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Tioloco
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From what I just read, as of 2023 China was the worlds biggest CO2 emitter. and was the previous few years as well.
Although I don't know how they calculate or how honest their reporting is.
China 33% of worlds CO2 pollution
USA 12%
[Edited on 5-11-2025 by Tioloco]
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JDCanuck
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Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco  | From what I just read, as of 2023 China was the worlds biggest CO2 emitter. and was the previous few years as well.
Although I don't know how they calculate or how honest their reporting is.
China 33% of worlds CO2 pollution
USA 12%
[Edited on 5-11-2025 by Tioloco] |
That was correct at that time, although they have made huge strides in converting to electric transportation from gas and diesel in the past two
years. Most people prefer to use the CO2 per capita calculation which puts China still at 2/3 per capita of the US in CO2 production. China and North
America both have huge supplies of coal and this is why solid oxide fuel cells that could convert from coal to electricity(Clean Coal) directly
without combustion at very high efficiencies would benefit everyone.
The newest stealthiest subs for example use Hydrogen fed fuel cells which means in addition to being very silent and sonar resistant they release next
to no heat. Canada is considering buying them from Germany/Norway for that reason to hide in northern waters. The disadvantage to Nuclear is they
release twice as much waste heat as they do energy.
Bloom Energy in the US is the largest solid oxide fuel cell producer and growing sales very quickly.
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mtgoat666
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CO2
Usa emits 14.2 tons per capita.
China emits 8.9 tons per capita.
Seems like china is greener than usa!
China is working on reducing their carbon footprint. Usa was once a world leader in science and tech to reduce carbon emissions. Usa under trump has
created policies to try to kill reductions in carbon emissions.
Hopefully our American scientists and engineers can find work overseas working in countries that care, and then return to usa after trump is gone.
[Edited on 5-11-2025 by mtgoat666]
Woke!
Hands off!
“Por el bien de todos, primero los pobres.”
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Pronoun: the royal we
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | CO2
Usa emits 14.2 tons per capita.
China emits 8.9 tons per capita.
Seems like china is greener than usa!
China is working on reducing their carbon footprint. Usa was once a world leader in science and tech to reduce carbon emissions. Usa under trump has
created policies to try to kill reductions in carbon emissions.
Hopefully our American scientists and engineers can find work overseas working in countries that care, and then return to usa after trump is gone.
[Edited on 5-11-2025 by mtgoat666] |
Per capita is meaningless.
Gross output is what the earth is having to handle. On an individual basis, John Kerry flying around the world "talking" about pollution created more
pollution than millions of remote Chinese villagers. But his trips as Climate Czar were very productive, correct?
Again, The wealthiest most consumer driven country on the planet only produces 12% of CO2.
Climate policy clubbing Americans in the kneecap is nothing more than government mandated redistribution of wealth.
Mother Earth does NOT approve!
[Edited on 5-11-2025 by Tioloco]
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JZ
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People pimping for communist China with all their human rights violations is rich.
Try going to China sometime and see what's going on for yourself. I've been a dozen times. The pollution at all their major cities is level 10 bad.
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JDCanuck
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Here is an explanation of why China's oil use has likely peaked out, and the major factors:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/chinas-crude-oil...
"China in 2024 was a let down with the market expecting steady to stronger growth from 2023. Deflationary pressures and transport electrification
dampened growth," said Emril Jamil, senior analyst with LSEG ahead of the data release.
China's demand for key transportation fuels barely grew in 2024, as rapid electrification of its vehicle fleet displaced gasoline while a property
sector crisis and lacklustre merchandise exports crimped demand for diesel.
Analysts said China's demand for fuels, except those used as petrochemical feedstocks, peaked in 2023, as growth in aviation fuel failed to make up
for the falls in gasoline and diesel.
[Edited on 5-11-2025 by JDCanuck]
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Cliffy
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A couple of thoughts-
Direct to electricity fuel cells - seem like an interesting way to go
If electric vehicles are so wanted by the "world" why not let the market determine its viability rather than force it through regulations?
You know like- make a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door?
Could it be that not EVERYONE thinks they want an electric vehicle?
Could it be that not everyone thinks the sky is falling?
Could it be that not everyone (including notable climate scientists) think that the world is in immanent danger?
The gorilla in the room-
What pray tell makes all the electricity that charges the electric vehicles?
Could it be dino juice?
Horse power is horse power no matter where it comes from or where it is used.
Something has to produce the horsepower. It ain't gonna be windmills
"Tilting at Windmills " Cervantes
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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mtgoat666
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Wind and solar today provide over 16 percent of USA elec generation. That is huge change in just a few decades. 
Today wind and solar are cheaper energy source than gas and coal.
What’s not to like about renewable generation?
Woke!
Hands off!
“Por el bien de todos, primero los pobres.”
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Pronoun: the royal we
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JZ
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
Wind and solar today provide over 16 percent of USA elec generation. That is huge change in just a few decades.
Today wind and solar are cheaper energy source than gas and coal.
What’s not to like about renewable generation?
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Where do all the wind blades go after their useful life? They aren't renewable. How many birds do they kill? Why don't Dems want them anywhere near
where they live? Is the energy actually being saved some where?
And then this. Obama threw billions into the toliet.
11 Years After a Celebrated Opening, Massive Solar Plant Faces a Bleak Future in the Mojave Desert
https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2025-01-30/11-years-...
If you were serious about better energy sources you'd stop posting about solar and wind and tell us about nuclear. Btw, there are so many nuclear
projects and technology starting up. They are needed to power all the new AI-based data centers, etc. Microsoft is a big proponent. Trump is
backing them.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by JZ | | Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
Wind and solar today provide over 16 percent of USA elec generation. That is huge change in just a few decades.
Today wind and solar are cheaper energy source than gas and coal.
What’s not to like about renewable generation?
|
Where do all the wind blades go after their useful life? They aren't renewable.
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Pee wee Dumb dumb,
Where do all the combustion residues go after the fossil fuel plant consumes the coal or oil? Where does the fossil fuel power plant equipment go
after its useful life?
Woke!
Hands off!
“Por el bien de todos, primero los pobres.”
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Pronoun: the royal we
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JZ
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Answer the other questions. Why don't rich liberals now want these things any where near them?
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mtgoat666
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Doesnt matter your politics, most people dont want industrial plants near their home. That’s why factories get built near poor people, and that is
is why unethical pols like Trump eliminated environmental justice activities from USEPA.
Woke!
Hands off!
“Por el bien de todos, primero los pobres.”
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Pronoun: the royal we
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Cliffy
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What kind of energy and how much does it take to build a windmill?
Why is Europe abandoning wind and solar?
How can we deliver the power needed for the coming AI revolution?
Certainly not with windmills and also - large scale solar plants are failing
what about the environmental impact of just building a large solar field?
Not just the land clearing of every living thing but also all the mining and power needed to make the solar cells? Is that being done with windmills?
Hardly!
Lets consider just how much mining is needed to build millions of car batteries?
Will the mining be done with battery powered shovels?
Will the overburden be removed by battery powered dump trucks?
Will the transportation of the mined minerals be done with battery powered ships? Or battery powered trains?
Just where will the eco proponents allow all these mines to be dug?
You can't convert to battery car as a major mode of transportation without more huge mines and ore processing.
IIRC the current carbon footprint for a battery car stands at about 60,000 miles before it even gets sold.
People need to face the facts-
Not every climate scientist subscribes to the sky is falling theory
Dino juice power ain't going away anytime soon- the physics of the world generation needs preclude that from ever happening in 5 lifetimes.
Just like Gore's "the world will die in 10 years!" didn't age too well (how long go was that?)
Especially considering he had a carbon offset company that he was promoting. Maybe a little self serving?
Again the world physics for power needs just can not be met by windmills!
BTW anyone have a current picture of the palm tree that sparked this thread?
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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JDCanuck
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Cliffy: Europe isn't abandoning Wind and Solar, on the contrary in 2024
https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/european-electricit...
Coal and gas power fell by 16% and 6% respectively, compared to 2023. This caused EU power sector emissions to fall by 9% to an estimated 585 million
tonnes of CO2, less than half their 2007 peak.
...and...
Solar was the fastest growing EU power source in 2024, with generation 22% (+54 TWh) higher than 2023. Wind and solar together reached a record share
of 29% of the EU’s power mix in 2024. This helped push renewables to nearly half (47%) of total EU electricity generation.
All the larger developed or rapidly developing nations including China are rapidly converting from petroleum and coal based power to renewables, the
only exception being India where GDP growth is increasing power demands far faster than they can install renewables. The reason is it's far cheaper to
do so than stick with older outmoded inefficient supplies. China is just doing it faster than we are, which is leading to even higher growth rates
there.
[Edited on 5-11-2025 by JDCanuck]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cliffy | What kind of energy and how much does it take to build a windmill?
Why is Europe abandoning wind and solar?
How can we deliver the power needed for the coming AI revolution?
Certainly not with windmills and also - large scale solar plants are failing
what about the environmental impact of just building a large solar field?
Not just the land clearing of every living thing but also all the mining and power needed to make the solar cells? Is that being done with windmills?
Hardly!
Lets consider just how much mining is needed to build millions of car batteries?
Will the mining be done with battery powered shovels?
Will the overburden be removed by battery powered dump trucks?
Will the transportation of the mined minerals be done with battery powered ships? Or battery powered trains?
Just where will the eco proponents allow all these mines to be dug?
You can't convert to battery car as a major mode of transportation without more huge mines and ore processing.
IIRC the current carbon footprint for a battery car stands at about 60,000 miles before it even gets sold.
People need to face the facts-
Not every climate scientist subscribes to the sky is falling theory
Dino juice power ain't going away anytime soon- the physics of the world generation needs preclude that from ever happening in 5 lifetimes.
Just like Gore's "the world will die in 10 years!" didn't age too well (how long go was that?)
Especially considering he had a carbon offset company that he was promoting. Maybe a little self serving?
Again the world physics for power needs just can not be met by windmills!
BTW anyone have a current picture of the palm tree that sparked this thread? |
Distributed solar, like rooftop residential is great. My net-metered house has been net positive generator for 10 years
Cliffy, your pessimism is just ignorant ludditism!
Woke!
Hands off!
“Por el bien de todos, primero los pobres.”
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Pronoun: the royal we
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JDCanuck
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MTGoat: We looked at that here in Canada, and despite the much lower solar incidence it is being embraced somewhat by our neighbours. Still too long a
payback for me, better putting my cash in reducing transportation costs at present. Biggest negative is extremely high installation and permit costs
by the few approved installers.
Maybe if our utility costs were as high as yours it would come faster and the payback would arrive sooner?
We have done a cost comparison on our EV and so far it costs about 8 dollars in our hydro cost vs 70 in gas costs for an equivalent trip, and
maintenance amounts to a cabin filter change and remote batteries, compared to additional brakes, tuneup and oil change costs on the much less used
gas vehicle. I really don't understand why people are so reluctant to save money.
[Edited on 5-11-2025 by JDCanuck]
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Cliffy
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | MTGoat: We looked at that here in Canada, and despite the much lower solar incidence it is being embraced somewhat by our neighbours. Still too long a
payback for me, better putting my cash in reducing transportation costs at present. Biggest negative is extremely high installation and permit costs
by the few approved installers.
Maybe if our utility costs were as high as yours it would come faster and the payback would arrive sooner?
We have done a cost comparison on our EV and so far it costs about 8 dollars in our hydro cost vs 70 in gas costs for an equivalent trip, and
maintenance amounts to a cabin filter change and remote batteries, compared to additional brakes, tuneup and oil change costs on the much less used
gas vehicle. I really don't understand why people are so reluctant to save money.
[Edited on 5-11-2025 by JDCanuck] |
Can't disagree that for SOME the EV car is a benefit. But not for everyone.
If my driving was confined to my local town I might also look at EV cars but for reasons NOT related to "climate change"
Still no one who is a proponent of " Green" has ventured any comments on the problems with "going green" that I have brought up over the interminable
time this thread has been alive.
Everyone just wants to put their head in the sand and say those questions are not there.
Take a stand and solve the issues I have brought up
Tell us YOUR solution to those problems
You are commenting on a world wide problem (in your own mind) but offering "evidence" on a micro scale.
If its climate change you are worried about quit talking local solutions (like Europe and roof tops). Europe changing won't do diddly damn on a world
wide scale of your concern. There's not enough roof tops in the world (where solar has a real chance of generating enough WHs) to make a real dent in
the power needed over the next quarter century worldwide.
You can't run big city air conditioning on solar and wind in any hot climate can you? Let alone everything else that uses "power".
You can't move freight with windmills
You can't drive 1,000 foot long ships with batteries
You can't fly around the world with windmills
You can't mine the worlds minerals without dino juice
People need to face the reality of physics on a world wide scale
Dino juice ain't going away any time soon.
You chose your position in life today by what YOU did yesterday
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JDCanuck
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Cliffy: You make a lot of assumptions there. There is very simple reasoning behind my wanting to support emerging technologies to replace the coal
fired thermal plants I began my career in. They are cheaper, cleaner and more efficient. The trips i talked of in my EV are 220 mile round trips and
we do them about once per week on average.
So we save about 87% in energy cost every time we make the round trip. The braking is 80% energy recovered (in the city i seldom use the brake pedal
to come to stops at red lights, almost never to slow to make turns) and the maintenance costs over all are much much cheaper as the motor is far less
expensive and simpler than the gas engine it replaces. Performance wise it accelerates about 30% faster than the gas vehicle. The batteries have a
250,000 mile usable life expectancy, about the same as a gas engine vehicle and are 95% recyclable. I am taking about a 6 year old design here. There
just isn't any downside and they keep improving, the latest from BYD can be recharged in only 5 min at the newest hi speed chargers due to their
battery design improvements.
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JDCanuck
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The coal fired plant I began my career in is gone...replaced by windmills producing power cheaper than it could and higher profits for the company
that ran it. The newer coal fired plants they built later have been upgraded to natural gas running at higher efficiencies, far less pollution overall
and producing about 40% the CO2 per unit of energy. CO2 recovery and utilization will lead to even more gains, both in costs and reduced CO2. It''s a
process we all benefit by.
[Edited on 5-12-2025 by JDCanuck]
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JDCanuck
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As for solar running air conditioning in a hot climate, that's exactly what we did on our 100% solar powered home in Baja. Being off grid, the cost to
install the solar was cheaper than the cost to run power in from CFE, altho it cost about 12% extra in the building cost initially. It also heated the
water for a 5 bedroom home, ran the fridges and freezer, ran the induction stove and had enough excess to have charged a small EV on 240v outlet. And
that was at costs well above what the equipment would cost now, 5 years later. The solar panels to provide that power occupied about 40% of our roof
space.
[Edited on 5-12-2025 by JDCanuck]
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