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rts551
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Quote: Originally posted by del mar  |  my first thought when this went sideways....this would never have been
tolerated over at TalkBaja! hmmmmm...... |
This forum is a different animal.
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rts551
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I will agree with this part. Working people pay taxes... Trump and his ilk do not.
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Barry A.
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Like all of us who take on risk and invest in iffy projects and Stocks for a living, Trump pays taxes on PROFITS, but not on LOSSES (duh), and if
there are more losses than profits, no Income taxes. There are hundreds of other kinds of taxes and fees that WE ALL PAY, including Trump. It is the
way the tax system is designed, at least for now, and we all take advantage of that if we know how to. Trump wants to change that, to the peoples
advantage. Read his platform on his website for more info.
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BajaGringo
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe |
If you're not a Trump fan, then if you ask me, you have to repudiate Trump in the harshest terms possible for running a bitter, divisive, and racist
campaign. |
I know and if I do decide to make the drive up and vote it will only be to cast an ANTI-Trump vote. I really do believe we are screwed no matter who
wins but the thought of seeing the smirking face of that orange sociopath after election day is enough to make me hurl...
| Quote: Originally posted by MMc |
The only thing you didn't mention is how Artificial Intelligence (AI) will change the world we know. 10 years from now our little world will be online
and machines will be running machines. We are headed into the biggest change the world has ever known, the industrial revolution and the information
revolution will seem small compared with what is coming. Most of America is watching the slight of hand. |
That was part of what I was referring to when I said the country should have been investing in preparing to soften the blow of the coming
globalization. We just have to accept that we can no longer expect to compete globally in the long term building cars, refrigerators and television
sets.
It is fairly obvious today that if we hadn't spent countless TRILLIONS on ridiculous wars and instead invested in taking the lead in more advanced
technology industries like green energy production / living / transportation and as you noted - robotics, the US economy today would look much
different and be in a much stronger position. But today is too late I fear as that ship has already left port with many European countries and Asia
now dominating those industries.
I used to own testing laboratories in California and that instrument market is completely dominated today by CHINESE manufactured robotics. Cheap and
efficient with the very few US competitors coming in way over-priced and outperformed.
<sigh>
| Quote: Originally posted by del mar | | my first thought when this went sideways....this would never have been
tolerated over at TalkBaja! hmmmmm...... |
True - I would have asked that it be moved over to Mexico Politico.
Actually several threads on this subject have already been posted there. As I have no admin status here on Baja Nomad, I can only post in threads
where Doug chooses to allow or move them.
Peace...
[Edited on 10-23-2016 by BajaGringo]
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MrBillM
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Donald at a Consistent Loss
IF Trump's LONG history of business activities over many years have resulted in losses so great that he has avoided paying ANY Federal income taxes
while living a leveraged and grossly lavish billionaire lifestyle...................
What does it say for his character other than that he found a formula of corruption which has allowed him to manipulate (and CHEAT) on a level
surpassing anyone else (not imprisoned) in comparison ?
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Barry A.
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BajaGringo says above:
"It is fairly obvious today that if we hadn't spent countless TRILLIONS on ridiculous wars and instead invested in taking the lead in more advanced
technology industries like green energy production / living / transportation and as you noted - robotics, the US economy today would look much
different and be in a much stronger position. But today is too late I fear as that ship has already left the port with many European countries and
Asia now dominating those industries."
That is true. But it is also true that Britian's PM Neville Chamberlin felt the same way back in the pre-WW II days, postponed any major effort to
stop Hitler, and almost lost his Country (and the Western world?) to Germany had not Churchill been elected and intervened. In the end, a very
expensive mistake in many different ways. There are always valid different sides to any argument.
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BajaGringo
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| Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM |
What does it say for his character other than that he found a formula of corruption which has allowed him to manipulate (and CHEAT) on a level
surpassing anyone else (not imprisoned) in comparison ?
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Exactly...
| Quote: Originally posted by Barry A. |
But it is also true that Britian's PM Neville Chamberlin felt the same way back in the pre-WW II days, postponed any major effort to stop Hitler, and
almost lost his Country (and the Western world?) to Germany had not Churchill been elected and intervened. In the end, a very expensive mistake in
many different ways. There are always valid different sides to any argument.
|
Yes and Osama Bin Laden/Al Qaeda were immediately identified as the culprits behind 9/11 and so we invade Iraq?
You sound just like Trump Barry, throwing out statements that sound good on the surface but really don't hold up to any serious analysis...
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Barry A.
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| Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM | IF Trump's LONG history of business activities over many years have resulted in losses so great that he has avoided paying ANY Federal income taxes
while living a leveraged and grossly lavish billionaire lifestyle...................
What does it say for his character other than that he found a formula of corruption which has allowed him to manipulate (and CHEAT) on a level
surpassing anyone else (not imprisoned) in comparison ?
|
Mr.Bill I am really surprised at this as you normally stick to facts and do your homework. Trump "avoided" paying Income taxes for the years that he
lost money big-time, but he has paid countless millions in Fed. Income Taxes for the years that he made his huge profits, and I am betting you know
this?!?!?!?! There was no "corruption" involved, no "cheating", and it was all legal. If you know differently, then I would really like to know
your sources.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by Barry A. | | Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM | IF Trump's LONG history of business activities over many years have resulted in losses so great that he has avoided paying ANY Federal income taxes
while living a leveraged and grossly lavish billionaire lifestyle...................
What does it say for his character other than that he found a formula of corruption which has allowed him to manipulate (and CHEAT) on a level
surpassing anyone else (not imprisoned) in comparison ?
|
Mr.Bill I am really surprised at this as you normally stick to facts and do your homework. Trump "avoided" paying Income taxes for the years that he
lost money big-time, but he has paid countless millions in Fed. Income Taxes for the years that he made his huge profits, and I am betting you know
this?!?!?!?! There was no "corruption" involved, no "cheating", and it was all legal. If you know differently, then I would really like to know
your sources.
|
We suspect fraud (cheating), as he has refused to release his tax returns, unlike any pres candidate in recent memory.
I am confident that if he released his tax returns, journalists and citizen investigators would find the fraud that IRS had neither time or resources
to find.
What is Donald trump hiding?????? 
[Edited on 10-23-2016 by mtgoat666]
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Barry A.
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaGringo |
| Quote: Originally posted by Barry A. |
But it is also true that Britian's PM Neville Chamberlin felt the same way back in the pre-WW II days, postponed any major effort to stop Hitler, and
almost lost his Country (and the Western world?) to Germany had not Churchill been elected and intervened. In the end, a very expensive mistake in
many different ways. There are always valid different sides to any argument.
|
Yes and Osama Bin Laden/Al Qaeda were immediately identified as the culprits behind 9/11 and so we invade Iraq?
You sound just like Trump Barry, throwing out statements that sound good on the surface but really don't hold up to any serious analysis...
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I "sound like Trump" because I believe in the essence of what Trump is telling us. "Serious analysis" when coming from the Left has become
subjective, biased, and often miss-leading these days, IMO. The left has their Agenda, as does the right.
In hind sight, I believe the invasion of Iraq was a mistake. Osama and Al Qaeda had very little to do with the decision to invade Iraq------much more
complex than that, and again I believe you know that, Gringo.
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BajaGringo
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| Quote: Originally posted by Barry A. |
Mr.Bill I am really surprised at this as you normally stick to facts and do your homework. Trump "avoided" paying Income taxes for the years that he
lost money big-time, but he has paid countless millions in Fed. Income Taxes for the years that he made his huge profits, and I am betting you know
this?!?!?!?! There was no "corruption" involved, no "cheating", and it was all legal. If you know differently, then I would really like to know
your sources.
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Barry, can you be so naive as to really believe that?
Billionaires have long used high paid lobbyists to help write the rules they benefit from, rules that average joes like you and I could never even
dream of benefitting from. If you’re avoiding taxes by using tax laws that you helped to write, that doesn’t make you smart, it makes you an intricate
part of the corrupt system we now live in.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-donations-alan-hev...
It totally blows my mind how people can continue to support and defend this man. You all have truly been drinking too much orange kool-Aid...
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BajaGringo
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You Pay Taxes So Donald Trump Doesn't Have To
He says only a tax genius like him can make the tax code more fair. Oddly, that's not what his plan would do at all.
Capping off an extraordinary week of blunders and bumbles, Donald Trump learned Saturday night that The New York Times had obtained pages of his 1995
tax return showing that not only did he report a $916 million loss, but according to tax experts, that loss could have enabled him to avoid paying
federal taxes for as many as 18 years, even as he made healthy profits after his failures in Atlantic City. For a man who just days earlier had
responded "That makes me smart"—to the horror of his campaign advisers, no doubt—when Hillary Clinton accused him of refusing to show his tax returns
because he may have paid no federal taxes at all, this was not exactly welcome news.
But Trump and his allies were ready to spin. Early Sunday morning, he tweeted, "I know our complex tax laws better than anyone who has ever run for
president and am the only one who can fix them." If this argument sounds familiar, it's because he has said the same thing many times about legal
forms of influence-buying and political corruption: as someone deeply engaged in that sordid activity, "I alone can fix it," in the words he used in
his convention speech.
But in both cases, the truth is that Trump has neither any ideas about how to actually fix it, nor any evident intention to do so. If you're
unacquainted with Trump's plan to change the system to eliminate political corruption, it's because he doesn't have one. Similarly, he doesn't have a
plan to make the tax system more fair to ordinary people who don't have the benefit of accountants and lawyers who can bend the system to his will.
Indeed, the guiding principle of his tax plan, such as it is, is that wealthy people like him should pay even less than they do now.
But let's take a moment to consider Trump's claim that only someone with his detailed and nuanced knowledge of the tax code could possibly address its
problems. For its story, the Times tracked down Trump's accountant at the time, one Jack Mitnick, who verified that the documents were legitimate. He
also said that Trump showed little interest in how tax law worked; when he and his first wife Ivana came to sign documents, Ivana would ask more
questions than her husband. "But if Mr. Trump lacked a sophisticated understanding of the tax code, and if he rarely showed any interest in the
details behind various tax strategies, Mr. Mitnick said he clearly grasped the critical role taxes would play in helping him build wealth. 'He knew we
could use the tax code to protect him,' Mr. Mitnick said."
And how. As the Prospect's Justin Miller recently reported, the real estate industry has been extraordinarily successful in stocking the tax code with
enough loopholes and deductions to enable developers like Trump to amass huge fortunes without the inconvenience of paying too much in taxes. And as
tax law expert Edward McCaffrey pointed out, we shouldn't assume that the $916 million loss was Trump's own money; he could have lost other people's
money, as he is fond of saying he's adept at doing, then used the losses to lower his own tax bill.
Trump's allies were plainly instructed to characterize the story of the lost near-billion and subsequent tax avoidance as evidence only of Trump's
awe-inspiring intellect. "The reality is he's a genius," said Rudy Giuliani on Meet the Press, making clear that what Einstein was to theoretical
physics, Trump is to tax law. Giuliani also appeared on This Week to repeat the hosanna to Trump's glory; asked by George Stephanopoulos to respond to
the story, he said, "My response is he's a genius." Completing a glorious bootlicking trifecta, Rudy went on CNN's State of the Union to say, "The man
is a genius. ... It shows what a genius he is." Over on Fox News Sunday, there was by sheer coincidence a similar chorus being sung. "There's no one
who's shown more genius in their way to maneuver about the tax code as he rightfully used the laws to do that," said Chris Christie. "And the genius
that Donald Trump has been" means that "there's no one who's better suited to change these laws than someone like him."
You might want to sit down before you hear the shocking news that Donald Trump's tax plan does not actually reorient the American tax code to make it
less generous to the wealthyYou might want to sit down before you hear the shocking news that Donald Trump's tax plan does not actually reorient the
American tax code to make it less generous to the wealthy and more so to those unable to experience the daily wonder of crapping in a gold-plated
toilet. According to Citizens for Tax Justice, the latest iteration of Trump's tax plan would give an average benefit of $200 to people in the bottom
20 percent of the income scale, and $818 to those in the middle 20 percent. Which is nice, but it doesn't quite compare to the average benefit of
$88,410 that those in the top 1 percent would get. Among other things Trump would eliminate the inheritance tax entirely (a big relief for Donny Jr.,
Ivanka, and Eric, though if I were Tiffany I wouldn't be counting any chickens), and has suggested that he wants to allow individuals who get their
income from "pass-through" entities (like his company) to pay tax at a new 15 percent corporate rate, an absolutely spectacular cut for wealthy people
who now pay at the top marginal rate of 39.6 percent.
In fairness, we don't know for sure if he really wants this pass-through provision, because he says contradictory things about it depending on whom
he's talking to. But the truth is that the details of Trump's tax plan are essentially irrelevant. If he's elected, he will almost certainly bring a
Republican Congress with him, and it will be their tax plan, not his, that they will pass and he will sign.
And the plan released by Paul Ryan may be even more generous to the wealthy than Trump's. Ryan wants to eliminate the estate tax, cut rates on both
wage income and investment income, and slash corporate rates, too. In fact, while the CTJ's analysis says that 44 percent of the benefits of Trump's
tax plan go the top 1 percent, fully 60 percent of the benefits of Ryan's plan are scooped up by those patriotic job creators; they get an average
benefit of $137,780, compared to $753 for those in middle and $107 for those at the bottom.
Donald Trump is hardly the only billionaire (if he indeed is one) whose accountants can get them out of paying taxes. But in order to believe that he
has even the barest intention of changing the tax system to make that harder for people like him to do, you'd have to ignore what his actual tax plan
is, and those of his congressional allies. And you'd have to ignore pretty much everything he's said and done during this campaign. But hey, the guy
is a genius—maybe he's playing this at a level so complex none of us mere mortals can understand.
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Barry A.
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Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | | Quote: Originally posted by Barry A. | | Quote: Originally posted by MrBillM | IF Trump's LONG history of business activities over many years have resulted in losses so great that he has avoided paying ANY Federal income taxes
while living a leveraged and grossly lavish billionaire lifestyle...................
What does it say for his character other than that he found a formula of corruption which has allowed him to manipulate (and CHEAT) on a level
surpassing anyone else (not imprisoned) in comparison ?
|
Mr.Bill I am really surprised at this as you normally stick to facts and do your homework. Trump "avoided" paying Income taxes for the years that he
lost money big-time, but he has paid countless millions in Fed. Income Taxes for the years that he made his huge profits, and I am betting you know
this?!?!?!?! There was no "corruption" involved, no "cheating", and it was all legal. If you know differently, then I would really like to know
your sources.
|
We suspect fraud (cheating), as he has refused to release his tax returns, unlike any pres candidate in recent memory.
I am confident that if he released his tax returns, journalists and citizen investigators would find the fraud that IRS had neither time or resources
to find.
What is Donald trump hiding??????
[Edited on 10-23-2016 by mtgoat666] |
My educated guess as to "what is he hiding" are incredibly complicated Tax Returns that can be interpreted and miss-interpreted in many different ways
that would open up a can-of-worms, regardless of the fact that they are really totally legit. As you know, you can have your taxes done by 5
different Accountants and can come up with 5 different "taxes owed" in the end. The Tax system is a nightmare, and very few understand it completely.
I pay thousands each year to have my taxes done----believe me i know!!! The avoidance of accusations and nit-pick questions by the Media and
other's is worth the criticism of not releasing the forms, he must feel. The IRS uses their "limited resources" to concentrate on high-rollers like
Trump----thus his many audits. This is exactly why Trump wants to simplify the Federal Tax Code which will benefit EVERYBODY. (except the
Accountants)
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AKgringo
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Peso's in Anchorage
Wells Fargo will only give me 17.40 today, and they don't care who I am voting for. Apparently, peso's increase in value further north!
Now you guys can get back to the cat fight.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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Lee
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Some folks here are not up to speed.
Doesn't really matter if you want trump to win or not. He is losing the race. Clinton will be voted in. Call it rigged. Doesn't matter.
Repubs will lose majority as well. Repubs should have pulled the plug on trump early on. Blame them for Clinton winning.
Not too late for the losers here to get with the winning team.
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: Originally posted by Barry A. |
My educated guess as to "what is he hiding" are incredibly complicated Tax Returns that can be interpreted and miss-interpreted in many different ways
that would open up a can-of-worms, regardless of the fact that they are really totally legit. As you know, you can have your taxes done by 5
different Accountants and can come up with 5 different "taxes owed" in the end. The Tax system is a nightmare, and very few understand it completely.
I pay thousands each year to have my taxes done----believe me i know!!! The avoidance of accusations and nit-pick questions by the Media and
other's is worth the criticism of not releasing the forms, he must feel. The IRS uses their "limited resources" to concentrate on high-rollers like
Trump----thus his many audits. This is exactly why Trump wants to simplify the Federal Tax Code which will benefit EVERYBODY. (except the
Accountants)
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Barry wrote: ""I pay thousands each year to have my taxes done----believe me i know!"
Really?
You're retired, so why do you need complicated tax returns that costs thousands of dollars each year?
Are you that rich Barry?
Remember, what I told you before, don't make it about yourself, and you'll be OK.
I'm sure Trump, legally took those millions in tax deductions, because back then the rules, especially for real estate tycoons were very favorable,
but it's still not right or fair, when very few people could forward their losses on their tax returns for that many years.
Trump, won't release his tax returns, because of the sure embarrassment in a number of different ways.
BTW Barry, it has pretty much been determined in the polls that Trump is going to lose, because he is trailing in most of the battleground states. So
unless Trump pulls off a miracle in the next few weeks, and that's doubtful. It looks like he is going down in defeat.
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Barry A.
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Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe | | Quote: Originally posted by Barry A. |
My educated guess as to "what is he hiding" are incredibly complicated Tax Returns that can be interpreted and miss-interpreted in many different ways
that would open up a can-of-worms, regardless of the fact that they are really totally legit. As you know, you can have your taxes done by 5
different Accountants and can come up with 5 different "taxes owed" in the end. The Tax system is a nightmare, and very few understand it completely.
I pay thousands each year to have my taxes done----believe me i know!!! The avoidance of accusations and nit-pick questions by the Media and
other's is worth the criticism of not releasing the forms, he must feel. The IRS uses their "limited resources" to concentrate on high-rollers like
Trump----thus his many audits. This is exactly why Trump wants to simplify the Federal Tax Code which will benefit EVERYBODY. (except the
Accountants)
|
Barry wrote: ""I pay thousands each year to have my taxes done----believe me i know!"
Really?
You're retired, so why do you need complicated tax returns that costs thousands of dollars each year?
Are you that rich Barry?
Remember, what I told you before, don't make it about yourself, and you'll be OK.
I'm sure Trump, legally took those millions in tax deductions, because back then the rules, especially for real estate tycoons were very favorable,
but it's still not right or fair, when very few people could forward their losses on their tax returns for that many years.
Trump, won't release his tax returns, because of the sure embarrassment in a number of different ways.
BTW Barry, it has pretty much been determined in the polls that Trump is going to lose, because he is trailing in most of the battleground states. So
unless Trump pulls off a miracle in the next few weeks, and that's doubtful. It looks like he is going down in defeat.
|
"Rich"?--- compared to what? My wife and I have been investing since I was 30 which was 48 years ago. Many of our investments are in Partnerships
and other complicated instruments, so taxes are complicated and I have no desire to get into the mud with that stuff, so I hire it done, and I have to
pay for that. We suffered enough realized losses in 2009 that for 4 years after we paid no Fed. Income taxes, but in the good years we paid big-time
Fed. taxes. We have had lots of good years, and some bad years.
The rest of what you say here I pretty much agree with. It will be very interesting to see what happens on Nov. 8.
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