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Cliffy
Senior Nomad
Posts: 986
Registered: 12-19-2013
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"Cliffy falsely stated that they "kill the earth" under them, which they do not."
Pray tell just what happens when a new solar field is developed and they go in and denude the entire project area of ALL vegetation and living beings?
No one yet has answered the questions of cradle to grave costs on wind and solar.
No one yet has answered the question of how we get rid of dino juice power plants and still power the grid when the sun don't shine or the wind don't
blow or we have fluctuating power grid demands.
How about hydro power? Why not build more dams and generate clean power? OH I forgot -THAT is an environmental disaster under the water but scraping
the ground clean under solar panels is not> HMMMM
Without dino juice power the grid fails Period! And dont go to the "we'll have better batteries to handle it" route. That ain't going to happen on an
national scale in anyone's life time (not to mention the environmental disaster just making the batteries would involve).
Putting up a few panels on your roof to power what is in reality a campsite doesn't come close in scale to powering the entire grid with "renewables".
No problem for you to do for your microcosm but at scale for the entire grid it ain't gonna work anytime soon.
To preach that the sky is falling unless we go green is just fear mongering.
Without government subsidy the price of wind and solar energy would go way up and be non-competitive to dino juice power, Without the subsidies you
wouldn't even have a solar or wind industry.
You say dino juice has subsidies also? OK I'm all for dropping ALL government subsidies across the board and letting the market determine the winners
and not a government mandated program.
You say I'm against EVs- NOT SO by any means. Just the mandating of the technology and not the vehicle itself.
Just remember the horsepower has to come from somewhere
Also, let EVs compete without government subsidies.
Hybrid cars may be the best solution and not straight EVs.
As many do they just sit a pontificate about this all the while not addressing the problems ahead if it goes that way
Attached below is a link showing just what happens when emotion gets in the way of sound engineering-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BD_wkP91P0&list=TLPQMDM...
[Edited on 10-3-2024 by Cliffy]
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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cupcake
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Posts: 159
Registered: 4-23-2024
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Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy  |
Solar fields are "environmentally" friendly?
Do we realize that UNDER every solar field EVERY living thing is cut clean off the ground (every plant and animal removed from the earth under the
panels) before the first panel is brought in.
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Solar project to destroy thousands of Joshua trees in the Mojave Desert
https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2024-05-31/solar-p...
If only there was a way to tranfer the electricity, there could be emense solar panels orbiting the earth. Perhaps Elon Musk will devise such a
technology.
[Edited on 10-3-2024 by cupcake]
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SFandH
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Posts: 7084
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That's unfortunate. From the article:
"The person with knowledge of the project said the company’s plan now included destroying 3,500 Joshua trees."
I wonder how many Joshua trees are in the area. Is 3,500 1%, 10%, 50%, what? That's the way to look at it.
[Edited on 10-3-2024 by SFandH]
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cupcake
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I don't know the answer to that question. This one site is 2,300 acres. This will be the ninth site this company has built in Kern County.
"When asked why the company decided to put the project on land next to the two towns, Sundquist said that executives wanted to keep the solar field in
Kern County rather than farther south in San Bernardino. “We like doing business here,” he said.
In 2019, San Bernardino County Supervisors voted to ban the construction of large solar and wind farms on more than 1 million acres of private land."
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18546
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Online
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH |
That's unfortunate. From the article:
"The person with knowledge of the project said the company’s plan now included destroying 3,500 Joshua trees."
I wonder how many Joshua trees are in the area. Is 3,500 1%, 10%, 50%, what? That's the way to look at it.
[Edited on 10-3-2024 by SFandH] |
Do we really need to protect the joshua tree? I mean, it is pretty ugly. Doesn't provide much shade. What use is it? 
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18546
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by cupcake | I don't know the answer to that question. This one site is 2,300 acres. This will be the ninth site this company has built in Kern County.
"When asked why the company decided to put the project on land next to the two towns, Sundquist said that executives wanted to keep the solar field in
Kern County rather than farther south in San Bernardino. “We like doing business here,” he said.
In 2019, San Bernardino County Supervisors voted to ban the construction of large solar and wind farms on more than 1 million acres of private land."
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They choose land based on:
Productivity
Land price
Cost/ease of tieing into the grid
Permitability
I applaud local communities doing land planning to save their community in the face of destruction by developers. What would you rather live next to?
Undeveloped desert, farm land, ta ta bar, meth lab, homeless shelter, or industrial utility-scale solar plant?
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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cupcake
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Posts: 159
Registered: 4-23-2024
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Joshua Tree
https://www.nwf.org/Educational-Resources/Wildlife-Guide/Pla...
"This type of interaction, where two organisms are dependent upon each other for mutual benefits, is called a mutualistic symbiotic relationship. A
number of other animals are also served by Joshua trees. For example, 25 bird species nest in Joshua trees. Lizards and invertebrates use various
parts of the tree for cover, and a number of mammals rely on Joshua trees for food."
[Edited on 10-4-2024 by cupcake]
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
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Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
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Tioloco,
Living off the grid is “camping” and you can’t use mechanized farm equipment under solar panels is right up there with Gila Bend (and Phoenix)
was a nice place before the “round eyes” moved there and screwed up the weather!
Phoenix was a hell hole during the Korean war. I was there. People grew their lawns under water it was so hot!
Is your “experience” in agriculture growing what you smoke?
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Tioloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2960
Registered: 7-30-2014
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | Tioloco,
Living off the grid is “camping” and you can’t use mechanized farm equipment under solar panels is right up there with Gila Bend (and Phoenix)
was a nice place before the “round eyes” moved there and screwed up the weather!
Phoenix was a hell hole during the Korean war. I was there. People grew their lawns under water it was so hot!
Is your “experience” in agriculture growing what you smoke? |
Ok, go to Salinas and tell me how your solar panels in the field will work out. Clue- it WONT. And for clarity, I have never "smoked" anything.
As for "camping", like I have previously stated- Solar works for situations like my off-grid house in Mexico but it is NOT as convenient as being on
grid nor will it ever be.
Phoenix is hot in the summer. Is getting hotter because of the urban sprawl with concrete- not because of "Climate Change" per se. Living in the
desert in summer is easier and more comfortable than living in the forest with snow in the winter but that is just a personal opinion.
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Tioloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2960
Registered: 7-30-2014
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy | "Cliffy falsely stated that they "kill the earth" under them, which they do not."
Pray tell just what happens when a new solar field is developed and they go in and denude the entire project area of ALL vegetation and living beings?
No one yet has answered the questions of cradle to grave costs on wind and solar.
No one yet has answered the question of how we get rid of dino juice power plants and still power the grid when the sun don't shine or the wind don't
blow or we have fluctuating power grid demands.
How about hydro power? Why not build more dams and generate clean power? OH I forgot -THAT is an environmental disaster under the water but scraping
the ground clean under solar panels is not> HMMMM
Without dino juice power the grid fails Period! And dont go to the "we'll have better batteries to handle it" route. That ain't going to happen on an
national scale in anyone's life time (not to mention the environmental disaster just making the batteries would involve).
Putting up a few panels on your roof to power what is in reality a campsite doesn't come close in scale to powering the entire grid with "renewables".
No problem for you to do for your microcosm but at scale for the entire grid it ain't gonna work anytime soon.
To preach that the sky is falling unless we go green is just fear mongering.
Without government subsidy the price of wind and solar energy would go way up and be non-competitive to dino juice power, Without the subsidies you
wouldn't even have a solar or wind industry.
You say dino juice has subsidies also? OK I'm all for dropping ALL government subsidies across the board and letting the market determine the winners
and not a government mandated program.
You say I'm against EVs- NOT SO by any means. Just the mandating of the technology and not the vehicle itself.
Just remember the horsepower has to come from somewhere
Also, let EVs compete without government subsidies.
Hybrid cars may be the best solution and not straight EVs.
As many do they just sit a pontificate about this all the while not addressing the problems ahead if it goes that way
Attached below is a link showing just what happens when emotion gets in the way of sound engineering-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BD_wkP91P0&list=TLPQMDM...
[Edited on 10-3-2024 by Cliffy] |
Cliffy, you are on point as usual. Will just leave this in your hands and let the usual players here scramble.
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Salsa
Nomad
Posts: 174
Registered: 2-4-2003
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Mu take on all of this is
Concrete Jungles Cause the Earth to Heat UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don
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Tioloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2960
Registered: 7-30-2014
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You are correct!
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
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Here’s an interesting but technical paper on the social effects of extreme naturally occurring changes in the cycle of El Niño-Southern Oscillation
(ENSO) between 900AD and 1500AD. This was well before the industrial revolution and human caused climate change is thought to have begin.
The paper documents rapid climate and sea level changes associated with ENSO over a multi hundred year period unrelated to human induced climate
change effecting the Pacific Islands and PreColumbian Mexico.
While dealing primarily with the effects of the ENSO cycle on construction activity the paper does wonder if the increased co-option of resources over
a long period(think increased taxes here!)by the central authorities caused the local population to replace them with a more representative and local
system of government!
https://academic.oup.com/pnasnexus/article/3/10/pgae399/7795...
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AKgringo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6043
Registered: 9-20-2014
Location: Anchorage, AK (no mas!)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Retireded
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An interesting developement in my local climate this year
I am once again living where I grew up and even when I was mainly in Alaska I was in touch with family and friends that still lived here. None of us
can remember a year when the acorn crop falling from the oak trees was so heavy!
There are not only copious quantities of acorns, but they are unusually large, and the moths or other bugs that plant larvae in the developing nuts
don't seem to have thrived this year.
This summer was unusually hot after a winter that was above average precipitation with low elevation snow (just like I remember as a kid).
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
Posts: 1711
Registered: 2-22-2020
Member Is Online
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We are expecting a wetter and cooler fall and winter than average as well as per forecasts and still filling our latest hydro reservoir expansion
which will allow us to replace the imports of coal fired energy from the US once again. Time to get the snowblower tuned and the ski equipment updated
as we are expecting a much increased snow pack this winter compared to last winter. Pretty much like the winters we had 40-50 years back. Right
now...tons of swarming birds and far fewer insects around and as a bonus, the starfish have returned to our harbour after a multi year decline.
But perhaps the best news, especially for the indigenous fishing industry is the increased salmon returns this year following the heavy flush of
spawning streams we are experiencing:
https://www.castanet.net/news/Vernon/511515/Pacific-salmon-a...
“We’ve seen returning salmon already across the Interior, including a record-breaking sockeye salmon run in the Okanagan and the return of an
adult Okanagan summer Chinook to Okanagan Lake for the first time in recent history,” said Chloe Fraser, with the foundation."
Columbia River Sockeye Salmon Returns were far beyond predictions as well:
https://strikeandcatch.com/insane-columbia-river-sockeye-run...
[Edited on 10-19-2024 by JDCanuck]
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ORphil
Nomad
Posts: 129
Registered: 11-24-2019
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | | Quote: Originally posted by ORphil | No, no Tio. Don't dodge the main question I had. What about the CCC and the WPA building infrastructure for the common good of the people that we
still enjoy today? Communism? Left to the utilities, we wouldn't have fiber optic in many rural areas that we do now due to fed dollars. Not much
different from bringing electricity to the nation during the new deal.
If it makes sense to fund and alternative energy sources and programs to make the US more independent and enviromentally friendly no matter what your
"beliefs" are wouldn't that be a positive endeavour? Who is the loser? Oil.
I'm a c'monist. C'mon man. |
Not dodging anything comrade. Your favorite energy "alternatives" dont work and arent needed. We currently have over 100 years of fossil fuels alone.
This is about income redistribution and political control. In time, there will certainly be advancements in energy production that actually work. This
just aint it.
[Edited on 7-15-2024 by Tioloco] |
Reminds me of a ancient fella I used to know long since passed away. He would say "we better smoke it up before its gone"
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JZ
Select Nomad
Posts: 10823
Registered: 10-3-2003
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Microsoft has a deal to help re-open Three Mile Island. They need the power for AI which relies on massive data centers.
Three Mile Island nuclear plant to reopen, sell power to Microsoft
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/three-mile-island-microsoft-nuc...
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