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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by ncampion
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Alas, when it is a choice between the life of people over fish... people win. |
Not so much anymore, just ask the farmers in Calif. central valley who got their irrigation water shut off because of some "endangered" fish.
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Yes, indeed... proves how screwed up things can get when the idiots are elected to power in government. |
if people want to grow crops in the desert they should do so without cost of causing species to go extinct. if people want to transport water to
desert, they should do so in a manner that does not cause environmental damage.
save the fish! tell the fat people to eat less!
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David K
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Yah, okay for people to be extinct... let the minnow live!
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Skeet/Loreto
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Loco; Sorry to inform you that you are 100% wrong!
There is some good information about the production costs of the Central Valley.
I start with about $6.00 per Acre Ft. and end up at the top of the Season at $30 to $40 per Acre Ft.
The Fresh Tomato Industry was captured by San Quintin BCS quite a few years back
Loco do you have any Idea at all about how much time material and Labor goes into the production of a Tomato, Gallon of Milk, Ear of Corn???? I think
not are you would appreciate the Thousands of Workers, that earn a fair living, the Truck drivers that deliver the goods, The Airplane pilots who fly
produce to other Countries, and a 100 others involved in this production.
Loco: Are you a Communist??
Skeet/Loreto
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Bajahowodd
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Rice
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
I guess you could make the same argument for the government subsidizing everything. I suspect that if farmers paid the true cost for water they would
not waste it growing crops like rice that could be grown more economically somewhere else. |
Yep. Rice demands a huge amount of water. And right now, there already is a large amount of rice coming here from Asia.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Yah, okay for people to be extinct... let the minnow live!
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homo sapiens is not facing risk of extinction. the fish is.
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toneart
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Don't y'all get your jockey shorts in a knot. It restricts your clear vision. Green is good! Conservation is good!
Over regulation and restriction beyond reason is bad. When that political ball gets rolling and gains momentum it is hard to stop. There has to be
regulation and restrictions, but within reason. Consequences need to be weighed and considered. There has to be a correct balance in order to keep the
farmers' land productive and food on our tables.
It is not easy to drive down the central valley and see so much brown. In my opinion, that is overkill, if it is to save a minnow. I belong to The
Sierra Club, but I do my own independent thinking.
So don't let the political rhetoric (Limbaugh, Fox News) put ideas in your heads and words in your mouths.
It seems that the water shortage is also caused by drought. San Diego has been under a permanent water restriction. Maybe more urban areas need to
also be rationed. People will waste water if they think nobody is looking. If you live in a desert, or a drought affected area, maybe a pretty lawn or
washing your vehicle in your driveway aren't good choices. There has to be a permanent change in mindset and lifestyle. Get used to it. It is going to
get worse.
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monoloco
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A 2004 EWG study found that large agribusiness, not small family farms were reaping a windfall from taxpayer subsidized cheap water. It also found
that 1 in 4 Central Valley Project farms received both water and crop subsidies for at least one year. The Federal Government has subsidized
California and Arizona farmers more than 700 million dollars in the last 2 years to grow thirsty crops like alfalfa, cotton and rice in arid regions.
Subsidies do more than promote wasteful water use. Cotton depends on vast quantities of pesticides, herbicides and fertilizer that eventually find
their way into streams and groundwater. Corporate welfare is counter-productive.
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Skeet/Loreto
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I am not sure where this"EWG" comes from. Who is this??
Now Loco one the costlist thing to the small and large farmers of the Central Valley is number !--Workmans Compension Scams-
next is the Costly things put on the Dairy farmers just to stay in business.
Check out how many Daires have moved to New Mexico and Texas due to Restrictions
Check it out.
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monoloco
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Skeet, EWG stands for the Environmental Working Group. The problem with farm subsidies are that they promote the interests of large corporate
agribusiness at the expense of small family farms. We get cheap produce at the market but there are the hidden costs of the subsidies and
environmental degradation that are borne by the taxpayer.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Loco; Sorry to inform you that you are 100% wrong!
There is some good information about the production costs of the Central Valley.
I start with about $6.00 per Acre Ft. and end up at the top of the Season at $30 to $40 per Acre Ft.
The Fresh Tomato Industry was captured by San Quintin BCS quite a few years back
Loco do you have any Idea at all about how much time material and Labor goes into the production of a Tomato, Gallon of Milk, Ear of Corn???? I think
not are you would appreciate the Thousands of Workers, that earn a fair living, the Truck drivers that deliver the goods, The Airplane pilots who fly
produce to other Countries, and a 100 others involved in this production.
Loco: Are you a Communist??
Skeet/Loreto |
Skeet, It sounds like you are the communist if you are advocating for federal farm subsidies.
I am for free market agricultural policies.
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Skeet/Loreto
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I am not much for subsides of any kind>
Hey Loco How did we get an Off Topic going on the General Discussion
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
I am not much for subsides of any kind>
Hey Loco How did we get an Off Topic going on the General Discussion |
Beats me, I didn't start it.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
It is not easy to drive down the central valley and see so much brown. In my opinion, that is overkill, if it is to save a minnow.
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In my opinion it is overkill to drive a fish to extinction just so some crazy humans can farm the desert and overeat so much that obesity is a
national epidemic. if god intended man to farm the desert he would have provided water to the desert
think global, act local!!!!!!!
yes we can!!!!!
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capn.sharky
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Registered: 9-4-2003
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Hey Guys! I started this thread about overfishing the Sea of Cortez. How did we get so hung up on the Central Valley? I care more about the
Cortez---I can get tomatos from San Quinten. All I am asking is that when you go fishing in the Cortez, take a small camera with you and shoot
anything you think is a violation of the Mexican law. Don't overfish and take only what you (or your Mexican neighbors) need. Leave something for
the next generations. Take a kid fishing with you and teach him how to fish. Be a good gringo and for God's sake, don't take a casket sized icechest
home with you from Mexico---unless Grandpop or Grandma is in it. Skeet---you can keep your land, I don't have an extra $500,000 laying around.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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Skeet/Loreto
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Cap Sharkey; I hate to tell you but the Global Warming Fraud is going to hurt all of the Enviormental Bull Puckey about the "Ruining of the Sea Of
Cortez".
Maybe I can get a Nibel Prize!!
Skeet
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Dave
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Chances are good
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Maybe I can get a Nibel Prize!!
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I'll campaign for you.
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luckyman
Junior Nomad
Posts: 60
Registered: 12-19-2007
Location: near chico, ca
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
One thing to remember about that irrigation water is that it is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers. The farmers in the central valley have made
millions thanks to the fact they have received water at a fraction of the true delivery costs. Another example of corporate welfare.
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federal water projects (storage and conveyance) have made california what it is today, for better or worse, including the incredible farming industry
we have.
this comment, as well as most of your subsequent posts on the subject, leads me to believe you are uninformed and left-biased on the subject of
farming today. perhaps you would enlighten us on how the average urban dweller might grow sufficient food and fiber to feed the family...start by
tearing up your driveway and buying a shovel and hoe.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by luckyman
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
One thing to remember about that irrigation water is that it is heavily subsidized by the taxpayers. The farmers in the central valley have made
millions thanks to the fact they have received water at a fraction of the true delivery costs. Another example of corporate welfare.
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federal water projects (storage and conveyance) have made california what it is today, for better or worse, including the incredible farming industry
we have.
this comment, as well as most of your subsequent posts on the subject, leads me to believe you are uninformed and left-biased on the subject of
farming today. perhaps you would enlighten us on how the average urban dweller might grow sufficient food and fiber to feed the family...start by
tearing up your driveway and buying a shovel and hoe. |
where did I suggest that the average urban dweller
could grow sufficient food to feed his family? How is it left biased to suggest that farmers pay the actual cost of water delivery? It is funny that
people who consider their selves to be conservatives are all for corporate welfare. The fact is that if the government, read taxpayer, didn't
subsidize agriculture, and people were forced to pay for the true costs of food production at the grocery store, we would have much more efficient
and sustainable system. We certainly would not be growing cotton and rice in the desert.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Sounds just like Mexico to me.
But where would we go for Food and Jobs--Canada???
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
Sounds just like Mexico to me.
But where would we go for Food and Jobs--Canada??? |
Skeet, I had an orchard in the Columbia Gorge I can tell you from personal experience how hard it is to compete with big subsidized agriculture. It is
the main reason for the decline of the family farm.
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