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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
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Hola Aaron. You wrote I have been a longtime visitor of the Bajanomad site but have not joined until recently" and since your profile says "member
since 7-6-2003" it made me a little curious so I checked you out on the members list. Sure enough that is when you joined but more significantly it
says that your site is Wildcoast Costa Salvaje (costasalvaje.com). COSTASALVAjE is an international conservation group whose mission is to conserve
marine and coastal ecosystems and wildlife. Thats a very good organization. What is your position there?
Bob Durrell
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13047
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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As many of you know central baja has very strong fishing cooperativas that have won international awards for sustainable stewardship of this area for
lobster & abalone...something everyone is proud of here...bravo.
They spend alot of money on protecting thier resource with excellent "vigilancia"...patrols to keep poachers out of their concessions and respect
quotas and reproductive periods. Net fishing was supposed to be banned this year but we still are seeing halibut nets around.
We also live in a biosphere reserve which is a grand concept but does have it's drawbacks for the local people. For example, people who have been
fishing here for generations who used to take visitors fishing...would like to get into the sport fishing industry but find it next to impossible to
do so.
The permit process is so expensive & complicated that few of them are successful which is a shame as they are very knowledgeable fishermen &
great guides. But they simply cant get through the red tape and would need much more business to make even a small profit taking into account the high
cost of obtaining permits. Many have tried & failed which I feel is a flaw in the system.
As the fisheries of the world decline, the village folk may need to look to a new type of fishery....smaller limits or catch & release sport
fishing and I think government should make it more accessible to the local people.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
We also live in a biosphere reserve which is a grand concept but does have it's drawbacks for the local people. For example, people who have been
fishing here for generations who used to take visitors fishing...would like to get into the sport fishing industry but find it next to impossible to
do so.
The permit process is so expensive & complicated that few of them are successful which is a shame as they are very knowledgeable fishermen &
great guides. But they simply cant get through the red tape and would need much more business to make even a small profit taking into account the high
cost of obtaining permits. Many have tried & failed which I feel is a flaw in the system.
.... |
They are quite limited in their ability to compete as most of them have limited English skills so they do not have the access to all the free
internet advertising in English and the bulk of the clients are English speakers.
[Edited on 9-21-2013 by DianaT]
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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I remember RV'ers canning hundreds and hundreds of jars of yellowtail on gulf beaches then screaming when the marinas came around and confiscated the
canning equipment and canned fish.
They took it home, at some, gave even more away and let more than a little go bad and it had to be hauled to the dump. I saw this happen with my own
eyes from hooking to dumping - and it disgusted me.
So when midwater draggers show up to complete the job I just shake my head. I am assured by the sons of friends that the Sierra Nevada wilderness
areas are still superb - like the Yosemite North Boundary Sister Lakes Area.
The "Sea of Cortez" is finished. Kaput. If they wipe out the humbolt squid for use as fertilizer there goes the dorado. Might as well go fish the Otay
Lakes.
Don't worry about Biospheres. When a million pesceros start hammering at gobernacion "ways" will be found to violate the biospheres as well. Limited
fishing, less enforcement. The sardines are getting wiped out - fast. The cooperativas are begging for customers. It won't be long before sardines are
netted for fertilizer to keep the boats working.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
.....
Don't worry about Biospheres. When a million pesceros start hammering at gobernacion "ways" will be found to violate the biospheres as well. Limited
fishing, less enforcement. The sardines are getting wiped out - fast........ |
The Biosphere is not an easy concept. We would like to think of it as a well protected reserve, but a part of it includes economic and commercial
development. Also, it is VERY understaffed and underfunded and as far as some of those commercial fishing boats from the mainland, well often the
money and influence are taken care on the mainland.
The work the local Reserve has done has been good work, BUT far from perfect and with way more to go and there are always conflicting agencies
involved with different goals. Shoot, there was talk for a while of an oil refinery being built on part of the ejido land, but fortunately it did not
happen.
As far as fishing goes, I have heard from a number of locals who want to preserve the fisheries how much they resent outsiders who come and fish and
take home ice chest after ice chest full of fish. Maybe it makes a difference, and maybe it doesn't, especially in light of the commercial fishing
boats.
[Edited on 9-23-2013 by DianaT]
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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The number of calico bass being fished in that area is more than those kelp beds can sustain. The beds around San Roque and the islands aren't large
enough for the amount of fish the tourists are bringing back. Those fish were never targeted by the locals until tourists started to appear in bigger
numbers.
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gringorio
Senior Nomad
Posts: 812
Registered: 4-10-2004
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Member Is Offline
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Thanks everyone for your feedback to my question. Really interesting answers. All of you have so much information and history on the Sea. I have to
say, the observations shared here are a bit depressing. 
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Aqsurfer
Junior Nomad
Posts: 78
Registered: 7-6-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Hola Aaron. You wrote I have been a longtime visitor of the Bajanomad site but have not joined until recently" and since your profile says "member
since 7-6-2003" it made me a little curious so I checked you out on the members list. Sure enough that is when you joined but more significantly it
says that your site is Wildcoast Costa Salvaje (costasalvaje.com). COSTASALVAjE is an international conservation group whose mission is to conserve
marine and coastal ecosystems and wildlife. Thats a very good organization. What is your position there? |
Hola Robert,
Guess its time to edit my profile. I have not worked for wildcoast since 2005. I was fired 2-days after securing the financing (millions of dollars)
for the Laguna San Ignacio Conservation Alliance project (LSICA). After firing me, the director of wildcoast took credit for a project that he had
nothing to do with. The real heroes were Miguel Vargas of Pronatura, Fernando Ochoa of Derecho Ambiental del Noroeste, and myself. I structured the
conservation strategy, wrote the project proposal, secured the financing, and together with the Miguel and Fernando made it happen. A lot of credit
also goes to Joel Reynolds and Jacob Scherr. They had NRDC join the LSICA, they were critical to the project's (limited success). I say limited
because only one of the six ejidos have signed conservation agreements since 2005. Though I am proud to say that this project definitively killed the
Mitsubishi Salt project - it was lurking in the shadows for many years. I am currently writing a book about what happened and why Baja is lost.
The sad thing is that this didn't have to happen. The other place that the wildcoast director blew it at was at the Ejido la Purisima (1-million
acres including the entire Bahia Concepcion peninsula and the San Gregorio wetland south of San Juanico). Working with Miguel Vargas, we structured
conservation strategies that were fair to the ejidos, could have provided them with significant funding sources and created ejido focus on
environmental stewardship. In 2002, the ejido La Purisima overwhelmingly voted in favor of our conservation agreement. I submitted a memo outlining
the agreement, timeline and funding requirements. wildcoast's director informed me that he was not going to submit the project for funding. No
reason has ever been given. Carlos Slim now owns the 125,000 acre Bahia Concepcion peninsula. Muy triste.
I outlined what happened during these critical years during my lecture at the Aquarium of the Pacific. Here is the link to the webpage where you can
stream it, let me know what you think:
http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/multimedia/player/lecture_a...
Peace,
Aaron
ps. off to Bahia Asuncion with the lifeguards on Tuesday.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64757
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Thank you for that inside look into an eco organization that rakes in $$$ in the name of the environment.
I am wondering, can't a Mexican born organization have better results, so it doesn't appear like do-gooders from other countries are telling the
locals who they can sell land to?
Wildcoast (I thought) was trying to keep development out of the Seven Sisters area by buying the coast? After so many years collecting funds, they
have bought only 2 miles of the 200 mile coast, last I read???
Thank you for joining Nomad and sharing your experiences!!
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Aqsurfer
Junior Nomad
Posts: 78
Registered: 7-6-2004
Member Is Offline
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Hola David,
The money is public record and should be available on their website. If you can't find it, email them directly and ask for it.
Mexican NGO.
Up until 2005 when I was fired, wildcoast was working with a very good Mexican NGO, Pronatura. The true partnership broke apart on very bad terms and
wildcoast formed costa salvage (a mexican ngo, led by its american counterpart). The problem with Pornatura is that they never recovered from the
tragedy of the Ejido La Purisima. I refer to that catastrophic error by wildcoast's director as the Ghost of Bahia Concepcion. I talk about all this
in the Aquarium of the Pacific lecture. Check it out.
They have been buying surfing points. The problem with their strategy is that they should have worked out deals that included entire ejidos instead
of selective land purchases. A couple of things here. First, the initial round of purchases were made during the global economic catastrophe and the
height of the narco violence. If you thought things were bad in the US, Mex got hit far worse = desperate people. That meant unequal bargaining
power in land negotiations, the director bragged about it. Here is what he told a KPBS reporter.
http://www.wildcoast.net/media-center/news/525-environmental...
They should have used the Laguna San Ignacio Alliance model. Basically, a one-time significant direct payment to each ejido member and the
establishment of a conservation trust fund, in exchange for ejido-wide conservation agreements. This type of conservation agreement provides
communities with an annual payment that can be used for micro-credit programs, educational grants for their kids, medicinal grants to the elderly,
etc. If you ever go whale watching in San Ignacio, talk to the folks there about their trust fund and how it is being used.
Second, selective purchases only start mass lands sales. The money from these purchases was probably spent within a short period of time - the usual
stuff, a new truck (broke down within a year, need a new one), new appliances/furniture for the misses, loans to friends/family and a nice trip
somewhere. Money is quickly gone but lots more land to sell.
Watch what happens, a paved road is in the works. During a surf trip years ago, I came across a road surveying crew in the 7-sisters. We stopped and
talked to the crew. They said they were surveying the future road through Rancho Santa Catarina to Santa Rosalillita. They also said that the
Gonzaga road would be built first - one down, one to go.
Not good.
Peace,
Aaron
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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It ain't all bad folks. Take a look.
http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/showthread.php/516916-WFO!!...
[Edited on 10-3-2013 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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gringorio
Senior Nomad
Posts: 812
Registered: 4-10-2004
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Member Is Offline
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Since most, if not all, of you who responded to my initial inquiry, I have to ask: Why does it seem recreational fishermen seem to think their
activities have little or no effect on fish populations. Personally, I assume that recreational fishing has an affect on wild fish populations as
well as does commercial fishing.
Is there any recent data on the mortality rates of commonly targeted "catch and release" sport fish?
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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Casting a pretty wide net on that aren't you?
Big diference between a guy fishing from a tin boat and a San Diego party fishing boat in terms of "recreational" fishing don't you think?
| Quote: | Originally posted by gringorio
Since most, if not all, of you who responded to my initial inquiry, I have to ask: Why does it seem recreational fishermen seem to think their
activities have little or no effect on fish populations. Personally, I assume that recreational fishing has an affect on wild fish populations as
well as does commercial fishing.
Is there any recent data on the mortality rates of commonly targeted "catch and release" sport fish? |
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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gringorio
Senior Nomad
Posts: 812
Registered: 4-10-2004
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Member Is Offline
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Hi Fishbuck,
I don't know how wide the net can be cast, but I suspect it includes all players.
I am thinking that it doesn't matter if a recreational fisherman or a commercial fisherman catches (and kills) reproductively active fish. Or catches
a fish before it can reproduce. Both circumstances lead to the same end: No new fish.
If the situation in the Sea as is dire as most have said in this thread, then recreational fishermen also have to take responsibility for the decline
as well and not just blame the commercial fisheries. (I do recognize commercial fisheries, gill-netting etc. have a large impact).
In other words: Everyone is to blame and everyone (who takes part in fishing the Sea) should take responsibility for the decline and help take action
in a way that reverses the trend.
So, back to the last question asked in another way: What impact does the recreational fishery have on fish populations in the Sea of Cortez?
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18142
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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Catch and release! No one who cares about the environment and the resources takes home so much fish they need a second freezer in the garage!
I like wild coast. They have a good message, and an interesting vibe that seems to connect with youth. No org is perfect, good thing that most do
much more more good than bad.
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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These are good points for sure. All one has to do is look north of the border to know what will eventually happen to the waters off Baja and SOC.
An example is the rockfish of the California coast. This is strictly a recreation fish but even it is nearly wipped out forcing closure of some areas
where they spawn just to make sure they can survive.
The recreational boats will achor on top of the rockpile where these fish live everyday and haul out as many as they can. The fish are tiny because as
soon as 1 reaches legal size it is put in a fish sack. Any undersize fish will be caught a little later in the season.
The so called sustainable fishery can probably exist but who gets to say what is sustainable?
Your scientist or mine?
I mean the Tuna Club is on Catalina Island but good luck finding a tuna anywhere out there. There are a few being chased by hundreds of boats.
Don't know if it is true but I've heard stories that tuna and yellowtail were thick just outside Newport Harbor.
Where are they now?
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gringorio
Since most, if not all, of you who responded to my initial inquiry, I have to ask: Why does it seem recreational fishermen seem to think their
activities have little or no effect on fish populations. Personally, I assume that recreational fishing has an affect on wild fish populations as
well as does commercial fishing.
Is there any recent data on the mortality rates of commonly targeted "catch and release" sport fish? |
I've
been seeing some big impact here the last few days. There are thousands of dorado right now in this area, and I've been witnessing gross overfishing
by both gringos and Mexican pangeros. I had one pangero tell me straight out that he already had 70 fish in the boat, and this was at 10:30am, I have
seen several gringos bring in 15+ dorados, unfortunately about 75% of the fish being taken are big females that are engorged with roe. It breaks my
heart to see the resource being hammered like this, especially since it's so easy to ID and release the females. It's really sad that people who
depend on the sea for their livelihood could be so short sighted.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Mother nature's miracle fish. Female dorados lay up to 400,000 eggs in the open ocean every six weeks. When the eggs become fry they can, at times,
increase their weight by 10% a day.
Sea farmers, fishermen, are like farmers anywhere. If you had a garden that produced that often and grew that fast you would harvest it every time the
crop was ready to be eaten, sold, packaged, shipped.
The other wonder here is why men, Mexico and others have waited so long to annihilate them completely. We are so lucky to enjoy this wonder we can
only count our blessings and do what we can, on every level, to preserve this treasure. Go gringorio!
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