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windgrrl
Super Nomad
Posts: 1329
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Discovered recently that vitamin B12, which is essential to well being, does not exist in an plant matter. I guess vegans are getting it from
supplements. Won't go into what this implies about the importance of some meat to pre-20th century man. |
Apparetly it's not so simple - neither plant nor animal produce the substance.:
"Synthesis and industrial production
Neither plants nor animals are independently capable of constructing vitamin B12.[31] Only bacteria and archaea[32] have the enzymes required for its
synthesis...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12
Ahhh...but it does come from yeast and there may be some plant uptake from soil contaminated with manure:
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm
"Industrial production of B12 is through fermentation of selected microorganisms."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12
[Edited on 10-12-2012 by windgrrl]
When the way comes to an end, then change. Having changed, you pass through.
~ I-Ching
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Getting ALL the Minimum Daily Requirements
In ONE package.
Today.
At the movies.
1/4 Lb. All-Beef Hotdog.
Anything that Good has to be all you need.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by windgrrl
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Discovered recently that vitamin B12, which is essential to well being, does not exist in an plant matter. I guess vegans are getting it from
supplements. Won't go into what this implies about the importance of some meat to pre-20th century man. |
Apparetly it's not so simple - neither plant nor animal produce the substance.:
"Synthesis and industrial production
Neither plants nor animals are independently capable of constructing vitamin B12.[31] Only bacteria and archaea[32] have the enzymes required for its
synthesis...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12
Ahhh...but it does come from yeast and there may be some plant uptake from soil contaminated with manure:
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm
"Industrial production of B12 is through fermentation of selected microorganisms."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12
[Edited on 10-12-2012 by windgrrl] |
Although animals do not produce B12 they contain B12 because they are the only organisms that have the bacteria you mention.
To quote the same wikipedia link you provide, but further down:
| Quote: |
Vitamin B12 is found in foods that come from animals, including fish and shellfish, meat (especially liver), poultry, eggs, milk, and milk
products.[1] Eggs are often mentioned as a good B12 source, but they also contain a factor that blocks absorption.[citation needed] However, the
binding capacity of heat treated egg yolks and egg whites is markedly diminished after heat treatment.[61] Certain insects such as termites contain
B12 produced by their gut bacteria, in a way analogous to ruminant animals.[62] An NIH Fact Sheet lists a variety of food sources of vitamin B12.[1]
Food Micrograms (mcg) per serving Percent DV*
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Clams, cooked, 3 ounces 84.1 1,402
Liver, beef, cooked, 3 ounces 70.7 1,178
Breakfast cereals, fortified with 100% of the DV for vitamin B12, 1 serving 6.0 100
Trout, rainbow, wild, cooked, 3 ounces 5.4 90
Salmon, sockeye, cooked, 3 ounces 4.8 80
Trout, rainbow, farmed, cooked, 3 ounces 3.5 58
Tuna fish, light, canned in water, 3 ounces 2.5 42
Cheeseburger, double patty and bun, 1 sandwich 2.1 35
Haddock, cooked, 3 ounces 1.8 30
Breakfast cereals, fortified with 25% of the DV for vitamin B12, 1 serving 1.5 25
Beef, top sirloin, broiled, 3 ounces 1.4 23
Milk, low-fat, 1 cup 1.2 18
Yogurt, fruit, low-fat, 8 ounces 1.1 18
Cheese, Swiss, 1 ounce 0.9 15
Beef taco, 1 soft taco 0.9 15
Ham, cured, roasted, 3 ounces 0.6 10
Egg, whole, hard boiled, 1 large 0.6 10
Chicken, breast meat, roasted, 3 ounces 0.3 5
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Apprently B12 deficiency is common with people over 65. I wonder if this is due to diet changes that we make as we get older. Here are the vitamins
obtained by eating beef:
Vitamins %DV
Vitamin A 0%
Vitamin C 258%
Vitamin D ~
Vitamin E ~
Vitamin K ~
Thiamin 10%
Riboflavin 54%
Niacin 86%
Vitamin B6 6%
Folate 3%
Vitamin B12 258%
Pantothenic Acid 27%
Choline ~
Betaine ~
The point made is that man wouldn't have survived without eating meat. And vegans cannot now survive without eating meat byproducts. This idea that
we're omnivores who always had a choice to live on either meat or plant matter is simply not true.
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deportes
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STOP the madness. Do yourself a favor and listen to this Surgeon.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRe9z32NZHY&feature=endscreen&NR=1
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gnukid
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At issue with diet and B-12 deficiencies is the gastric INTRINSIC FACTOR which is a protein in your intestine which affects your bodies ability to
process and absorb B-12. Tests can determine the presence or lack of sufficient intrinsic factor.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/134307-intrinsic-factor-b1...
Vegans who do not closely manage their diet and keep a food diary are likely to be deficient and at risk of B-12 deficiency.
Wheat may be the cause of intestinal problems and imbalance leading to insufficient intrinsic factor and B-12 deficiency.
The Dark Side of Wheat is very informative
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/page/dark-side-wheat-new-perspec...
B-12 is Essential makes the connection between wheat products and inability to absorb B-12.
http://deletewheat.com/2011/11/09/b12-is-essential/
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bent-rim
Nomad
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Location: Marin County
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Mood: Living la vida mota
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We had a vegatarian with us on a dirt bike trip years ago. He kept getting laughed at by the propieters of any place we stopped to eat. What's
funnier is that he loved the flour tortillas and beans and didn't want to hear about all the lard that goes into making flour tortillas and beans.
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Unvegan Thoughts
AH, those Good Old Days.
While eating out this a.m. and munching on the Bacon, the spouse says "remember that CHEAP Canned Bacon we used to buy. Whatever happened to
it" ?
Tasty stuff, BUT (seemingly) containing about a years supply of SALT.
Not having given it any thought, I looked it up.
Celebrity Bacon. Product of Hungary. Website says (2008) "It's BACK" after 20 years off the U.S. market.
Linked to a different website: mredepot.com
The Current product per case of 12 cans (containing 9+ oz of meat) = $159.95.
Definitely NOT cheap any longer.
Guess we'll pass.
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monoloco
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I'm sure all the vegans will love to hear about the meal I had here in north eastern Nicaragua, yesterday I went to a restaurant in Puerto Cabezas
with friends and we had a tasty meal of guardiola asado. Guardiola is a large rodent that is very similar to a nutria, tastes just like chicken only
completely different, and you definitely need a good set of teeth to eat it.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Sounds luscious...I will be heading to Sydney, Australia for Thanksgiving for two weeks and my son has already warned me to "get ready" for "Vegan
Boot Camp", ha ha...I will keep you posted!! Already told me NO Diet coke in the frig...I will have to go out to the "dealer" on a daily basis to cop
my fix..hahaha!!
[Edited on 10-25-2012 by EnsenadaDr]
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