AM

flyfish:

Do you not realize that this kind of thing happens all over Baja and mainland Mexico??
It is a national way of the Polkiceman getting Paid with out having to go through collecting Taxes!!
Please send me the Identification of the vehicle you will be in on your next trip.
I am contacting my friends in Constitution, which includes the Mayor, and

warning them of your interferance!!!.

DENNIS - 7-7-2010 at 07:49 AM

Now you've done it, Rick. You've gone and got Skeet all peed-off. You and your efforts are doomed. Polkicemen all over the place. :biggrin:

rhintransit - 7-7-2010 at 07:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
flyfish:

Do you not realize that this kind of thing happens all over Baja and mainland Mexico??
It is a national way of the Polkiceman getting Paid with out having to go through collecting Taxes!!
Please send me the Identification of the vehicle you will be in on your next trip.
I am contacting my friends in Constitution, which includes the Mayor, and

warning them of your interferance!!!.


I say...good on iflyfish. my comments on those of you who want to sit by and feel superior and worldlier than thou 'that's the way it is' (you ignorant foolish children)' can be found on the other CC threads.

Skeet/Loreto - 7-7-2010 at 08:18 AM

transit"
Reason I have friends in Constitution:

In 1992 my wife became ill while we were living in Loreto. Took her to the General hospital in Constitution where she was diaginosed with Perinitous and given 4 Hours to Live!
Dr. Morales operated on a Sunday Afternoon and saved her life. Later we became friends with many of the people of Constitution and set up the "Warm Jackets for Cold Kids" Charity.

Baja belongs to the Mesicanos, not the Dumb Ass Americanos who think they can change every thing to their own way!!
Get A Life!!
Get some Morals, Such as Honesty and Integerity;

MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS

DENNIS - 7-7-2010 at 08:23 AM

Good goin', RT. Now you have him whipped to a frenzy. I've seen it before and it ain't a pretty sight.
Does anybody out there have a tranquilizer gun? :lol::lol:

wilderone - 7-7-2010 at 08:40 AM

"Get some Morals, Such as Honesty and Integerity"

Would be nice if that applied to everyone regardless of citizenship.
In the old days, a $10 hit now and then might be considered part of the culture. But a blatant, organized system of extortion perpetrated on gringos in the manner that has been reported, apparently involving most of the local police force, is criminal action - not a cute story to tell about "what I did on my vacation."
Your experience is part of the good 'ole days.

Skeet/Loreto - 7-7-2010 at 08:52 AM

Wildone.

"involving most of the Police Dept" is not a true statement and should be so noted.

I have many Friends in Constitution, and know a lot of the important p[eople in the City Govt. It is a group of very hard working individuals and from some of their Words and actions they are not in the least interested in your Tourists Dollars as you speed through their Town..

I suggest that if you are traveling that way to turn off at Fresno go the back way around Constitution. It is an interesting drive.

Wildone: When are you Youngsters going to Learn that People are Different and many prefer to stay "Different' than other people of the World.

Iflyfish - 7-7-2010 at 09:34 AM

Thank you Skeet/Loreto, I appreciate the wisdom of your experience and hope you will tell your friends to read these stupid threads, viewed by Nomads over 10,000 times, on how the police in Ciudad Constitution are extorting money from US Citizens who are traveling on the ONLY Federal Highway between Baja N and Baja S and on how they are losing thousands of pesos each day this continues.

I appreciate your concern about your fellow Nomads and their safety.

In my 48 years of traveling all over the Republic of Mexico I have never had available to me the collective power of the internet nor the wonderful help of my amigos, the Baja Nomads! For this I am grateful.

I also hope you will send a copy of your post to ACS, ACSTijuana@state.gov
who I am certain will appreciate your sentiments supporting this criminal activity.

There are now three people who have told me they are sending their reports to

American Citizen Services

US Consulate General Tijuana

ACSTijuana@state.gov

Please send reports of your experience with police extortion to ACS, we need your emails now! If you have had friends experience this harrassment I hope you will also encourage them to send emails to the above address. If you are on other message boards I encourage you to also share this campaign with them.

Thank you for your efforts.

Iflyfish

Skeet/Loreto - 7-7-2010 at 10:06 AM

flyfish: Is it not great that 2 people can disagree??

Constitution is a very special place to me because of my experience in getting to know its History and the great People who have become friends.

Fish, I know you like Baja as I do but your efforts aganist Criminal Activities should be in the Country where you are a Citizen,


I urge anyone going through Constitution to avoid going through on the main Road, there are good roads around the South End just below the Prison.
Another thing good about Constitution is it's excellent Health Care and Medical Facilites-3 Hospitals- their very good care of the Children in the
Area.

Skeet/Loreto - 7-7-2010 at 10:19 AM

For those who enjoy good food, at the second light right down down there is a good Taco Stand, alled Tonys that has some very good Fish Tacos.

Also a trip over to the Public Market is interesting. Lots of small shops around the Square with lots of different things..

As you get through the Main street, on the right is a Bancomer and across the street is another Great Taco Stand operated by two women and one of the girls working there has a Great Set of Boobs!!

vandenberg - 7-7-2010 at 10:20 AM

Skeet.
Oh thee, of high morals and integrity and apparent superior intellect, (although you would never know it by your prose) why don't you do all Nomads a favor and contact "all" those friends, including the mayor, and make them aware of the situation. Would do a lot more good then pontificating about your wonderful time in this Bakersfield of the south.

Iflyfish - 7-7-2010 at 10:39 AM

Three reports of extortion by police in Ciudad Constitution now sent to

US Consulate General Tijuana

ACSTijuana@state.gov.

Keep 'em coming

vandenberg
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I hope that Skeet will indeed tell his friends in this town how tourists are being freightened away and thousands of pesos are lost each day to these great local businesses he is telling us about.

One never knows when the right word in the right place might have some real impact. We are all Nomads and do wonderful things for the people of Baja and for our fellow Nomads. There is power in our collective knowledge and experience.

Report you experience with the illegal police extortion of US Citizens in Ciudad Constitution on the only Federal Highway we have to get from Baja Norte to Baja Sur. Ask your friends to do the same. Post this request on other sites you belong to. Find ways to let others know about this violation of Mexican Law and subversion of the Federal Government's attempts to stop this sort of self defeating behavior that is costing Mexico Millions of Pesos per year.

ACSTijuana@state.gov.

Iflyfish

DENNIS - 7-7-2010 at 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
one of the girls working there has a Great Set of Boobs!!


Well, there you are, folks. This is where your scope of concern should be, on the important issues in life.
Forget extortion..Forget crime...Forget everything other than this world record rack in a taco shop.
Thanks, Skeet, for turning on the lights. We all see better for your guidance. :light:

KASHEYDOG - 7-7-2010 at 11:04 AM

Hey guys!! Let's lighten it up a bit. Either somebody "get a rope" or Skeet, how about posting some pictures of those GREAT TACOS :bounce::lol::bounce:

[Edited on 7-7-10 by KASHEYDOG]

Woooosh - 7-7-2010 at 11:57 AM

video, video, video. Mexico is addicted to YouTube videos at all levels of media and gov't. They even use YouTube for internal video communications because it's easy to use and free. IMHO transparency is exactly what the corrupt fear most- and nothing is more transparent than a video. Mexicans never believe what they hear- but they will watch and believe what they can see with their own eyes. I've had success with PROFEPA by using a YouTube video put out in the local media.

Get one of these on eBay, make your case on video, and then run for your life...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Covert-Spy-Hat-Camera-Recorder-Audio-Vid...

[Edited on 7-7-2010 by Woooosh]

Bajamatic - 7-7-2010 at 12:30 PM

"Fish, I know you like Baja as I do but your efforts against Criminal Activities should be in the Country where you are a Citizen"

HMMM. So if I just got robbed at gunpoint - in Canada - where I frequently travel. According to the above comment, I should just shrug it off because I'm not a citizen? This is a stupid argument fueled way more by emotion that logic. Mexico as a whole can only benefit if groups, gringo or mexicano, organize and bring injustices out from under the shadows. There is no downside to this, unless of course you're on the take....

This Problem Must Be a Big Deal

Bajahowodd - 7-7-2010 at 12:35 PM

From the Wiki page about Constitucion:

"Travel warning: The city police in Constitucion are quite corrupt. If travelling thru town by road, 1/4 of gringo tourist vehicles are stopped by the police and extorted for money for contrived violations. If so confronted, do not pay - DEMAND to be escorted to the police station to see a judge and pay the "fine" there. Officers looking for street-side bribes are rather timid, because they know they are doing wrong, and can be intimidated by a firm, indignant response."

Osprey - 7-7-2010 at 12:50 PM

Robin Wade of Western Outdoor News posted the notice to report on The Baja Pony Express today. That's 2,200 more irate gringos who might send an Email too. Now I'll send the Consulate info to The Western Onion on the Pacific side.

We wouldn't have to do all this if Margaret was still alive. She was my mother in law. I once put a lifesize poster of her in our cornfield and the crows brought back corn they stole two years earlier.

gnukid - 7-7-2010 at 01:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
flyfish:

Do you not realize that this kind of thing happens all over Baja and mainland Mexico??
It is a national way of the Polkiceman getting Paid with out having to go through collecting Taxes!!
Please send me the Identification of the vehicle you will be in on your next trip.
I am contacting my friends in Constitution, which includes the Mayor, and

warning them of your interferance!!!.


Ain't that the POT Calling the keTtle BLACK! I see your mail as interference in a police investigation and a threat to the viCtims which are both criminal.

I git the feeling that Skeet aint SKEET or that we are bing had because the sKeeT I know wouldn't outta do nutin of this sort or what not.

Something is fishy!

Iflyfish - 7-7-2010 at 01:07 PM

Yes!! Now is the time to use what ever pull you have to stop this Illegal Extortion of US Citizens on the ONLY Federal Highway that connects Baja Norte with Baja Sur.

Be the agent of change, good work Nomads, keep this up and we MAY get somewhere! If not for yourself then do this for your fellow Nomads who must run this gauntlet in order to live in Baja. Huelga! Strike!

ACS has requested that you send emails with details of your encounter with Extortion by Police in Ciudad Constitution to:

American Citizen Services

US Consulate General Tijuana

ACSTijuana@state.gov

Think of other ways that you can raise public awareness of what it going on and continue to Make News!

Yofetchapescasconmibuenamigosbajanomads!

Iflyfish - 7-7-2010 at 01:14 PM

"An ant on the move does more than a dozing ox"

Well said, very well said indeed! We are an ant hill!!

Now as to mother in laws, I surely do wish your mother in law was around to deal with this so I could just go fishing in peace. Now my mother in law.....that's another story for another day....good work Osprey!! We'll go over that ground over one of the beers I am going to buy you!!

When Ciudad Constitution stops their police from illegally extorting money from US Citizens who must travel thru their town maybe we should have a Nomad Celebration in Ciudad Constitution and spend a LOT OF MONEY!

Would that make you happy Skeet/Loreto?

Iflyfish

Osprey - 7-7-2010 at 01:19 PM

Whew! Who knows where this thing could lead? Now, for my glovebox I have the Villegas name and phone number, some of Skeet’s posts, the U.S. Consulate Email saying they’ll look into it, copies of the Baja Pony Express and the Baja Western Onion.

And who knows what the Mexicans will do? There could be payback. You never know. And they have guns. So I’m also putting in there the disclaimer (in English, Spanish and Portuguese) below (English).

I, we, us, have nothing to do with IFLYFISH. He’s the one who started this, we knew nothing about it. He lives up north somewhere. He started all of this from the U.S., from up north there somewhere and I, we, us were not involved in any of his shenanigans against the police or the city government of CC or any other little town down there.

Date:
Signature: Osprey (for example)

Gotta go. Gotta meet Enrique so he can help me make a bigger glovebox. Whew.

Iflyfish - 7-7-2010 at 01:24 PM

O
exactly, bad friends in good places! huelga!

better super size the old glovebox O, we ain't done yet

our mexican nomad friends don't like this either! basta mordida in CC!

Iflyfishfurtherawaythananybajabullitcanfly

mtgoat666 - 7-7-2010 at 01:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
From the Wiki page about Constitucion:

"Travel warning: The city police in Constitucion are quite corrupt. If travelling thru town by road, 1/4 of gringo tourist vehicles are stopped by the police and extorted for money for contrived violations. If so confronted, do not pay - DEMAND to be escorted to the police station to see a judge and pay the "fine" there. Officers looking for street-side bribes are rather timid, because they know they are doing wrong, and can be intimidated by a firm, indignant response."


that edit was by a wikipedia newbie (one time editor),... smells fishy!

Bajahowodd - 7-7-2010 at 01:54 PM

:lol::lol::lol:

Bajatripper - 7-7-2010 at 02:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
flyfish:

Do you not realize that this kind of thing happens all over Baja and mainland Mexico??


I beg to differ, Skeet. What has been happening in Ciudad Constitucion is highly unusual, even by Mexican standards. Last summer, I took the ferry to Topolobampo, and proceeded to drive out to Cancun, QR, first along the Pacific Coast and returning along the Gulf of Mexico before exiting Mexico into West Texas. I returned to La Paz via Tecate. During the whole trip, I was only pulled over in Cd. Constitucion--the only place I know I wasn't violating any traffic laws.

Bad luck? Perhaps, but I doubt it. I've been pulled over more than a few times in my travels throughout Mexico, but only in Cd. Constitucion do I ever feel like I didn't deserve it.

Perhaps if you lived at some point south of CC, you'd have a different perspective.

[Edited on 7-7-2010 by Bajatripper]

Bajahowodd - 7-7-2010 at 04:00 PM

I kinda think that Skeet may have inadvertently hit upon something. Leaving aside folk who live in Loreto and La Paz, the bulk of the traffic passing through Cd. Constitucion is doing just that; passing through. Leaving out the nearby fishing and whale-watching activities in Mag Bay, fact is that a whole lotta Baja travelers don't even stop in CC. And perhaps, many of those same folks consider the experience of driving through town to be an annoyance during their drive between La Paz and Loreto. Just thinking that some locals may just feel that they get no respect, via tourist dollars, and voila! they exact a penalty. I'm probably gonna regret even mentioning this again, but I've driven through that town probably 60 times over the years and have never been molested by the cops. I will also confess to the fact that in those 60+ passages, I think I had a couple of meals at El Taste, and I bought gas, but not even in town, rather at the Pemex by the turn at Insurgentes. Maybe I'm the odd one (no jokes about the name), but I really have to consider that so many folks who make the trip Loreto-La Paz, come upon this town having been driving through miles and miles of wilderness from either end. I can understand why they might just think that the town is an inconvenience to them.

Dave - 7-7-2010 at 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajatripper
I've been pulled over more than a few times in my travels throughout Mexico, but only in Cd. Constitucion do I ever feel like I didn't deserve it.


I wish we could get away from labeling what's happening in Ciudad Constitucion as mordida. It's extortion. Maybe benevolent to some but extortion just the same. As practiced in Mexico, bribery is mostly voluntary and usually beneficial to both parties.

This ain't that.

mtgoat666 - 7-7-2010 at 04:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajatripper
Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
flyfish:

Do you not realize that this kind of thing happens all over Baja and mainland Mexico??


I beg to differ, Skeet. What has been happening in Ciudad Constitucion is highly unusual, even by Mexican standards. Last summer, I took the ferry to Topolobampo, and proceeded to drive out to Cancun, QR, first along the Pacific Coast and returning along the Gulf of Mexico before exiting Mexico into West Texas. I returned to La Paz via Tecate. During the whole trip, I was only pulled over in Cd. Constitucion--the only place I know I wasn't violating any traffic laws.

Bad luck? Perhaps, but I doubt it. I've been pulled over more than a few times in my travels throughout Mexico, but only in Cd. Constitucion do I ever feel like I didn't deserve it.

Perhaps if you lived at some point south of CC, you'd have a different perspective.

[Edited on 7-7-2010 by Bajatripper]


it would be better if the cops targeted the people actually committing moving violations. (perhaps they are, and the people complaining here are senile and unaware they drive poorly?? :lol: )
perhaps it would be better if the cops requested smaller bribes, say about $10 US?

mtgoat666 - 7-7-2010 at 04:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dave
I wish we could get away from labeling what's happening in Ciudad Constitucion as mordida. It's extortion. Maybe benevolent to some but extortion just the same.


i think it is a "tax" :lol:

someone told me on another thread that "fees" and all payments to govt officials (e.g. bribes, fines) are simply "taxes" masquerading under another name :lol:

Woooosh - 7-7-2010 at 04:38 PM

Dave got it right IMHO. We can look at payments made to PGJE and other gov't officials as a "User Tax" because both parties benefit in either streamlined service or getting the cash. A mordida is for when you do something wrong and decide to negotiate yourself out of the situation with cash (minor accident with no insurance, traffic violations). What this thread is discussing is extortion- because the outcome is not determined by anything the victim wants in exchange or because he has done something wrong.

gnukid - 7-7-2010 at 05:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I kinda think that Skeet may have inadvertently hit upon something. Leaving aside folk who live in Loreto and La Paz, the bulk of the traffic passing through Cd. Constitucion is doing just that; passing through. Leaving out the nearby fishing and whale-watching activities in Mag Bay, fact is that a whole lotta Baja travelers don't even stop in CC. And perhaps, many of those same folks consider the experience of driving through town to be an annoyance during their drive between La Paz and Loreto. Just thinking that some locals may just feel that they get no respect, via tourist dollars, and voila! they exact a penalty. I'm probably gonna regret even mentioning this again, but I've driven through that town probably 60 times over the years and have never been molested by the cops. I will also confess to the fact that in those 60+ passages, I think I had a couple of meals at El Taste, and I bought gas, but not even in town, rather at the Pemex by the turn at Insurgentes. Maybe I'm the odd one (no jokes about the name), but I really have to consider that so many folks who make the trip Loreto-La Paz, come upon this town having been driving through miles and miles of wilderness from either end. I can understand why they might just think that the town is an inconvenience to them.


Your 'this never happens to me', is of no relevance. By the way, you say this type of thing often. That would be like saying everyone who was ever murdered is irrelevet because it didn't happen to you, which lacks empathy for those who have been hit up repeatedly.

CC is a center for farming and a successful town that has business where people work and live, like every city in the world people can either pursue business work or not-but that doesn't justify crime, it is not incumbent on others to stop in any city and give money, each resident of CC must pursue legal business just as you or I.

Your reasoning lacks empathy and isn't really helpful right now while help is being requested for those who are targeted.

If you have something positive to add, for example some reasoning as to why you do not get pulled over perhaps that could be helpful.

The real issue is that corruption has flourished there because it is allowed to flourish. Now it's going to stop because the community will no longer tolerate it.

Marc - 7-7-2010 at 06:11 PM

Skeet, with your way of thought Mexico will always be just another third world p--- hole.

DENNIS - 7-7-2010 at 06:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Marc
Skeet, with your way of thought Mexico will always be just another third world p--- hole.



Lay off Skeet. If you don't know his function and esteemed position here....leave him alone.

Iflyfish - 7-7-2010 at 10:17 PM

Skeet said "flyfish: Is it not great that 2 people can disagree??"

He is right; we just disagree about how to deal with this. He believes that efforts like we are making will result in nothing happening. He might be right about this. I however want to do what we can to expose this problem in the hopes that Nomads can travel to and thru Ciudad Constitution and not be exposed to this extortion. This would be good for all of us and for the people and businesses of this fine city that we Nomads have helped so much during the last hurricane.

I may be tilting at windmills and Skeet’s and others assessment may be right. I don't have a dog in the who’s right/wrong game. Skeet is just expressing himself in his inimitable style. Let’s keep focused on the task.

If you have experienced Police Extortion in Ciudad Constitution or know people who have please have them send a report via email to the address below.

American Citizen Services

US Consulate General Tijuana

ACSTijuana@state.gov

If you know people, as Skeet does, who might be able to help us stop this criminal behavior and the hemorrhaging of tourist dollars that flow out of this, then please let them know to get the word out to whomever might be able to help us stop this hijacking of US Citizens on the ONLY Federal Highway that connects North and South Baja.

Thank you,

Iflyfish

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 06:37 AM

Marc:
I see that you are a Junior member of this Board. It may be that you are lacking in Experience about Baja.
I have been going there since 1967, living there full time for 16 years and found that I had more Freedom than I do in the States.
I also think it woyuld be much better for Mexico to stay the same than to change to a "Drug riddin DOPE Country of Young uneducated Whimps"".

Skeet

rhintransit - 7-8-2010 at 06:44 AM

as to someone making "over 60 trips thru Constituion" and never having a problem..."over the years" doesn't reflect the current reality. the blatant extortion has only been going on for about nine months, hitting a high and continuing level since February 2010. please make a few trips through now and report back. I made three or four 'successful' round trips in January/February, utilizing back streets and very careful driving, but the south of town cop block has now been moved further out to counter that. I live in a small community south of Loreto and I estimate, from their reports, that 60-70% of people I know from here making the trip have been stopped in the past few months, a number of those getting hit twice, once southbound, once northbound.
I do not like feeling 'hostage' to wondering if I can run the gauntlet successfully each time I think about driving thru the city.

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 06:49 AM

Flyfish:
After 38 years visiting an living in Mesico, talking to my many Friends, I learned that many, many of the Mesicanos are taught in their Early years that the United States stole Calif. and the Southwestfrom Mesico and that they should at every opportunity try to get even by getting anything from an Americano Possible.
This idea can be seen in many of the books writtin about Mexico.

My friends tell me the following."When the Americanos learn that 30kmh is not 40 MPH we will stop giving them Tickets"" Tell them the 30kph signs were installed when it was discovered that the Americanos could not Read!!!
You do not make a legal Left or Right Turn if you are part way into the intersection. You are required to stay where you are and not move until the light changes to Green.

I will strongly urge everyone that writes a letter of Protest to the Tourism Bureau to keep a copy and if stopped, show it to the Officer.

Finally, Constitution was formed many years ago by some very hardworking ///families and Groups from Interior mexico. Whole villages were moved to take advantage of the Newly discovered Water. Over the years they have worked hard and made their families and Lives just as important as some of thos hard working Families in the States.

Skeet

fishabductor - 7-8-2010 at 07:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I also think it woyuld be much better for Mexico to stay the same than to change to a "Drug riddin DOPE Country of Young uneducated Whimps"".

Skeet


Now that's funny...I forgot that most of Mexico's youth are highly educated and 100% sober.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 07:31 AM

Off Subject:

Challenge:
I challenge you to attend a 6th or 7th Grade Class in one of the Schools in Constitution then attend the same Grade Class ain any large City in the States, then come back and report the Truth.

It is unbeleivable what goes on in an Ameican Public School , There are a lot of Dummies setting in class with their Text Machines not learning a Thing. Just think the few that do pay attention and learn will controll those Dummies doing the Twitter.

Skeet

fishabductor - 7-8-2010 at 07:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Off Subject:

Challenge:
I challenge you to attend a 6th or 7th Grade Class in one of the Schools in Constitution then attend the same Grade Class ain any large City in the States, then come back and report the Truth.

It is unbeleivable what goes on in an Ameican Public School , There are a lot of Dummies setting in class with their Text Machines not learning a Thing. Just think the few that do pay attention and learn will controll those Dummies doing the Twitter.

Skeet


I agree.... to an extent. But there are lots and lots of kids in mexico who don't go to school. There are lots and lots of kids drinking and doing drugs at a very young age.

The same goes for Mexico as far as paying attention , the ones that pay attention and excel are the ones that are going to run the country in the upcoming years. And hopefully they'll change mexico for the better.

[Edited on 7-8-2010 by fishabductor]

Iflyfish - 7-8-2010 at 07:46 AM

Skeet,

It is true that ethnocentricity is not only characteristic of people from the USofA, it is also alive and well in Mexico. "We don't attach that third wire to a ground here in Mexico, we don't need it here, they do that up north". It was an act of god when no one attached the ground wire to the Hacienda where we set up our clinic and our equipment blew up! "Mexican brains are better than the brains of people up north". I was told this when I was engaged in brain research and neurofeedback in the USofA and Mexico. I have heard it all Skeet.

I love Mexico and it's people. Through out history Mexicans have been known for their friendliness, hospitality and kindness. There is a very strong religious backbone in Mexico and values are important to most of the people.

There is a horrible wave of violence now wracking Mexico and it has cost Mexico dearly. Tourism is one of the major sources of income for Mexico and it is way down in large part because of criminal behavior and FEAR that people will be molested by criminals in Mexico.

We have all read stories and seen pictures of police being involved in murder, drug running, kidnapping and extortion. We have clear evidence that the Police of Ciudad Constitution are engaging in Extortion. Why would we not fear that they may also either be engaged in or will engage in Kidnapping, Murder and the Drug trade? It is a very slippery slope when we allow "minor" criminal behavior is accepted as normative. This is why it is important to cover graffiti as soon as it appears. Minor crime results in a corrosion of community values. Mexicans do not like their police stealing from them either.

When police stop and shake down visitors on the ONLY Federal highway that connects North and South Baja that further impacts tourism and the economy of local communities. It is a gauntlet for people who live in and near Ciudad Constitution that requires them to be FEARFUL each time they drive thru that town. Fear and intimidation are the tools used by criminals to pacify their victims.

If people have experienced Police Extortion in Ciudad Constitution in the recent past I hope they will join the others who have sent detailed reports of their experience to:

American Citizen Services

US Consulate General Tijuana

ACSTijuana@state.gov

We now have a powerful tool that can be used to communicate with each other and numbers to support us in addressing this issue. I hope that all Nomads will use whatever means at their disposal to spread the news. Report Extortion in Ciudad Constitution and provide this information to everyone you can. Now is this time to act. Now is not the time to snipe at each other or engage in superficial dialogue. Do this for your fellow Nomads and the good people of Ciudad Constitution and cities to the south that are being affected by this criminal activity.

Iflyfish

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 08:19 AM

Flyfish: There are many more ways to help the Tourists going "On the only Federal Highway"" than writing some letters that will be dumped in a Trash Can.

First you must realize that Tourists are Viloating the 30 kph speed limit as they have not learned the difference between Miles Per Hour. Many of the Stops are justified and Accruate!!! That also goes for entering an Intersection when the light changes .

There is much more Criminal Activity going on in the Streets of CABO than anywhere in Baja. Those Criminal Activites are being committed by Tourists!!

Positive:
It my belief I think that the change back to the PRI will in the next few years change some parts of Baja and Mexico for the good. Time will tell.

Mexico will never basically change unless the People decide an start a Revolution.
I would not like it to change like the Bad Changes occurring in the States.

Skeet

DENNIS - 7-8-2010 at 08:47 AM

Hey Skeet...Do you have any photos of that waitress with the humongous hooters? This is really important. :wow:

fishabductor - 7-8-2010 at 08:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

First you must realize that Tourists are Viloating the 30 kph speed limit as they have not learned the difference between Miles Per Hour. Many of the Stops are justified and Accruate!!! That also goes for entering an Intersection when the light changes .
Skeet


What's your badge Number?

gnukid - 7-8-2010 at 08:56 AM

There is something suspicious about Skeets emails. if you read Skeets email in the past they were earnest and had quite a few typos and a certain style, these recent emails are far more formed, well written sort of mimicking the old style, and now Skeet mentions Twitter? No way. And Skeet would not focus on the US he talks about Mexico. Something fishy here.

tfinbaja - 7-8-2010 at 09:04 AM

I'm going to be driving North through CC next week (just passing through). What does everyone think about this strategy:

Drive slow (below 30 kph or whatever is posted), stop at every intersection that doesn't have a stop light (being careful about anyone behind me of course), and only drive through solid green lights, not flashing.

Thoughts?

[Edited on 7-8-2010 by tfinbaja]

[Edited on 7-8-2010 by tfinbaja]

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 09:13 AM

Flyfish:
I will Hope and Pray that all Tourists going through Constitution would do something:

In the States get a Couple of old Suitcases, fill them with Warm Jackets that will fit from3 to 13. As you go into Constitution about 2 Blocks West of the main Center of Town is the General Hospital. Take the Suitcases with Jackets there and ask for the Director. Give him the Jackests and tell him they are from the "Warm Jackets for Cold Kids Charity. That a guy called "Mosco} ask you to bring them.

The Kids of Western Constitution will thank you as I will.

No gnukid ; It is me. I have just had my very smart and lovely Granddaughter visiting me. She helped me in a Number of ways. Made me realize that our Schools are in worse shape than I had originally thought them to be!!We had some very good Discussions which show me that all those Twitter,Text, Internuts, are Dummies for not looking around and having direct Contact with People. She will be a Leader some day!!

I would like very much to see some of you Cry-Baby Weak-minded,Whimps, start figuting out Solutions to the Problems, instead of spending your time :Blaming" everyone else for your own Shortcomings!!

Same Ole Skeet!

Dave - 7-8-2010 at 09:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tfinbaja
I'm going to be driving North through CC next week (just passing through). What does everyone think about this strategy:

Drive slow (below 30 kph or whatever is posted), stop at every intersection that doesn't have a stop light (being careful about anyone behind me of course), and only drive through solid green lights, not flashing.

Thoughts?



As long as you have honesty, integrity and 'mind your own business' you'll be fine.

Skeet has assured us.

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 09:19 AM

Fishabductor"

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rhintransit - 7-8-2010 at 09:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

First you must realize that Tourists are Viloating the 30 kph speed limit as they have not learned the difference between Miles Per Hour. Many of the Stops are justified and Accruate!!! That also goes for entering an Intersection when the light changes .

Skeet


Skeet, your affection for Mexico/Mexicans is apparent in your posts and I have no doubt that your love and affection for many of the citizens of Constitucion is based on long term and valid personal experience. perhaps you could use your influence there to let the good folks know what a negative view of their city the police are generating among the foreign community.

of course some inexperienced tourists may not realize the difference between kms and miles, and many more may think the posted limits are too low, especially when passed at higher speeds by drivers of all nationalities. regardless, exceeding the speed limit is illegal anywhere. entering an intersection after the light changes is common both sides of the border and, yes, is a traffic violation in both countries.

as to the current flurry of stops in Constitucion: during the time frame under discussion, I have personally heard of NO one (among my many friends and acquaintances who have been stopped) saying speeding was the alleged infraction. nor, if I remember correctly, has speeding been mentioned in the current three threads on the subject...I could be wrong, though, I admit thinking of reading through all those pages again just makes me tired. not stopping at a stop sign or non-functional light (I agree that this may be justified in some cases), paper/registration checks of USA plated cars (DWG), and the now popular and mostly mythical not stopping for pedestrian(s) in the crosswalk are the most common charges currently. since none of the traffic lights have worked since the last hurricane, entering an intersection when the light changes is a moot point.

any assistance you could give in solving the current problem would be most appreciated.

rhintransit - 7-8-2010 at 09:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tfinbaja
I'm going to be driving North through CC next week (just passing through). What does everyone think about this strategy:

Drive slow (below 30 kph or whatever is posted), stop at every intersection that doesn't have a stop light (being careful about anyone behind me of course), and only drive through solid green lights, not flashing.

Thoughts?

[Edited on 7-8-2010 by tfinbaja]

hasn't worked for many folks. but good luck on that.

BajaOkie - 7-8-2010 at 09:39 AM

I just went thru Cd. Constitucion yesterday morning (7/7/2010) at about five minutes after nine. I was coming from the south and had just stopped at the first light as you enter town. I drive a 2007 Dodge with a Lance camper on the back. Since there was no one in front of me, I take a picture of the gauntlet.

Suffice to say, by the time I got to the second light a Police vehicle (Truck #008) pulls to my driver side and tells me in English to pull over and stop. I could not make the turn he did so I proceeded up the center road to the next light and the police pull along my other side (on the outer road) and say to pull over at the next street. This I did and pulled in front of the large furniture/electronic store-they must have been closed because there were no cars parked in the yellow marked street parking stalls.

An officer approaches my truck from the passenger side and says in english I have commited an infraction. I asked what it was and he said there was a person in the intersection when I pulled through the first light (it was green at the time). I told him I know that there was no one there because I had taken a picture. He did not believe me so I showed him the picture on the back of my digital camara. He smiled and said he needed my license.

So I go to grab my license which I had placed in a clear sheet protector on top of an old complaint form issued by the Sindicatura Municipal, I told the officer I was going to fill out the form and then give him my license. And to fill out the form I needed to know his name since he was not wearing a name tag. He then told me I had commited another infraction and I asked what and he said I had no license. I showed him the license through the clear sheet protector and he said I had committed two infractions. I knew I had done nothing wrong, there was no one in the intersection and I had my license so I asked him that we all go to the Police Station.

At this point he said the station is closed and would not be open until tomorrow. I said fine, I've got a camper on back and I'll just camp here. He demands my license one more time and I reply lets all go to the police station. The other officer approaches my vehicle and says someting to the first officer. When the first officer comes back to my truck I flip my clear sheet protector over and ask him how to pronouce the name of the "Sub-director de Policia" Sr. Villalejos (I had written this down awhile back) and I was going to call him about when the Police Station would open.

I start to dial my cell phone, the officer steps back to his partner and I hear in english "Have a good day sir!" They climb back into there truck, back through the intersection and then make a fast turn and speed off to the east. I pull away from the furniture/electronic store and I do not stop for breakfast or stop to get some lights for my trailer at the NAPA store.

This was my forth time through the town since February on my way back to Mulege from Punto Conejo. This extorsion has to stop for the good of the town, Cd. Constitucion. The pesos I would have spent were not much yesterday but when it comes time to buy appliances for my place in Mulege I will not use the vendors in Cd. Constitucion, I do not need the hassle. I will drive the additional 125 miles to La Paz.

Iflyfish - 7-8-2010 at 09:42 AM

Tfinbaja

Thanks for posting, time for a summary of what we have learned so far:

1. Come to a complete stop at ALL intersections, look both ways to make sure no pedestrians in cross walks.
2. Drive slowly according to Skeet the speed limit is 30 kph= 18.64 mph.
3. If stopped stay calm, be polite and clear.
4. Firmly ask for name and badge number, write these down, do not surrender drivers license
5. Let Police know you are calling Sr. Villalejos, Sub-director de Policia, at 613-100-1910. Keep this number with you and make that call.
6. Insist that you go to the station NOW and deal with the fine there.
7. Since the police office is reportedly closed on Sunday, travel thru Ciudad Constitution on M-Sat.
8. Remain calm, confident and clear. Follow thru.
9. If you experience extortion by the police of Ciudad Constitution report the details to:
American Citizen Services
US Consulate General Tijuana
ACSTijuana@state.gov

I hope that things will improve in Ciudad Constitution as we exert our collective influence on the situation.

Many people are not going to go to Baja Sur because of this problem and will not do so until it is resolved. This of course costs this city thousands of pesos per day in lost revenue.

Iflyfish

gnukid - 7-8-2010 at 09:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto


No gnukid ; It is me. I have just had my very smart and lovely Granddaughter visiting me. She helped me in a Number of ways. Made me realize that our Schools are in worse shape than I had originally thought them to be!!We had some very good Discussions which show me that all those Twitter,Text, Internuts, are Dummies for not looking around and having direct Contact with People. She will be a Leader some day!!
...
Same Ole Skeet!


Gracias a dios, eres 'ol Skeeter?

Well, um, I uh, er, I couldna' agree more with what you/she says. Just yesterday I tweeted my next to last last tweet, which was, "location based social web is a societal failure". It's think it's true that social web gives a false impression of social interaction stimulating the ego and the id in a mirror-like cold sterile environ, while in fact tweets are facebook status updates, are quite simply a tool to break down social interaction and aggregate social profiling to be used against you and the masses. Worse yet, location based updates provide an accurate predictive capacity to know and predict your every movement, causing providers to brag they can predict your future location with 97% accuracy in order to market specific ads and products to you or limit information. Social web is a tool of enslavement of the masses by their masters. I should know, I have worked in social web db modeling and data gathering for far too long, until I quit in compete disgust. It's a wasteland.

In respect to extortion in CC or any Baja city, it's true that it's quite simple to address these or any issues head on-face to face, by anyone, simply by speaking up for yourself, calmly, patiently and preferably with a bit of self effacing humor. And there are those, likely like you, who would never encounter a problem, nor notice if they did.

But there are those who are completely programmed to be in fear, they believe the false State Dept warnings, the false war on terror which has caught few if any terrorists yet grows exponentially to target everyone of us, they go into shock when they encounter a Mexican cop, who plays upon their fear, "es muy grande infraccion, gringo". Those tourists need to wake up, but how do they become enlightened and empowered to stand up for themselves, in order to pay attention, introduce themselves, gather details, and what does your daughter say about waking up these sleeping sheep to the failures of schools, society and seek self-preservation for humanity?

Iflyfish - 7-8-2010 at 09:58 AM

BajaOkie

Thank you very much for posting this very clear example of how to deal with the extortion by police in Ciudad Constitution. You have provided us with an excellent model of how to deal with this. We are grateful to you.

I have a favor to ask of you or any other Nomad who knows please post a link to the:
Sindicatura Municipal Complaint form.

We should all carry a copy of this form as well as a copy of our driver's licence in our vehicle at all times.

Please send a copy of this excellent report to:

American Citizen Services
US Consulate General Tijuana
ACSTijuana@state.gov

The first round is on me Amigo de Nomads.

This is another excellent example of the power of Social Networking using the Internet and BajaNomads to support not only the people of Mexico but our fellow Baja travelers. Salud to all those who are taking action NOW!

Iflyfish

Iflyfish - 7-8-2010 at 10:03 AM

I am off for a few days of fishing on the Columbia River. I will likely be out of contact for a few days. I hope other Nomads will keep this thread alive. We are making progress and learning and I notice more and more Newbies posting and that is good for all of us. I hope we can stay focused on the issues here and not let this valuable thread deteriorate into ad hominum attacks and irrelevancies.

Stop the Extortion by Police in Ciudad Constitution!

Iflyfish

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 10:04 AM

Flyfish:
I approve your last Post,
I agree with Baja Okie and the way he responded..

It just seems to me that you and others think that just beacuse you are Americano Tourists that you can change the way a Town in in Baja will change in hopes of tetting your Dollars.
What I have been trying to say to all of you, you cannot change Mesico to what you think is your right hjust because of your thinking.

A good example is "Why in the Hell can't the Teachers in our Schools use Paddles on the Disrepectful, dumb Kids???

Why can we in the States not stop the Criminal Acts of DOPE??

Why cannot we stop the Traffic Traps at Blithe Az and Esterline TX??

We need to take care of things up here instead of trying to change a Cultural we are visiting as Guest.!!!


My Friends in Constitution have suggested that they are not at all interested in a bunch of American Turist or weather or not they spen any money as they go through their Town.

They ask me to ask you people? Do they know anything about the Price of Corn???

longlegsinlapaz - 7-8-2010 at 10:12 AM

Skeet, with all due respect....& I do mean that sincerely despite the fact I never got to meet you face-to-face....I do understand & respect your opinion, or at minimum your right to have your own opinion on the majority of your posts.

What's presently happening in Constitucion is not the piddly little mordita that you knew & accepted. This is blatant extortion on a large & organized scale, by people with weapons; people most of our generation were taught to respect & go to as a "safe harbor". If you'll go back & read the recent experiences posted here, most if not all have stated they are going through Constitucion at the pace of a crawl, stopping at every intersection whether it's got a light or marked with a stop sign.

The reasons being given for the stops are totally bogus & intended to instill fear & extort money from the people stopped. I believe the current actions of the police in Constitucion are instilling more anger than fear. It has gone way beyond the days of $10-20 pesos for a soda! Besides, it's one thing to offer someone a propina because they helped you in some way, because they look hot & thirsty, or simply out of the goodness of your heart. It is a totally different thing to be pulled over with lights and/or siren by the very people we were taught to look up to & trust, to put our safety & well-being in their hands....when those people abuse their power & demand large amounts of money for bogus reasons.

It'd be one thing if they were actually writing tickets for real violations, but they aren't writing tickets. They are not trying to uphold the law, they are blatantly violating the law, they are depriving Constitucion of revenue in the city coffers, they are depriving Hacienda of taxes they'd have had to otherwise paid on the extra income their pocketing. They are hurting their own people in their own community by diverting monies to their own pocket, rather than if they were writing tickets & the monies followed whatever the prescribed flow is to benefit all the people of Constitucion.

I respect & applaud your love Baja & its people, I love Baja as well & I respect the fact that it's their country to run according to their own laws & cultural ways. But please try to understand that the police in Constitucion are currently violating their own laws & they're no longer even attempting to be subtle about it.

IMHO, you'd be showing more respect & love for the people of Constitucion if you were to try to explain to the "powers-that-be" you've befriended over the years just how much of a negative impact the actions of a few police officers is having on the entire community & points south.

By the way, my best amigas Mother runs that taco stand & she read this thread....she's flabbergasted at what the police are doing in her former hometown AND she'd really appreciate it if you'd stick to advertising the tacos rather than big boobs at her Mother's stand!:yes::yes:

Edit: rhinintransit Dang!! I was composing & your 9:29 AM post was posted while I was apparently still wordsmithing!

Skeet, Skeet, please try to stay on topic! ;)

[Edited on 7-8-2010 by longlegsinlapaz]

Bajatripper - 7-8-2010 at 10:38 AM

Quote:
I would like very much to see some of you Cry-Baby Weak-minded,Whimps, start figuting out Solutions to the Problems, instead of spending your time :Blaming" everyone else for your own Shortcomings!!

Same Ole Skeet!


Again, Skeet, I don't concur with your assessment here. Given the context of this thread, I would say that iffyfish IS figuring out a solution to the problem, and most definitely NOT blaming others for any personal shortcomings he may have.
You, on the other hand, seem to have clouded your judgement because of the good treatment you have received in some quarters of CC, giving blanket immunity to this highly irregular form of extortion going on in your beloved city. An attitude that is contradicted by many of your past posts as a life-long "law-and-order" kind of guy.
Just for information, I, too, normally view the ocasional mordida as paying the price of admission, as a "tax" to supplement the entirely inadequate income of the police force in Mexico. But what is happening in CC is way beyond that. If they continue to get away with what is going on now, how long before they begin practicing that other national sport in Mexico and kidnap a traveler or two for bigger payoffs?

Apparently

Dave - 7-8-2010 at 10:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
My Friends in Constitution have suggested that they are not at all interested in a bunch of American Turist or weather or not they spen any money as they go through their Town.


The police force didn't get the message.

Bajatripper - 7-8-2010 at 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Off Subject:

Challenge:
I challenge you to attend a 6th or 7th Grade Class in one of the Schools in Constitution then attend the same Grade Class ain any large City in the States, then come back and report the Truth.

It is unbeleivable what goes on in an Ameican Public School , There are a lot of Dummies setting in class with their Text Machines not learning a Thing. Just think the few that do pay attention and learn will controll those Dummies doing the Twitter.

Skeet


No, Skeet, this simply isn't true. I presently have two Mexican step-kids attending schools here in La Paz, so I know what schooling is like down here (or was your challenge only for schools in CC?).
Furthermore, I also have a daughter who, for the last four years, has alternated on a yearly basis between schooling in La Paz and schooling in the State of Washington. While I can't speak for what happens in schools in big cities in the U.S., my daughter's experience in Oak Harbor, WA doesn't support your contention (but they certainly love their uniforms in Mexico, perhaps that is what makes them seem more controlled to you down here?). She just finished the seventh grade in the U.S.

Longlegsinlapaz

DianaT - 7-8-2010 at 11:15 AM

As usual, your post was well thought out and very right on ---except you have a lot more respect than I do for someone who thinks that everyone who disagrees with his politics, religion, perceptions about Mexico, etc. is a stupid dirty drug using commie. :biggrin:

And it is good to remind people who at times make inappropriate remarks regarding locals that many times the locals are aware of the remarks. :yes::yes:

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 11:36 AM

Very well stated LonglegsinLapaz.

If some of you may recall several years ago I warned about what would happen when all the things were happening woth the Loreto Bay Villages.
Nobody complained enough to make any changes. Mexico will not change Habits just because a bunch of Tourists complain to the Bureau in La Paz.

Constitution is not a Tourist Town in Baja that depends on Tourists coming through for Dollars.

Their Dollars comes from Hard Work producing Corn!

Their actions may be offensive to the Tourists but it is part of the Culture .
Right or Wrong. Just like Americanos being DOPERS. It is something that is difficult to change.

It appears from the Posts that no one has had to pay any Dollars:: Is that true? Is there anyone who has been stopped and Paid? Or have they been able to do as Baja Okie related and were let off when they insisted on going to the Station??

I have used the samy thing twice in La Paz. There is a Sgt. on a Motorcycle who stopped me twice and tried to get twenty Dollars from me. I isited on the last time that he take me to the Scottish Rite Temple, He declined. Now when I see him, he waves and smiles.

How much Money has been spent in Constitution on Police Stops???"

k-rico - 7-8-2010 at 11:46 AM

The Scottish Rite Temple in La Paz? I'll have to remember that.

Freemasons in Mexico?? gnukid, is that true?

Moral dilemma

Dave - 7-8-2010 at 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

Their actions may be offensive to the Tourists but it is part of the Culture .
Right or Wrong.



Right or wrong. Gee, that's a tough question. What would someone with honesty and integrity say?

Or would that be 'none of their business'?

DENNIS - 7-8-2010 at 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
The Scottish Rite Temple in La Paz? I'll have to remember that.

Freemasons in Mexico?? gnukid, is that true?



OK....I'm not Gnu, but here ya go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry_in_Mexico

KASHEYDOG - 7-8-2010 at 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
For those who enjoy good food, at the second light right down down there is a good Taco Stand, alled Tonys that has some very good Fish Tacos.

Also a trip over to the Public Market is interesting. Lots of small shops around the Square with lots of different things..

As you get through the Main street, on the right is a Bancomer and across the street is another Great Taco Stand operated by two women and one of the girls working there has a Great Set of Boobs!!



Hey Skeet!!!!! Me and Dennis are still waiting for those pictures of that great set of "tacos" or as Dennis said "humongous hooters" :bounce::spingrin::bounce:

tfinbaja - 7-8-2010 at 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

I have used the samy thing twice in La Paz. There is a Sgt. on a Motorcycle who stopped me twice and tried to get twenty Dollars from me. I isited on the last time that he take me to the Scottish Rite Temple, He declined. Now when I see him, he waves and smiles.


Skeet,

I know what Scottish Right Freemasonry is, but what you said in the context of the traffic stop went right over my head. At the risk of appearing as a dummy, can you please explain it so I can understand? :?:

Thank you.

DENNIS - 7-8-2010 at 12:09 PM

Yeah, Skeeter. I'm gonna hold a vigil in front of this monitor until you kick down some photos of Elsie The Cow making tacos. :lol:

wessongroup - 7-8-2010 at 12:10 PM

:lol::lol:

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 12:12 PM

Bajamatic;

Yes I have been some time in my Life.

Most of us have been Idots at times, just a few will admit it.

Now if you are DOPER, COMMIE,SOCIALIST, that is a different Story.

Back to the Subject next Post Please.

kaybaj - 7-8-2010 at 12:16 PM

wait what was the Subject again? boobs or Bribes?

What time is it?

Dave - 7-8-2010 at 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

Most of us have been Idots at times

DENNIS - 7-8-2010 at 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaybaj
wait what was the Subject again? boobs or Bribes?



The mindless chatter gets tiresome. ;)

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 12:28 PM

tinfin:

The first time I was stopped by the Sgt. I insisted that we go to the Judge. He declined. as he started back to his Bike I followed and gave him a $5 Bill and suggested he go to Lunch He declined. . The next time I was stopped by him I was near the Plaza and was looking at the Scottish Rite Temple. I knew the current Head, so I mentioned to the Sgt. that I would like to go by and ask him to go along to see the Judge.

Masonry is very active in Baja Sur. Many of the State and Local Leaders are members of the Temple. I think the Sgt. may have been a little scared of some one at the Temple. Of the 38 years visiting and living and working{owned Rancho Sonrisa S>A de CV} in Baj I have only paid Mordida 2 times, both in TJ when I was in fact Speeding.

I think that if the Truth comes out we shall fine that on 95 % of the Stops in Constitution the Tourist were going more than the Post Speed Limit.

I will also agree that the signs posted at 30kph are not observed by most drivers and Yes they are used to stop Tourists going through .


I think that many Americanos think that they can do what they feel Like with out any repercussions.

It will be interesting to see just how much money has been spend on the /speeders.

Skeet/Loreto

surfer jim - 7-8-2010 at 12:39 PM

Maybe somebody needs to make their own thread on the merits of mordida instead of destroying this this one......

KASHEYDOG - 7-8-2010 at 12:52 PM

OK !! I think I have it. First of all Skeet, I'm on your side. However, for the rest you "mordida haters". Next time you go through Constitution bring $40 in ones with you. As you go through each traffic light or stop sign throw $5 out the window. Now this will take care of the cops because they'll park their cycles and be scrambling around for the money. Some of it may find it's way into the hands of the kids, so that takes care of the charity issue and just think of the fun you'll have doing it as entertainment. :lol:

NOW CAN WE HAVE THE PICTURES, Skeet ??? :bounce::spingrin::bounce:

Bajamatic - 7-8-2010 at 12:53 PM

So what you're saying is, "It's OK to be stupid, as long as you agree with me."

Blind Loyalism at its best.

DENNIS - 7-8-2010 at 12:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto

It will be interesting to see just how much money has been spend on the /speeders.

Skeet/Loreto


How about all those invisible people in the crosswalks? Are these things only Mechuliakanos, or whatever it is you call them, are able to see?

KASHEYDOG - 7-8-2010 at 12:57 PM

OK Bajamatic, we'll call you STUPID :P Lets all get back to a lighter conversation.

Which side?

Dave - 7-8-2010 at 01:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by KASHEYDOG
Skeet, I'm on your side.


The side that suggests we acquire 'honesty' and 'integrity' yet ignore injustice? That somehow, what's happening in Constitucion is the Gringo's fault?

Or the side that rails against America's loose morals yet make lewd comments about Mexican women and prides in visiting its brothels?

gnukid - 7-8-2010 at 01:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by k-rico
The Scottish Rite Temple in La Paz? I'll have to remember that.

Freemasons in Mexico?? gnukid, is that true?



OK....I'm not Gnu, but here ya go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry_in_Mexico


Egads, first Skeet condemns twitter and texting and now Dennis links to Freemasons influence in Mexico. Sea change evidence of expanding consciousness... claro que si compadres.

I know very little about Scottish Rite or FreeMasons, though I study allegory and symbols in literature and theology, apparently there are many levels of interpretation of their symbols and allegory, typically 7, and 33 levels of Freemasons.

Many of Mexico and the US presidents are 33rd level Masons, you wouldn't know or easily recognize the ultimate FreeMason interpretation of the actions, symbols, and allegory consciously without having read man of their works, but their symbols are everywhere in public, pop music, TV, architecture, everywhere.

From wiki "Many presidents of Mexico were Freemasons. The Freemasonry has influenced the political action like secular education, civil liberties and assistance to the poor peasantry."

Apparently few people can speak about Freemasons...

Albert Pike was a 33rd level Free Mason and was a founder and the Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite who authored Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry (for 1st to 32nd degree FreeMasons). Pike was a commander in the Mexican American war and served in the battle of Buena Vista.

FreeMasons are a (secret) society that pulls the strings of all politics and society that influence all aspects of our North American lives, yet few know or understand the significance of interpretation or allegory and symbology.

Albert Pike could read in 16 languages, he was also the head of the Klu Klux Klan, and a Luciferian occultist. His right hand man was Phileas Walder, a founder and leader of the 'Mafia'. Walder worked closely with Giusseppe Mazzini. In a letter, dated August 15, 1871, Pike wrote to Mazzini,
"We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, the origin of savagery, and of the most bloody turmoil.

Albert Pike predicted the 3 world wars, the 3rd being a war between Zionists and Islam, which would provide for their mutual destruction and further the disillusionment with Christianity and atheism and all religion to reveal a one world global government, the doctrine of Lucifer brought into public view.

Helpful background documentation would include your own research and here a few links to long documentaries that are required viewing for all.

Articles on Freemason and Masonic influence on Early Mexico and North America


Secret Mysteries of America's Beginnings 2 - Riddles in Stone: Documentary Film

Money Masters: Documentary Film

Behold a Pale Horse: Documentary Film by William Cooper

The New Atlantis: Documentary Film




[Edited on 7-9-2010 by gnukid]

[Edited on 7-9-2010 by gnukid]

BajaOkie - 7-8-2010 at 01:22 PM

Skeet/Loreto

I agree with with Longlegsinlapaz and her assessment. I am from farming and cattle country in Oklahoma. For that reason I have more in common with farming based communities in Baja than I do with maritime based communities. I am disappointed to hear that this farming based community does not want dollars (pesos). Are you sure about that? Why are some of the signs in town at businesses in English?

I personally love Cd. Constitucion and have had many great times there including attending Christmas Mass a few years ago. The community seemed to accept my wife and I without reservation. However, this community, like many, have to stand either for the rule of law or not. Separate laws for different people (and I hate to say this) based upon how they look never work.

Now if any one wished to talk about corn in Cd. Constitucion I would have found it fasinating as to the techniques, production and labor interaction. I would love to go to the farming areas and production facilities. I do not want to give up on this town but I will avoid this hassle until it goes away or is no longer condoned.

One thing that bothered me after the officers let me go was as I drove north on Mex 1 I passed a few (not alot) of tourists. There was this one blonde lady driving an RV just laughing and it appearing to be having a good time with her friends/family?. I passed them in the construction zone outside of Cd. Insurgentes. I feel bad if she drew the short straw in Cd. Constitucion and got stopped by the same officers I had dealt with.

longlegsinlapaz - 7-8-2010 at 01:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Very well stated LonglegsinLapaz.

Thank you.
Quote:
Mexico will not change Habits just because a bunch of Tourists complain to the Bureau in La Paz.

Constitution is not a Tourist Town in Baja that depends on Tourists coming through for Dollars.

Their actions may be offensive to the Tourists but it is part of the Culture .

Au Contraire!!! Not all are "tourists", many are permanent & full-time legal residents of Baja. Not all complaints are going to La Paz agencies, nor are all complaints even going to Mexican agencies. What's happening in Constitucion is severely impeding both tourist & resident dollars & pesos from making their way south of Constitucion. This is not only impacting Constitucion.

IMO, yes it is offensive, but it's also aiding & abetting Mexican police officers in violating several Mexican Federal & probably many state & city laws. Skeet, this is not simply mordita; which I believe Fox made illegal; this is EXTORTION, pure & simple!

Quote:
It appears from the Posts that no one has had to pay any Dollars:: Is that true? Is there anyone who has been stopped and Paid? Or have they been able to do as Baja Okie related and were let off when they insisted on going to the Station??

No that is not correct....confusingly, there are currently 3-4 similar threads active right now & not all have the same posters....many posters have paid. Maybe if you find & read all the threads you might gain a better understanding for the anger you see expressed in this thread.

Quote:
How much Money has been spent in Constitution on Police Stops???"

Unknown, but it's a very safe bet that not all who drive the Hwy. 1 gauntlet are fellow Baja Nomad followers & not all who lurk here post here....as you might have noted, this topic has brought some lurkers out of the shadows.

Skeet, I'm not a newbie, nor a tourist, I've lived here as a permanent full-time resident for 11 years. I haven't even been out of Baja for 5+ years! While there are some things I sincerely do feel could be done differently/"smarter"/better, I sincerely try not to convey the irritating "In the US...." "My way is better...." attitude that can be prevalent amongst gringos down here. I sincerely do try to go with the flow of the local culture....but first & foremost, I do my damnedest to stay with local & federal law.

What the police in Constitucion are do is breaking their own countries laws & they are targeting gringos. In all honesty, I have concerns about where the police will turn next to continue the extra income lifestyle if these efforts are successful in stopping extortion from gringos. Will they attempt to prey on their own people through extortion?

Come on Skeet, you're wearing me out!!;) Are you willing to admit there is a difference between mordita & extortion?

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 01:42 PM

Yes there is a difference. But what I want to see is called PROoF, not just IFIFlyfish saying this is happening. I want those who have been stopped and have NOT been speeding to come forward and give the amounts they have paid.
In other words I do not beleive that they were not Speeding. I think at this Point they got caught and are trying to make the Police look bad.''There is still "No Proof!!!!


Baja Okie[[What town in Okie??

As you know Constitution was started after Fozzil Water was dicovered and Tapped. I could very easily live there. The People are Great, The Medical Care is Excellent, you can purchase nearly all your needs without going to La Paz. The kids are very poor out on the Western Farm Land where it gets Cold in the Summer when Fogs move in around 4 PM.

From what I have been able to find out from my friends there was an increase in Tickest after the Tourist would come through speeding and not observing the Signs. And yes there was a couple of the Policemen that started some heavy type fines, but not much was collected as most of the Speeders refused to pay and ask to see the Judge. So______________

Let us hear from those on When and How Much and were they really observing the accruate Speed?

Let us talk about FACTS

Skeet

longlegsinlapaz - 7-8-2010 at 01:50 PM

Skeet, here two threads which are still showing on page 2 of Today's Posts....sorry, I'm not going back to do a search for any others that may have slipped off the radar:no:....

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=46302

http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=44711

DENNIS - 7-8-2010 at 01:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BajaOkie

However, this community, like many, have to stand either for the rule of law or not.


The people of most Mexican communities are seperated from their police force and, traditionally, they only interact in a punitive manner.
The people don't trust the police nor do they confidently ask for assistance. The police are there to enrich themselves from the community and interaction is unheard of.
It won't matter what the community wants. They won't get it without paying a price.
The element of loss for the community in this issue can only be realized by a negative impact on business. Enact that and the nonsense will cease.

gnukid - 7-8-2010 at 01:52 PM

Any reader can see the incredible bs and distracting misinformation in these messages from Skeet today, which are pointedly directed at stopping this community from organizing against corruption. Why? Who would want that, who would make the argument? Ask yourself. The answer is there.

It's pure propaganda and a side track. Quite a common theme here nowadays. Something quite odd with this writer posting under the name Skeet. Not a Baja lover, not an ethical adventurer, not true Christian moral, not realistic about practically anything, yet the posts are more well written and formed than ever before, more hyperbole. It's an obvious attack on this campaign for truth and justice by an enemy of justice. Ignore Skeet.

gnukid - 7-8-2010 at 01:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DENNIS
Quote:
Originally posted by BajaOkie

However, this community, like many, have to stand either for the rule of law or not.


The people of most Mexican communities are seperated from their police force and, traditionally, they only interact in a punitive manner.
The people don't trust the police nor do they confidently ask for assistance. The police are there to enrich themselves from the community and interaction is unheard of.
It won't matter what the community wants. They won't get it without paying a price.
The element of loss for the community in this issue can only be realized by a negative impact on business. Enact that and the nonsense will cease.


Cheers, thank you Champ! here here! Heading out to my community now!

Vive la communidad de Baja!

DENNIS - 7-8-2010 at 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by gnukid
Any reader can see the incredible bs and distracting misinformation in these messages from Skeet today,


You're supposed to know how to digest that by now. He's being spoon-fed by some who think he's going to make sense of it all. That would take all the fun out of it....doncha think?

irenemm - 7-8-2010 at 01:56 PM

Sr. Skeeter
I am sorry you think that any town in Mexico would not want an added income. In our town we farm berries and we live off the Local people. But not one business in this town would fore go the Tourist Dollar or Tourist pesos. I have lived here for almost 30 years and we always welcome the tourist money as do all the business in the town or valley.
I would be very disappointed with any business here that would not be interested in the giving service and wanting to make money.
What I feel you are saying is that the Mexico people of Constitucion have all they need and do not want to grow there business. Perhaps you should ask them if they are happy just making 100. pesos a day or would they like to make maybe 200. with added business. I am sure most if not all would go for the 200.
I have been stopped only once in almost 30 years. I did break the law. My headlight was out and I knew it. I had a new one but it was wrong. I told the officer that i would follow him the the Police station he said I could just pay him. I say no sir I will follow you and pay my fine that I owe.
I do agree if you did nothing wrong don't pay call the bluff. If you did do something wrong pay the city and not the cop. When he steals from the city everyone is cheated.
Ask the business people who pay taxes and keep paying more and more and do not see improvement. When the cops steals from the people of his city he needs to go to jail

longlegsinlapaz - 7-8-2010 at 02:01 PM

And for what it's worth....IMO, the fact that the police are not going ahead & writing tickets speaks pretty loudly for the argument that these are not valid infractions! Do you expect me to believe the police in Constitucion are so meek they'd let someone simply refuse to stick around if a ticket were being written?:no: The only logical reason they allow anyone to refuse to put $$ in their hot little hand right there on the street, sans ticket, & let them drive off is because there was NO REAL infraction & the stop was a trumped up extortion stop!

Please go read the original posts in the other two threads I found for you.

Sunman - 7-8-2010 at 02:15 PM

Skeet,
Just to make it easy for you here is some proof. These are three posts cut and pasted from the other thread (screen names omitted)

#1
I have been stopped almost every time I have gone thru Constitution over the last 4-5 years- about 4 times a year. Usually the cop wants a bribe, 200 - 800 pesos. Twice I have gone to the police station to pay my fine- both times the Commander backed-up his cop and demanded that I pay him or have my car and gear impounded- I paid. Once, I was stopped by two local cops who claimed my trailer lights weren't working: when I walked to the rear of my trailer to check the second cop ripped my wiring from the plug and said in perfect English, " Here's your problem; the wires are broken, you should have checked them before you left home". It cost me $20. to get out of there. I hate to pay the bribes but from what I've seen you will get no relief from the local police management. It does not matter if you are on the Federal Highway or the town streets; the local cops will stop people on any of the roads thru town. I will spend no money in Constitution ever, if I can help it. The newer Pemex North ( West side of road) of town is well known by the locals to short-liter you, and they will try to short-change you if you let them.

#2
Okay, I will add myself to the victim list. On June 21st, we were pulling into CC, heading south to our home in LB. I have been reading the posts recently and decided to play it extra cautious. I started down the center lane, literally going 10 mph. I stopped at every light, crosswalk and stop sign. I noticed one police officer had someone pulled over on the frontage road. I proceeded south very slowly. About three lights from the end of town, I noticed a police truck turning left in front of me while I was sitting at a red light. He turned left, made a U-Turn and shadowed me on the frontage road the entire rest of the way. Continuing @ 10mph, he finally pulled behind me at the last light and lit me up. When I was chatting with him, he said I failed to stop for pedestrians seven blocks back. Impossible since he only pulled in front of me near the end of town. He told me he was going to keep my license and I could come get it at 8:00 the next morning at the police station or........ $500 pesos right now. I pondered letting him keep my license and just getting a new one when I returned to the states, but figured that might not be that bright. After negotiating for several minutes, we agreed on $400 pesos and we were on our way. He even extended his hand out to shake my hand. He was polite even after I told him that everybody knows what is going on here and that he is only hurting his own community by harassing tourists. I asked him who would ever want to come stay in this town with all of the police extortion and he simply laughed and said not my problem.

I will be driving back north in a few weeks to continue the saga. It is a shame, because I normally stay there for lunch and a few beers. Not anymore!!!!

#3
I know exactly what a throw away license is, but could it be possible that I simply didn't care (at brief moment in time) if the officer kept my real CDL allowing me to be on my way?

My two 5 year olds in the back seat started crying when they saw the two officers approaching my window, one holding an assault rifle. I am sure that can be just a tad intimidating to a child. So I think my $500 to $400 peso deal was good enough to get me and my family out of there under MY circumstances. I am sorry that I could not help the cause in the manner you obviously would have liked, but then again, my family is a much higher priority to me than worrying about $40+/-.

Just thought I would share a recent similar shakedown event so that everyone knows, nothing has changed in CC.

BajaOkie - 7-8-2010 at 02:30 PM

Skeet/Loreto

My home town is Skiatook, Oklahoma. As for Cd. Constitucion I was not speeding and the officer made no attempt to write a ticket. This was just extortion, pure and simple. Stop that gringo, make up a charge, get his license and extort some pesos for its return.

Skeet/Loreto - 7-8-2010 at 02:32 PM

Thank all of you for your reports; Those Posts are well taken.

What I find Offensive is the Attitude of some of the Posters who think :Just because I have Tourist Dollars"" I am to be treated differently.

What is being discussed here has been happening for many years in Mexico. If you think you can stop it you are misled.
There has been many changes in the past couple of years due to many things occurring that make people do Bad things. I think some of the problem in Constitution is a result of the current happenings even up here in the States as well as the Muders and Violance in the Border Cities.

I know that everytime I had anything to do with Constitution and its People I was treated very Well.
I have been in Touch with my friends in Constitution and made them aware of everyones Concerns/ The Town as a Whole is biased aganist Tourists.

I doubt very seriously if anything will come of your efforts.

I think that the Good I have received out weights any of the Bad that is being talked about.

Advice: Start Flying.
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