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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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My opinion: (I'm not an expert about the future of RE or Loreto)
I went to Loreto Bay to meet some of the developers with some potential investors a few years ago. The potential investors complained about exactly
the things noted here; no club points or ownership or control of anything. Basically you are buying stripped down rights to use the vacation home in a
development without a say or benefits in the development.
Its like a lot of vacation resort deals but its missing the meat.
The visitors I went to Loreto with were savvy RE and golf club investors with hotels and investments worldwide and said this was a keep it all
development giving up very little for the money and little that could be highly valued later. High risk with low potential return. Very smart for
developers = very bad for investors. It seemed like an impressive deal for the developers.
As we rode home after the meetings that day, it was suggested that under the circumstances the company could take all the money and walk away prior to
early or even second or third stage completion if they chose with little recourse for investors therefore we had to walk away.
Most Real Estate buyers are not so savvy and are unaware of the history of such developments or of Loreto's drawbacks as a fast growth, highly
impacted vacation destination, specifically the obvious lack of resources to support such a development for the long term.
Loreto Bay is doomed to be highly impacted, costly and has low likely-hood of being a potentially very good real estate investment when compared to
alternatives which have much greater potential for appreciation than Loreto Bay's overpriced, low value, hollow plan.
Worse, even if it is sold out, an near empty town almost year round makes it a home robbery target and when crowded for the 2-3 week x-mas rush when
people finally visit it's possible there will be a shortage of resources, food, restaurants, water, sewage capacity, taxis, shuttles, rental cars,
tours. etc... as you would expect. So, when you arrive for your two weeks of bliss you might very well miss the enjoyable vacation you imagined.
There is a good chance this is really a big idea that will burst like a hot air balloon soon. It's too far off the mark for high value / high benefit
investment.
Money would be better spent in areas where money provides more value and higher chance for appreciation, one which has better potential at this time
due to its' infrastructure and proximity to transportation.
Much slower growth for Loreto with adequate infrastructure resources up front would improve its' chances.
That said, I will not turn away support for those who make the choice to buy there and I will assist all my friends and associates who do as much as
possible because the buyers are going to need lots and lots of help outside of the "Company" e.g. services like private security, lawyers,
immigraccion agents, cleaning, maintenance, transportation, entertainment not to mention basic resources like food, water and energy.
Again, these comments are only my silly unqualified opinion and do not reflect any specific absolute knowledge about the potential future for Loreto.
So, Mike and Cypress, whatever your intentions are go ahead and laugh off the criticism and continue the game. No one expects YOU to change your tune.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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I just got an idea I know Mike and Cypress, you will all find it brilliant. If LB can market heavily or exclusively to inner city Parisian clients,
then many visiting french tourists will gather in LB and their french friends will join them. It could become a mini-paris on the sea of cortez,
similarly impacted, wall to wall living with no room for cars, overpriced coffee and baguettes. Tres bien! Perhaps French could become the official
language. How perfect. LB has better weather than Paris-so it all makes sense, Mike? LB city will be French and the rest of Baja free of French
tourists. Mais Oui. Win Win. C'est incroyable! Formidable! Genius!
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cajhawk
Junior Nomad
Posts: 64
Registered: 11-16-2004
Location: Ramona, CA
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LB Outlook
Most Real Estate buyers are not so savvy and are unaware of the history of such developments or of Loreto's drawbacks as a fast growth, highly
impacted vacation destination, specifically the obvious lack of resources to support such a development for the long term.
The history of most of these projects is that one developer starts it and another one eventually finishes it. As far as your real estate savvy
investors, I would say that you were correct in saying that there was too much risk and not enough return for them. However I would disagree that LB
management would "take the money and run". The majority of their profit is in finishing the development and with the huge capital expenditures and
payroll I don't see this as being profitable for them either until later. I would say the biggest problems from an investment standpoint are 1) LBs
unwillingness to share the pie with (much needed) capital partners and use their expertise; 2) poor management regarding construction; 3) high
overhead with too much wasted money. Once again, time will tell.
An earlier poster made the comment that they were destroying a virgin piece of land? (paraphrased). The Mexican Government chose to develop this land
years ago and put street, water, and sewer to this area. LB is building homes (at least in the first 3 phases) on completely finished lots and an
existing golf course. Complain about it all that you want, but building on lots that are already completed???
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wilderone
omg - has the past three years of discussions been fruitless? |
Pretty much sums it up.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by cajhawk
An earlier poster made the comment that they were destroying a virgin piece of land? (paraphrased). The Mexican Government chose to develop this land
years ago and put street, water, and sewer to this area. LB is building homes (at least in the first 3 phases) on completely finished lots and an
existing golf course. Complain about it all that you want, but building on lots that are already completed??? |
There's more to it than that. Fonatur did not provide LB with "completely finished lots." I've seen the process from the start. First, vegetation was
removed. Then scraped. Water, sewer, and electric conduits installed amidst raised pads from streams of dump trucks.
There is a locked, gated road between Loreto and Nopolo that leads to a large excavation area that was the source of the fill for the pads the first
phases of LB are being built. Can't say if this are has, can or will be reclaimed. But this land was certainlly disturbed, to put it mildly.
Re: "The Mexican Government chose to develop this land years ago..."
No, they chose to attempt to get someone else to develop it. And failed for, what, decades? Until Loreto Bay chose to develop it. And, uh, well, if
THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT wants to do something, it must be the right thing, we hold them in such high esteem.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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I liked the "green" aspect of the L.B. project as described in their beautiful brochures. I sent for the brocures (and also received the DVD)after The
San Diego Union did a story on them, which was very positive.
Three years ago I drove there. I did not fly there on Alaska Airlines which put Loreto on their service route because of Loreto Bay. I did not
participate in the "sweat box", used car agency mentality sales pitch. I was shown around by a Loreto Bay Sales Representative. At that time the build
out estimate for the whole project was 15 years away. In the real world that means the project would have to survive; cost overrides, infrastructure
plans implemented successfully, governmental oversight protecting the buyers as well as the developers, completion dates met according to
contract....... And one could argue that this is "the real world". This is Mexico! Do I sound cynical? Even in a "perfect world" most buyers wouldn't
have the 15 years++++++++++ to wait for the promised amenities to benefit them. And then there is the water issue.
Well I took a look at the beautiful bay and felt immediately saddened by what the projected vision would look like and how it's beauty would be
impacted, in fact ruined, by the development.I saw the brown golf course and the pathetic strings and stakes in the sand and thought, OMG! For me,
there were so many red flags, I literally sped out of there. I should have gotten a speeding ticket.
Hey, I am not tha-a-a-t smart. I bought into a development in a riverbed in Mulege. Of course, I didn't know it was a riverbed until Hurricane John.
But I wouldn't trade places with anyone who has bought in Loreto Bay.
Regarding people who have bought, it is human nature to be in denial about such a huge financial and lifestyle committment, after they have made the
plunge. They have to stay positive, and I wish them the best. I really do.
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cajhawk
Junior Nomad
Posts: 64
Registered: 11-16-2004
Location: Ramona, CA
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Agreed
Regarding people who have bought, it is human nature to be in denial about such a huge financial and lifestyle committment, after they have made
the plunge. They have to stay positive, and I wish them the best. I really do.
I actually agree with your statement to some degree. The question becomes whether or not they are "in denial" or whether that is actually the future
in which they are investing money and time.
The flip side is that it is also human nature to dislike change. People don't want Loreto to change and therefore must be negative about Loreto Bay
and things that they do. I've worked for developers in the States before. It always amazed me how people would be 1) shown and walked through
complete plans for a 4 phase development; 2) sign numerous disclosures about those phases from both the Devloper and Department of Real Estate; 3)
move in phase 1; 4) complain about the fact that phase 2,3 and 4 were being built and how it was "ruining everything".
As I said before, I'm not an apologist for LB. They have their strengths and weaknesses as a development and as a company. I also believe IMHO that
even if they did everything that they attempted and it was a wonderful development that most on this board would not like it. Human nature as well.
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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As you know, I'm a tiny bit opposed to Loreto Bay; however, it's not my nature to dislike change. I live in, and am both participating in and
watching, rapid change of the community, and I'm all for it. The population at large is benefitting as is the environment.
If Butterfield et al. are really interested in building/bettering communities by increasing sustainablility, they would be working here, not building
a destination resort.
[Edited on 9-8-2007 by oldhippie]
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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ok by me, i'd rather have the frogs at Lb
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
I just got an idea I know Mike and Cypress, you will all find it brilliant. If LB can market heavily or exclusively to inner city Parisian clients,
then many visiting french tourists will gather in LB and their french friends will join them. It could become a mini-paris on the sea of cortez,
similarly impacted, wall to wall living with no room for cars, overpriced coffee and baguettes. Tres bien! Perhaps French could become the official
language. How perfect. LB has better weather than Paris-so it all makes sense, Mike? LB city will be French and the rest of Baja free of French
tourists. Mais Oui. Win Win. C'est incroyable! Formidable! Genius! |
than moving in close to my digs at La Sereindad!!
zee plane.......zee plane.....   
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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