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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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Well, Wilderone probably summed up the answer to this dilemna and we should go get our fishing brothers, hold hands on the beach and sing numerous
verses of Kumbaya. When they finally see the light, I am sure they will revert to other ways of making a living.
The first pictures were taken of Ramon Ojeda and his son with another person who fishes with them frequently. Even his brother, who I know very
well, gets upset with the net fishing because it destroys fish that are not even targeted species, but Ramon has been doing this for a long time and
that is how he makes his living and feeds his family. For the most part the moralizing and talk of sustainability is just wasted thought process and
provides no practical solutions to the problem (unless one wants to learn 5 verses to Kumbaya in Spanish).
I live in the little town where these guys originate from and spend a lot of time with them. One of the little practical things that I have been
able to accomplish is to fish almost every day with Ramon's brother, Rigo, and help him catch enough fish with a line and hook to make a decent
living. From that small begining, we now see several other people who have joined in the coop that is owned by Rigo and his Father and we try to help
them cast the lead weights they need, buy good quality line in bulk from the US, strict usage of circle hooks so that the fish that do not make it to
the boat have a good chance of survival, and sharing information amongst ourselves as to what is working at any given time. In addition to this I
started teaching rodbuilding and reel repair to the group. Now we get questions from Ramon about the fact that his brother seems to be doing better
with a line and hook than he is able to do with the nets on a long term basis.
So I do not know what other practical and simple solutions are available but I am sure that there are small things that can be done and accomplish a
lot. What if, for example, 10 or 20 gringos who really wanted to change some things were to form some kind of company that could build magical
yellowtail lures or whatever.
Anyone that has spent any time down here knows that the political system is corrupt and does not get much accomplished in terms of changing
anything. But that is a given and something that does not lend itself to change, but if you take into account all of the given factors like families
that need to make a living, corrupt politicians, ineffective enforcement, dwindling sea life, and on and on, it seems to me that there must be some
thinkers out there who could do better than "Kumbaya".
Finally, the problem may take care of itself in very short order. There are places along the area from Santa Rosalia to Loreto that are in the
worst shape in terms of fish populations that I have ever seen. The loss is very apparent to divers that frequent the area as well as fishermen and
while a few big schools of yellowtail come through, the base populations of Cabrilla, Gold Spot Bass, and Grouper are the lowest I have ever seen them
and what I have observed is that when the guys are unable to catch anything after a couple of days, they sit around and wait for positive reports
before spending the gas to go out.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Listen when Pescador speaks. He's a fisherman and know what he's talking about
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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Well Russ’ frustration hasn’t been lost on me. I certainly know that those guys need to make a living but at the same I know they’re killing their own
future. And if you talk to any of them they know it too. But what needs to happen is that they need to all get together and discuss all of this
without outside manipulation. It just needs to get started. There are so many things that divide us in the fishing sectors especially now with these
elections and I’m hoping once the dust settles we can get started again. It just takes a few people to talk about what’s wrong and what’s right and
put their heads together to come up with viable solutions. All of us have good ideas all of us have different experiences all of us have made mistakes
and now it’s time for us to discuss them and learn from them. So no Russ this hasn’t been a waste of time you’re venting is completely understandable
but rest assured given time and patience we will gain control of our future again.
I’m also in a cooperative that works commercial fishing. I am trying to connect us directly with the buyers of our product, put the consumer directly
to our product as much as possible. from what I am seeing there is an enormous potential of variety of product, seasons, markets and methods of
extraction. I know it’s been tested and proven in other places that proper management of fisheries will allow for the highest output potential and
benefits to the local residents. What I think consumers can start doing to help is find out where your food comes from find out as much about the
things you consume as you possibly can because the more information you learn The more you’re spending can benefit those who produce it directly.
once the producers are benefiting directly from the fish of their labor their living standards will rise and they will find that they do not have to
extract as much in order to make the same amount of money. Of course legal boundaries and enforcement always helps too.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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There's always hope, but hope isn't a plan. There's no market for undersized triggerfish, they're probably feeding the fishermans family. Who's
paying for the fuel etc.?
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elfbrewery
Nomad
Posts: 348
Registered: 12-25-2006
Member Is Offline
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Economics always wins and that goes for all sides. It is a difficult problem. The future is now, though. If some areas, like Bahia Concepcion, could
really get protection to only sportsfishing,... but that's a pipe dream. What you see on your plate at the end of the day is what drives everyone.
However, what is going on over at Bahia Ascunsion with the conservation effort there? Is it working?? I know I would pay a significant percentage more
for my license if I knew the bay were protected. If the bay dies, nothing will attract other (desireable) fish. We'll also miss the dolphins, whales,
sea lions, ... Tourism will die, since many people come here to fish. Come to Baja and not get a fish taco??
Okay, I'll quit while I'm behind.
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BajaRat
Super Nomad
Posts: 1304
Registered: 3-2-2010
Location: SW Four Corners / Bahia Asuncion BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Ready for some salt water with my Tecate
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This is gonna need a montage
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Cardon Man
Super Nomad
Posts: 1319
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Thetis Bank
Member Is Offline
Mood: !Al Chingaso!
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Last year some friends of mine ( Mexican nationals ) swam out, navy seal style, and pulled a legally set gill net onto the beach. They made ill fated
attempts to release a number of still living roosterfish and destroyed the remaining net. While I would not have the huevos to do it...It was an act
of civil disobedience I applauded.
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
Member Is Offline
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Change is needed regardless of their jobs in the fisheries. The concept of fish till there's no more ......has arrived more or less already.
What will the fishermen do when the catches bottom out ? Forced regulation is the only answer. It's working on the western coast of the USA. Alaska
has regulations on their crabbing as for another example. Fact is....many countries are taking control of their fisheries.
Years ago, the Lumberjacks of the western coastal states were being shut down....due to international interest in saving the majestic Redwood trees.
Too late in the most part.....but the lumberjacks simple got into other fields of work. As far as the Mexican fisherman....I have a have a answer for
his long term employment. ......regulation.
Yeah....I know I am going to get a lot of crapola from my fellow Bn's here for my outlook.
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cardon Man
Last year some friends of mine ( Mexican nationals ) swam out, navy seal style, and pulled a legally set gill net onto the beach. They made ill fated
attempts to release a number of still living roosterfish and destroyed the remaining net. While I would not have the huevos to do it...It was an act
of civil disobedience I applauded. |
there a post a year or so ago where a Nomad just happened by a net that was stacked up on shore and someone had poured acetone on it.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Empty nets, empty fuel tanks, and empty pockets will be the deciding factor. No profit, no nets. From all indications, at least in the Mulege area,
it's reaching that point.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
there a post a year or so ago where a Nomad just happened by a net that was stacked up on shore and someone had poured acetone on it. |
I think that was one of Osprey's fantasy stories. It was a few years back and a good read at that.
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Doug/Vamonos
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 6-19-2006
Location: Bahia de los Angeles
Member Is Offline
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Do what YOU can do. Don't over-fish. Obey daily catch limits. Only keep what you can eat. NEVER order fish at a restaurant and NEVER buy fish at a
grocery store. I walked past the butcher case at Albertsons yesterday and I couldn't believe the amount of fish and shellfish in the display case.
Much of it didn't look too appealing and would probably be in the trash can a couple days later. Not to mention the frozen food section with tiny
fillets of mahi mahi and tuna from all over the Pacific and the smallest lobster tails I've ever seen, both Atlantic and Pacific. Tons of it. And that
is in my local grocery store. Probably duplicated in tens of thousands of grocery stores across the country every day. Just don't buy it and educate
others you know to do the same. If you want to eat fish go out and catch your own. And don't overfish in Baja so that you can bring home pounds of
fillets for your friends and neighbors. Easy for me because I can't catch fish anyways?!? End of lecture.
[Edited on 1-31-2011 by Doug/Vamonos]
[Edited on 1-31-2011 by Doug/Vamonos]
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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you had me until that next to last sentence. why do you think i bring the vacuum sealer? i get my limits and it freezes well, for up to 2-3 years. we
just ate the last sashimi yellewtail from 3 octobers ago and it tasted just like it came out of the water.
[Edited on 1-31-2011 by woody with a view]
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elfbrewery
Nomad
Posts: 348
Registered: 12-25-2006
Member Is Offline
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I'm thinking of conducting a straw poll here in our community along the Bahia Concepcion to see if people here would boycott, for a minimum of one
season, any seafood caught by net (fish, shrimp, swimming scallops) in the bay. I don't expect a majority vote for the boycott, but what percentage of
gringo boycotters do you think would make a significant impact?
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Everchangin'
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how do you propose catching a shrimp to stuff into my tortilla?
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elfbrewery
Nomad
Posts: 348
Registered: 12-25-2006
Member Is Offline
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Make sure they are caught in the open sea not where all life begins (La Bahia Concepcion)
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
Member Is Offline
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The answer to these issues....
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
Member Is Offline
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Global fish consumption hits record high
"The global consumption of fish has hit a record high, reaching an average of 17kg per person, a UN report has shown.
Fisheries and aquaculture supplied the world with about 145m tonnes in 2009, providing about 16% of the population's animal protein intake."
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12334859
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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GrOUper-GAr
Nomad
Posts: 107
Registered: 1-9-2010
Member Is Offline
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I AM a CAVEMaN...
There are always new Baja enthusiasts checking out these Nomad forums for the 1st time. And For many new baja travelers, the waters may still(even to
this day) appear to be busting/Golden with life.
(translate: the Sea has little worries).
In fact, a couple fisherman pulling a net on a remote Baja coast will often be romanticized, a rustic throw back to a simpler time. (unfortunatly,
even fishing in Italy can not be romanticized anymore)
Many of you guys(& Gals) are 'Hands on' baja lovers. You've been living or charging it in Baja for years. Even a Baja Jones'r like me, cant get
this daily Mar!NaTioN.
Russ, your photos & this ongoing discussion are not "whining about the Obvious". This Talk is informative, educational and necessary. "Obvious"
only to a lucky few (most people barely know of the Baja you Nomads cherish).
--Quick story--
in my youth, LaJolla was zig zag'd w/gill nets.
We measured EVERYTHING... for 8 years, i NEVER caught a yellowtail over 28 inches ! they literally stopped @ 27-1/2"(the sized we deemed that would
fit through the nets). Homeguard yellows in the 80's? never heard of such mumblings. White sea bass and Unicorns? totally thinned out. (yes, every
once in awhile a freak would find its way onto somebodys line, but you get the picture)
Now, I Don'T pretend to know the answer to this Cortez Banzai overfishing dilemma...
because, Like I said,
'I AM a CAVEMaN, the modern ways frighten & confuss me...'
But
"There is one thing I DO know...":
It took the People to get fired up,
the People to go to the polls,
and the PeoPLe to get rid of the gill nets in our back yard.
(Prop 132, 1990 ballot measure that bans the use of gill nets in Southern California coastal waters / passed 55% to 45%)
thanks for the photos.
-GrOUPer
! PrEFeRiR!A eSTaR eN baJa !
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Doug/Vamonos
Nomad
Posts: 418
Registered: 6-19-2006
Location: Bahia de los Angeles
Member Is Offline
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Russ: That's exactly my point. You can go to any town across the USA and probably find a sushi joint, or a seafood restaurant, or fresh/frozen seafood
at a grocery store. Historically that just didn't happen. You used to eat what is grown/harvested locally and in season. Now we get fresh seafood from
all around the world and the impact is that fisheries everywhere are being depleted because people stuff their faces with all-you-can-eat sushi for
$9.95. And I'm sure the expanding waistlines of our fellow countrymen will only make this situation worse.
And speaking of local fishing conditions since the removal of gill nets. Geez...I remember 20 years ago how rare it was to catch yellows on overnight
boats to Catalina. If they can control the nets in Baja the fish will return. Maybe some day.
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