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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
I don't think Adam and Eve NEEDED anything psychotropic. Claims have been made that they were hearing talking snakes before they ever took a toke.
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Nobody NEEDS anything psychotropic
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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There's nothing like education - to wit the culture of hashish
Islam
Main articles: Halal and Islamic dietary laws
The Quran does not directly forbid cannabis; however, cannabis is deemed to be khamr (an intoxicant) by many religious scholars and therefore
generally believed to be haraam (sinful). Generally in MODERN orthodox Islam, conservative scholars deem cannabis an intoxicant and therefore,
according to the Hadith, it is classified as haraam. The Hadith is the book of sayings of the Prophet Mohammed, which states: "If much intoxicates,
then even a little is haram." There are dissenting voices, however, who say that the word used in the Koran itself is khamr - which means "fermented
grape" - and that this classification doesn't cover use of marijuana.
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The Decline of Islamic Hashish Culture
In no small way, European influences on Islamic culture in the 19th century saw considerable decline of the hashish ingesting faqirs, sufis and
mendicants that had always played some part in the Islamic community, albeit often as an antinomian force on the fringes of society.
Although, through vows of renunciation and chastity faqirs often owned no more than a few rags, a pipe for hashish and a begging bowl, they were
viewed by much of Islamic culture as holy men, “intoxicated” by their closeness to God, who were in a perpetual state of ‘not-of-this earth’, and thus
above the religious the laws of the common worshipper. “Such figures were regarded as majzubs, persons whose state of permanent and enraptured
‘closeness’ (qurbat) or attraction (jazb) to God rendered them the ideal intercessors and workers of wonders. As such, their every transgression was
permissible, since it was necessarily committed through divine dis- pensation” (Green, 2009). Cannabis played a clear and prominent role in producing
this state of divine intoxications. “Like his Hindu brother the Musalman fakir reveres bhang as the lengthener of life, the freer from the bonds of
self. Bhang brings union with the Divine Spirit” (Campbell, 1894).
Despite their abject poverty, many faqirs and sufis were made rich daily in generous food donations by members of the community, These donations of
food given to these faqirs were often delicately prepared and shared in large open gatherings that extolled a party like atmosphere. Such dervish
figures at the center of this were a remnant of the ecstatic worship of much more ancient times, and their music filled banquets, with dancing and
copious use of hashish, offered a sort of sacred car- nival like form of worship as an alternative to the more ascetic and dour practices of the
majority of Islamic culture.
When the English and other European countries sought to establish their dominance in the Mid-East and India, they were distressed to find these
unruly, half-naked and cannabis intoxicated rebels that were a common and even popular site in many Islamic communities. The British had “culturally
protestant notions of what constituted true religion as opposed to su- perstition and charlantry… the religious forms associated with the faqir
…raised the greatest contempt…”(Green, 2009).
….While many senior officials expressed a diplomatic ambivalence towards drug-use (sometimes framed in terms of ganja’s beneficial ef- fects on
productivity), in matters of religion the issue was more clear: intoxication played no part in ‘true religion’, whether Muslim or Christian. The drug
using faqir was by definition a ‘charlatan’… who clothed his degeneracy in the robes of religion. When combined with the rise of a new class of
bourgeois Muslim reformers, this critique was to have tremendous implications in Hyderabad and beyond for the disciplining effects of ‘religion’
reconceived as modern discourse. So successful has this notion of ‘true religion’ been in commercial academic culture that the qualifier (‘true’) is
typically implicit in the broader category (‘religion’). This is especially the case with regard to Islam, whose inclusive realm was reduced by the
course of colonial history. (Green, 2009)
Further, the envoys of the British and other European countries with Imperialistic ideals were shocked when such intoxicated half naked faqirs
publicly cheered and ridiculed them, acting with all the au- dacity and authority of beggar kings. As George Orwell, who for a time served as a
Burmese police officer, wrote, “Every white man’s life in the East was one long struggle not to be laughed at” (Orwell, 1971).1 It did not take long
for shock to grow into boiling anger, as the ‘disrespectful’ antics of these Holy clowns, or ‘wise-guys’ resulted in the laughter and amusement of the
common people the Europeans desired to dominate, and such perceived ‘disrespect’ could not long be tolerated. “The faqir, whose religious status and
time-honored freedoms lent him a considerable degree of free expression, was emerging as quite literally the voice of the Muslim ‘street’” (Green,
2009).
We can easily imagine the impression made by the drugged and dirty faqirs on the British. In the… 1893 colonial Report on the Cultivation and Use of
Ganja, we read how “by means of considerable doses of bhang frequently repeat- ed, [mendicants] induce a condition of frenzy which is supposed to
indicate supernatural ‘possession’”… Order needed to be maintained: whatever ‘superstitions’ the locals might attach to these figures, the streets
where sahibs walked had to be free from the haranguing of intoxicated beggars. (Green, 2009)
British and European anger over the antics and the blatant disrespect of these faqirs, was thus clearly combined with “legal and moral confoundment at
this new mode of intoxication, so far detached from the beer and whiskey-soda of the European clubs and barracks in India” (Green, 2009).
The ‘unruly’ political influence of these hashish ingesting faqirs on the common people was but one aspect of European concerns. In Islam and the Army
in Colonial India: Sepoy Religion in the Service of Empire, Nile Green discusses the influence of hashish ingesting faqirs and mendicants on Islamic
soldiers in service of the British Raj. “In imputing a substitute for the authority of the officer’s rank and the agency of the soldier’s effort, the
alternative authority of the miraculous holy man had the potential to undermine the organizational basis of the modern army” (Green, 2009). Many
Islamic soldiers were attending the hashish and music fuelled banquets held by the faqirs, and as a result being influenced by their faqirs disrespect
and jeering of the European military commanders who ruled over them. But the is- sues of concern here went far beyond the mere disruption of the
military hierarchy, and the faqirs were viewed by the British as rabble rousing resistors to the take-over by the British Raj in India. Further, such
‘political’ resistance of faqirs against Euro- peans was in no way confined to India.
…[T]he ‘dervish’ army of millenarian Mahdi of Sudan and the Sufi militia of Naqshhbandi initiates led by Imam Shamil that held at bay Russia’s march
into the Caucasus are merely the two most famous examples of organized Muslim ascetic resistance to European empire-building… nineteenth-century
travelers to Iran… frequently met with hostility from the faqirs they encountered in the streets, public spaces that the faqirs in a sense owned as
permanent residents of the urban outdoors… faqirs… clown’s freedom served as a role of increasing political importance as both Iranian and Indian
elites entered alliances with the European powers…. In James Fairweathers memoirs of fighting the rebels of 1857, he recalled a skirmish… with a group
of around 200 mujahadin, noting that ‘many of them were so drugged with bhang that they did not know whether they were striking with the flat or the
edge of their swords’. (Green, 2009)
Such rabble rousing and unruly aspects of Islamic culture, who would not be swayed by the European’s promises of power and riches as were the upper
class ruling Islamic elite, were not to go unchallenged, particularly by the British Raj.
….Unable to intervene in religious matters by explicit dint of colonial policy, the British in India… faced the perplexing dilemma in the insulting
antics of such figures… taunting them… as they passed in the streets… [I]t was here the new laws on insanity and vagrancy proved useful. For if the
faqir’s activities could not be prohibited so long as they were regarded as part of the autonomous sphere of ‘religion’ – which the British were
compelled to at least make a show of respect for… the problem of silencing the faqirs… disappeared if his deeds could instead be classified as those
of a madman. (Green, 2009)
Thus, in order to rid these streets of these unruly hashish intoxicated “madmen” new British legislation was drawn up in Colonial India “including
legislation on drug use and the incarceration of mendicants in India’s insane asylums” (Green, 2009).
The import of the faqirs reckless jeers, his nakedness and his open drug-use were for these reasons reinterpreted in official policy as signs of his
insanity and his ‘anti-social’ character. Given the widespread role of faqirs…, the expanded role of the asylum was therefore one of several ways in
which these unruly agitators were controlled. By these means, the social meaning of the faqir was reversed: his activities were no longer evidence of
jazb, of sweet intoxication in God’s presence, but proof instead of insanity.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This is drifting afar from México so this is it for me on this permutation...
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18145
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
I don't think Adam and Eve NEEDED anything psychotropic. Claims have been made that they were hearing talking snakes before they ever took a toke.
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Nobody NEEDS anything psychotropic |
It's not the governments business what I need or want.
Pot should be no different than alcohol: legal.
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bajamedic
Nomad
Posts: 392
Registered: 12-5-2008
Location: Northern California
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Mood: Just waitin for baja
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First things first; my wife and the mother of my children died with a brain tumor (Astrocytoma), she died in my arms, in our bedroom with me providing
her end of life care. My father died with a type of lung cancer (Mesothelioma) and I also provided his end of life care in his own home. My daughter
has successfully fought Hodgkin’s Lymphoma using Stem Cell/Bone Marrow treatment after three different unsuccessful chemo attempts, so I am fairly
familiar with cancer and its effect on the body and mind. I also understand the effect of many terminal and non-terminal diseases that have wreaked
havoc on so many friends and patients as I have worked in the health care field as both a CEO and in an ambulance as a Mobile Intensive Care Paramedic
for more years than I like to admit. I also live in the “Emerald Triangle” of California where many of my neighbors are large scale growers and yes
there are several large cartel grows in the forest around here. So based on that… in my humble opinion… 90% of marijuana use that I have personally
observed is for personal pleasure, not medicine. A 215 card is just an excuse for use of the drug… 10% is used for medicinal benefit. At our closest
university (Chico State), there is a doctor standing on the street handing out 215 recommendations for $35.00 to any student that has the money, he
works at lightning speed, handing out the paperwork and collecting his $35.00 and all you need is a hangnail and you qualify. Again, just my opinion,
just what we need, a whole bunch of unmotivated, relaxed people sitting around with the munchies and yes, many of those people are driving on our
roadways and the cause of accidents where I live. Let us remember that those wanting the medical effect can always use Marinol and avoid the “high”.
I do not intend to offend anyone that actually uses medical marijuana for legitimate medical reasons; it’s just the excessive recreational use that I
see every day around me. And as a side note… I also find the growers standing on our public roads holding baseball bats and giving me the “stink eye”
when I drive by a little offensive, again, just my opinion, not trying to be offensive. IF marijuana has a medical benefit, it should be legal and
controlled just like all of our medications. JH
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
I wonder.....................................................................................
grumble, mumble, harrumph |
A keeper
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BajaRat
Super Nomad
Posts: 1303
Registered: 3-2-2010
Location: SW Four Corners / Bahia Asuncion BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Ready for some salt water with my Tecate
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
I don't think Adam and Eve NEEDED anything psychotropic. Claims have been made that they were hearing talking snakes before they ever took a toke.
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Nobody NEEDS anything psychotropic |
It's not the governments business what I need or want.
Pot should be no different than alcohol: legal. |
How about the concept of freedom ?
What gives anybody the right to dictate what anybody does unless its in the course of harming others... IE operating a vehicle under the influence of
anything intoxicating to the point of endangering others. We don't have the God given right to tell each other what or how to believe and now someone
else decides what plants you can or can't grow in your garden ? Man has gone off the deep end in his zeal and religious fervor.
Get a Monsanto bumper sticker fake freedom lovers.
Your free to do what your told..........
Now back to your scheduled programming. 
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Dittos, Rat ... 
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
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Mood: Current
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Well stated BajRat, I like that you bring forth responsibly and real freedom, to bad most don't get it. I have understood how other know what is
better for me, a bit elitist.   
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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bledito
Nomad
Posts: 420
Registered: 7-6-2013
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as a herb showing good results for a number of illnesses It should be allowed to help those people who need it. I think most people faced with the
dilema of relief vs. laws will attempt to circumvent the law to gain the relief.
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Bomberro
Nomad
Posts: 157
Registered: 7-19-2006
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Good Program to Watch!
Had TV on and CNN has a special on Weed. Sanjay Gupta. I am not an expert and there are many on this blog, keeping an open mind I am watching this
Special to hopefully learn more. I see it going to be rebroadcast this coming Friday the 16th. Tune in.
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Mulegena
Super Nomad
Posts: 2412
Registered: 11-7-2006
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Sorry to bring it up, but...
no matter the discussion going on here-- what we think about it yea or ney--
a medical marijuana card issued in any state in the USA isn't legal in Mexico.
Bottom line.
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
...A woman I was having a conversation with pulled out her California medical marijuana card...
[Edited on 8-10-2013 by EnsenadaDr] |
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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BigLou
Newbie
Posts: 12
Registered: 9-7-2003
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David with all due respect you need an ativan. Cnn at 8 tonight.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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fyi in CA you need only a prescription fot MJ to be legal, the card is something that each county provides to demonstrate proof of a prescription but
is not required to be legal nor required to purhase or grow MJ.
In MX MJ is decriminalized but posession is still a "delito contra la salud" and you get a ticket at the station, after the third time you are
supposed to take class or something.
Of course, cops will tell gringos it is a serious offense to scare you and demand a large multa. And if MJ is found in conjuction with other
substances or in large quantity it is a serious offense wih punishment of jail time.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
I don't think Adam and Eve NEEDED anything psychotropic. Claims have been made that they were hearing talking snakes before they ever took a toke.
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FYI even Caffeine (coffee) and Chocolate are considered psychotropic.
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mulegemichael
Super Nomad
Posts: 2310
Registered: 12-24-2007
Location: sequim,wa. and mulege
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Mood: up on step
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uhhh people, HELLO!!!!...it's already legal for recreational use in washington state and colorado....anyone see sanje guptas documentary tonite on
"WEED"????...grow up...or go gulp down a 6 pack of budweiser for a glow
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3495
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
Also remember, that what flies in baja can be completely different than on the mainland.
So, to say if you smoke weed in all of Mexico and the police see you that they will toss you in the hoosegow is just not true.
You just have to know your backyard...
When you see the cops relaxing at la playa with an either-ender after work while hanging out with the surfers.... well, maybe you should get to be on
a first name basis with your local constable. |
When I pull up to a checkpoint and sniff the air and get into a discussion about this stuff, I have to think it's not that big a deal. Depends on
the boys on duty. In my opinion, any stringent MX laws apply to gringoes, not the rest of the crew. That's not to say there aren't anti-herb
folks enforcing the laws.
Didn't someone post that in MX, it's against the law for gringoes to partake, but not locals? Ha ha.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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OK, who wants to be the FIRST one to try it out? Please give at least 2 weeks advance notice so all travel arrangements, securing a nice folding
chair, camera (oh wait, they don't allow photos at Puestos de Controles) can be made. It's EASY to test the theory, just hammer on a Cheech &
Chong size doobie for fifteen minutes, then roll down your window as the soldado approaches your car.
Claim to the guys with the guns sticking in your face that your buddy did all the smoking, your eyes are red because of allergies and you would never
drive stoned.
Yeah, that otter do it...
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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A buddy of mine from La Paz, who uses MJ for medical reasons, was recently caught with a small amount of marijuana at the checkpoint north of El
Rosario. They just took his stash and let him go. I don't advocate driving around Mexico with marijuana, but I really don't think that anyone is going
to end up in serious trouble for a few grams of pot, since it clearly states in the criminal statute that 5 grams or less is not a criminal offense,
that's not to say that an unscrupulous cop wouldn't attempt to scare the crap out of someone in an attempt to extort them. This law applies to
everyone, not just "locals".
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Interesting
When I asked a soldado there regarding ANY amount of mota, he replied
"Detener con esposas"
"Arrest and handcuffs"
I ain't gonna try it out and see which is which...
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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bledito
Nomad
Posts: 420
Registered: 7-6-2013
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USA. fed gov will reduce sentences of non violent drug offenders Today. amounts not to be listed for smaller quantities not related to trafficking
sale to minor, or cartel ,or gang affiliation non voilent offenders currently serving may get sentences reduced. so i would think the average U,S
citizen growing a plant or two in thier garden is not going to get ( time) incarcerated.
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