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CaboRon
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
you need to understand how thing work here in Mexico. when a public official dose something you don't think is right you don't announce it to the
world and try to embarrass them. right or wrong they can make you life miserable. I am sorry this happened to you but also I think you got off real
lucky, I would not publicly pursue this any longer. |
That's really a sad commentary, Bruce. Understanding how things work in Mexico is not the same thing as condoning and perpetuating it. Are you so in
love with Mexico that you recommend that people drop their pants, bend over and get punked by the Senior Ojeda's of the world?
I hope Sr. Ojeda is reading this post, el P-nche mamabicho. |
Congratulation to fulano for presenting the best post of this thread.
(edited by hose F)
CaboRon
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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And if you had lived here for as many years as Bruce & I have you would see things in a different light. THE END111111111111
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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bill erhardt
Super Nomad
Posts: 1376
Registered: 4-2-2005
Location: Loreto, BCS
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I thought that mine was pretty good, but perhaps a little subtle. I'm happy to concede to fulano's graphic imagery.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Yep, all fun n games Dennis. You'll drink to that I'm sure! |
Now...That wasn't very nice but, we'll let it slide.
Your methodology, as you put it? Allow me a question. Since white meat tuna has an uncanny flavor resemblence to chicken [I know, what doesn't],
would it be reasonable to assume that chicken could be mistaken for white meat tuna? Oh. That occured to you long ago, you say. Is white meat tuna
on your menu? Should I ask that question tomorrow?
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Fulano, some day I hope to see you flying high above us in one of those super hero suits. On this board a little chutzpah goes a long way when it
comes to inmigracion. When I think back on all the rediculous things each office comes up with to make it rough for those who simply want to qualify
to visit or stay I want to wave you like a banner -- no, a sword. When they come to get me for this post, can I use your attorney? Maybe you and I can
get Garegos if he's not too busy. Shame on you Brucie!
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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If you are living in Mexico it is because you were given that privilege by the Mexican Government and they can take it away with the swoosh of a pen.
Just save all your c-ckiness for your living in the states where they can't throw you out of the country.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Comitan, c-ckiness? What do you consider c-cky about speaking up against absurb treatment at times by some offices of inmigracion in Baja California?
Did you qualify and renew your visas at all the offices up and down the peninsula? Do you know what people have faced in cities other than yours
except for what you've heard about on this board? You don't need a spine to live down here. It's just much more comfortable sleeping with one.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: |
Should I ask that question tomorrow? |
Yes, but before noon please! Oh and sorry ol' pal, I had no idea you were not serious.
paz
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As far as Bruce goes, each to his own opinion/life. I doubt he has perpetuated anything and if he did, maybe it was to (your own benefit. He has
managed to live there many years WITH his postings on this now dangerous or shall I say , potentially dangerous forum.
Everyone needs a get out of jail free card. Do you have one??
edited for sp. & emoticon
[Edited on 6-1-2008 by Sharksbaja]
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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fulano
Banned
Posts: 496
Registered: 3-31-2008
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
If you are living in Mexico it is because you were given that privilege by the Mexican Government and they can take it away with the swoosh of a pen.
Just save all your c-ckiness for your living in the states where they can't throw you out of the country. |
You need to think through why you would live in a country where you have to leave your huevos with your mommy before you go down to see a government
official. Do you happen to remember why the Mexican Revolution was fought? Does this look the least bit familiar?
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado!
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Sorry guys I see a dusty, dirty road ahead, I'm not taking it.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Yes, but before noon please! Oh and sorry ol' pal, I had no idea you were not serious.
paz
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Graciously accepted. Thanks.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
You need to think through why you would live in a country where you have to leave your huevos with your mommy before you go down to see a government
official. Do you happen to remember why the Mexican Revolution was fought? Does this look the least bit familiar?
¡Prefiero morir de pie que vivir siempre arrodillado! |
No,Foolano, you need to think long and carefully why you bring your braggard and overbearing american value structure with you in such an overpowering
and overbearing manner. It is this very attitude of "let me fix what is wrong with these ignorant and childlike Mexican officials" when in fact we
are guests in their country and we need to humble ourselves a little and observe things until we start to understand the system from their eyes.
I have dealt with these people in immigration for quite some time and consider them to be professional, caring, attentive, and personable. Maybe we
can suggest to them that they allow you in as a "consultant" to show them the error of their ways and have you straighten out the running of their
office.
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Bruce R Leech
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6796
Registered: 9-20-2004
Location: Ensenada formerly Mulege
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Mood: A lot cooler than Mulege
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People that think it is OK and a smart thing to slander Mexican public officials on this forum really don't have a clue about Mexico
you notice that CasaManzana is not posting another thing here yet, I think he is smart enough that he learned something from his experience that some
of you have yet to learn.
[Edited on 6-1-2008 by Bruce R Leech]
Bruce R Leech
Ensenada
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
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Que viva el Señor Ismael Cosio Ojeais de la Oficina de Inmigración de Santa Rosalía. He is
“The Man” for contacting CasaManzana and resolving a potentially serious problem. My hat is off to him. Remember Señor Ojedais you
can come on this forum and state whatever you wish at anytime. Bienvenido. Oh, just remember to watch out for the Moderators identified as Hose A,
Hose B and Hose C, D, E, F, and G, respectively as they are some tough customers. (Broma) I can only surmise that CasaManzana is satisfied with the
outcome and has no reason to post anything further since he has Senor Ojedais’ e-mail address for any future problems that may arise.
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BajaNuts
Super Nomad
Posts: 1085
Registered: 5-11-2008
Location: eastern WA, the DRY side
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Mood: no worry, no hurry....it's all good!
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There are a select few jerks in every government office in every country, I'm thinking of my own county courhouse. However, if I'm having an issue
with someone at the office, if we can communicate fluently in the same language, I can usually resolve the problem.
As a guest in Mexico, why would anyone expect Mexican officials to cater to and patronize American's (and Canadian's) language deficiencies? You are
in their countlry and if you get in trouble because you can't communicate effectively, it's your own darn fault.
I'm making no judgement as to the right, wrong, or truth of the story as presented by the Senor. It's the self-rightous
"I'm-the-big-bad-american-and-everone-else-in-the-world-should-bow-down-to-me" attitude that I don't like. It gives the rest of the nice gringos a
bad rap.
Remember what country you're in. I would venture to guess that if CasaManzana's Spanish skills were fluent, the outcome would have been different.
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaNuts
There are a select few jerks in every government office in every country, I'm thinking of my own county courhouse. However, if I'm having an issue
with someone at the office, if we can communicate fluently in the same language, I can usually resolve the problem.
As a guest in Mexico, why would anyone expect Mexican officials to cater to and patronize American's (and Canadian's) language deficiencies? You are
in their countlry and if you get in trouble because you can't communicate effectively, it's your own darn fault.
I'm making no judgement as to the right, wrong, or truth of the story as presented by the Senor. It's the self-rightous
"I'm-the-big-bad-american-and-everone-else-in-the-world-should-bow-down-to-me" attitude that I don't like. It gives the rest of the nice gringos a
bad rap.
Remember what country you're in. I would venture to guess that if CasaManzana's Spanish skills were fluent, the outcome would have been different.
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Just an innocent question, do you pay a tip to the at the courthouse? What if he implied that you should? Would you? I thought ethics was a
universal language.
Just curious.
Zac
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fulano
Banned
Posts: 496
Registered: 3-31-2008
Location: Ramona, CA
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
No,Foolano, you need to think long and carefully why you bring your braggard and overbearing american value structure with you in such an overpowering
and overbearing manner. It is this very attitude of "let me fix what is wrong with these ignorant and childlike Mexican officials" when in fact we
are guests in their country and we need to humble ourselves a little and observe things until we start to understand the system from their eyes.
I have dealt with these people in immigration for quite some time and consider them to be professional, caring, attentive, and personable. Maybe we
can suggest to them that they allow you in as a "consultant" to show them the error of their ways and have you straighten out the running of their
office. |
I'm not bringing any American value system. I am not so naive as to think that I, or anybody else. can change the way Mexico is. I don't think Mexico
can be changed. I said before on this board, that I have a lot of latino in-laws and I have spend mucho tiempo in Mexico living with Mexicanos.
I am pointing out the obvious ironies in you guys who are "invested" in Mexico. You wax poetic about its virtues, how great it is, while at the same
time talking out of the other side of your mouth about how everybody should tolerate crap that you would never put up with in the US.
Mexico has a lot of good people in it -- salt-of-the-earth people. But it's still a very poor country and people struggle each day just to get by. Now
add to their misery the fact that they have to run thorugh a virtual gauntlet of sopelotes trying to pick the meat off their bones just to stay alive.
And you, you come on here and tell us how grateful we should all be because Mexico allows us in as guests while they hold us up by the ankles and
shake all the loose change out of our pockets.
[Edited on 6-1-2008 by fulano]
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fulano
Banned
Posts: 496
Registered: 3-31-2008
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bruce R Leech
People that think it is OK and a smart thing to slander Mexican public officials on this forum really don't have a clue about Mexico
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Actually, Bruce, it's libel. Slander is when you make an oral statement, libel is when you put it in print. It's easier in Spanish, where the word is
calumnia, which is understood to cover both written or spoken slurs.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Wow, I had missed this one. Popcorn anyone?
I recently processed a similar issue under the thread on that related to "different prices for different people". I hit a wall on that one and bounced
off again to regain my "go with the flow", "when in Rome...etc."
I must bear in mind that I am from another culture that was not conquered. I did not come from a culture in which the Cirque (sp?) held life and death
sway over the people, a nation where anyone who stood up would be mowed down, enslaved along with their entire family. I do not come from a country
where the Spanish came, conquered and did even worse things than the Cirques. I do not come from a country where the only people you could trust was
family and were your survival depended upon patronage and loyalty. I do not come from a country where government postions were awarded as political
patronage, though this practice does exist at higher levels of the government of the USofA i.e. Ambassadorships, Agency Administrative postitions etc.
This form of patronage simply has not filtered down to the level of the individaul beurocrat as it has in some other nations.
The cultural clashes exemplified in this thread are very real and the reason that most of us Nortes at some point "hit the wall". It may be over some
minor issue, i.e. being overcharged because of being a Norte, or it may be something like the situation that started this thread, but we all hit the
wall at times.
I appreciate the well thought out post of ELINVEST18 and the appreciation of the context exibited in the post.
Iflyfish
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Eugenio
Nomad
Posts: 206
Registered: 4-23-2008
Location: Navojoa, Son.
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The folks who are getting most worked up over the event weren't even there to witness it - or the subsequent meeting to resolve things. How about we
follow Casamanana's lead instead of putting him in the middle. He accepted the attempt at resolution and hasn't seen fit to bad mouth anyone.
When you've experienced something first hand then you can step up and run your cyber yap to your heart's content. Meanwhile let's show a little
repect to Casamanzana and the mexican official.
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