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elfbrewery
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I just conducted a straw poll as to whether people would boycott any seafood netted in the Bahia Concepcion. The bahia is supposedly protected, but
shrimping and other uses of netting occur. The pescadores say they have permits to do all this stuff. Some folks here eat only what they catch
themselves, some don't eat seafood. That all aside, I asked my question to the folks on the beach in our community.
I must say I was happily surprised by the result. 35 people voted for the boycott, 5 voted against, 1 abstained. There could be errors in that people
didn't understand the question "Would you boycott (for at least one season, i.e., October to May) the purchase of any seafood NETTED in the Bahia
Concepcion?" I would have to rephrase it and say, "would you decline purchasing seafood (shrimp, fish, swimming scallops) that you knew was NETTED in
the bay?" I would ask that the participants not tell me their answers, but I would get, "*&^% no, I wouldn't buy any!" and similar responses, so I
don't know that the no's were really no's. But I was expecting a lot more of them than I received (no, I'd buy the seafood anyway, because ...).
Anyway, at least I can say that people here do not want netting to continue and are willing to not purchase the results of netting. Will this help
anyone who may be in a position to act on this info??
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mcfez
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Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elfbrewery
I just conducted a straw poll as to whether people would boycott any seafood netted in the Bahia Concepcion. The bahia is supposedly protected, but
shrimping and other uses of netting occur. The pescadores say they have permits to do all this stuff. Some folks here eat only what they catch
themselves, some don't eat seafood. That all aside, I asked my question to the folks on the beach in our community.
I must say I was happily surprised by the result. 35 people voted for the boycott, 5 voted against, 1 abstained. There could be errors in that people
didn't understand the question "Would you boycott (for at least one season, i.e., October to May) the purchase of any seafood NETTED in the Bahia
Concepcion?" I would have to rephrase it and say, "would you decline purchasing seafood (shrimp, fish, swimming scallops) that you knew was NETTED in
the bay?" I would ask that the participants not tell me their answers, but I would get, "*&^% no, I wouldn't buy any!" and similar responses, so I
don't know that the no's were really no's. But I was expecting a lot more of them than I received (no, I'd buy the seafood anyway, because ...).
Anyway, at least I can say that people here do not want netting to continue and are willing to not purchase the results of netting. Will this help
anyone who may be in a position to act on this info?? |
Thats good....but...
Will these folks really boycott when the time comes? Will that vacationing family not order shrimp?
We used to have a saying:
Put up or shut up.
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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elfbrewery
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I know what you're saying. I wonder about that, too. However, I think that because we have the right sentiment and the big majority of it that even
with a lot of slip ups, lies from vendors, etc. there would still be an impact.
As for vacationing families, I cannot speak for them. Most of the folks I asked are here for months.
Never-the-less, it would be nice to put together a plan, but is there a sympathetic ear in our area that has any pull?
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Pescador
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Russ, this is going to make your day. The following post came from David Jones who is a premier outfitter in La Paz.
pargon
Registered User
Name: david jones
Vessel: cabo 216, christina
Location: mexico
Job:sport fishing
Posts: 427 Images: 18
No More Nets?!
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I have just returned from a trip up the Pacific Coast to San Carlos, Lopez Mateo, and to my secret fishing hole. Talking with several different
friends along the way who are local commercial fishermen they all mentioned that there will be no more nets allowed federally in Mexico. They said
that they have been informed that as commercial licenses expire (all of them are of 2 year duration) no new licenses will be issued for net fishing.
Theoretically this means shrimp nets, gill nets, seines, all of them. while I'm sure that it will take awhile to get rid of them, and the locals who
don't have permits will take longer, this is a major step in the right direction. They said that they will still be allowed to net live bait for sport
fishing but nothing else. While the long liners still persist I applaud this apparent move by the feds, and eagerly await the results of this change
in a long time problem situation. I haven't been able to google anything about this, but is different commercial guys, 150 miles apart, are all saying
this it must have some substance. While they were a little nervous about the future of their income stream they were all quick to point out that it is
the right thing to do, and will help the fishery overall.
__________________
"The errors of the wise man make the rules for the fool"
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Cypress
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Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Pescador, Thanks. This news will make a lot of peoples day.
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Russ
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Location: Punta Chivato
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I'm in TOTAL shock! 
One of those, "I'll believe it when I see it", things. Please keep us informed as info comes your way.
Since the wind has died down to around 5 to 10 mph all but three barcos have gone into the bay to rape and pillage.
Here's two:
[Edited on 2-5-2011 by Russ]
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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mcfez
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Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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Pescador's note
Wow! That is good stuff to see happening.
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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Cypress
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Location: on the bayou
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The fishing is good in the Sea of Cortez, but the catching is not so good. The nets are already coming up empty, otherwise they'd continue. If
enforced, there'll be some happy fishermen in 5 or 6 yrs.
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
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Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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Controlled fishing works. Any doubts, read this:
http://195.97.36.231/acrobatfiles/MAPDocAcrobatfiles/SPA/EffectsFishingEng.pdf
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Russ, this is going to make your day. The following post came from David Jones who is a premier outfitter in La Paz.
pargon
Registered User
Name: david jones
Vessel: cabo 216, christina
Location: mexico
Job:sport fishing
Posts: 427 Images: 18
No More Nets?!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have just returned from a trip up the Pacific Coast to San Carlos, Lopez Mateo, and to my secret fishing hole. Talking with several different
friends along the way who are local commercial fishermen they all mentioned that there will be no more nets allowed federally in Mexico. They said
that they have been informed that as commercial licenses expire (all of them are of 2 year duration) no new licenses will be issued for net fishing.
Theoretically this means shrimp nets, gill nets, seines, all of them. while I'm sure that it will take awhile to get rid of them, and the locals who
don't have permits will take longer, this is a major step in the right direction. They said that they will still be allowed to net live bait for sport
fishing but nothing else. While the long liners still persist I applaud this apparent move by the feds, and eagerly await the results of this change
in a long time problem situation. I haven't been able to google anything about this, but is different commercial guys, 150 miles apart, are all saying
this it must have some substance. While they were a little nervous about the future of their income stream they were all quick to point out that it is
the right thing to do, and will help the fishery overall.
__________________
"The errors of the wise man make the rules for the fool" |
a few years ago underwater spear fishing with compressors became illegal but they still do it right under our noses and our complaints go unheard.
on the net banning I'll believe it when I see it
I have a sinking feeling that netting permits will continue but they will be monopolized by large entities and the local guys will be out of the loop.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
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Location: on the bayou
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| Quote: | Originally posted by flyfishinPam
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Russ, this is going to make your day. The following post came from David Jones who is a premier outfitter in La Paz.
pargon
Registered User
Name: david jones
Vessel: cabo 216, christina
Location: mexico
Job:sport fishing
Posts: 427 Images: 18
No More Nets?!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------on the net banning I'll believe it when I see it
I have a sinking feeling that netting permits will continue but they will be monopolized by large entities and the local guys will be out of the loop.
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Probably so. |
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Joelt
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I don't know what they could do but I would think that the local fishermen around Russ would try to do something about the non local comercial boats.
They come in and don't leave until they have taken everything. I find this more disturbing than the local guys using nets.
Joelt
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Cypress
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Location: on the bayou
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The visiting shrimpers are the least destructive. Trawling speed, net structure, and lead/chain lines set-up can make a big difference. Slow trawling
produces less of a pressure wave, catches more shrimp and fewer fish. Turtle excluder devices allow turtles to escape. The local gill nets fished
24/7, 12 months of the year and the seine boats are the real culprits.
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msteve1014
Senior Nomad
Posts: 947
Registered: 12-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
| Quote: | Originally posted by flyfishinPam
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Russ, this is going to make your day. The following post came from David Jones who is a premier outfitter in La Paz.
pargon
Registered User
Name: david jones
Vessel: cabo 216, christina
Location: mexico
Job:sport fishing
Posts: 427 Images: 18
No More Nets?!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------on the net banning I'll believe it when I see it
I have a sinking feeling that netting permits will continue but they will be monopolized by large entities and the local guys will be out of the loop.
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Probably so. |
And the local guys will keep netting, legal or not. They need the food and money. What else can they do? |
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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I do not think for a minute that the non-issuance of permits will have much of an effect, except that there seems to be a small movement underfoot
that might be capitalized on. Instead of sitting around wringing hands and crying in the beer, there seems to be some tendency toward shutting down
at least some of the netting which is where this discussion started. The East Cape has been very effective in ridding themselves of Gill and hand set
seines because the commercial skippers started to take things in their own hands and they knew they could not call up the "Game Warden" to enforce the
law. The Marine Park in Loreto seems to be making some headway with their enforcement.
I doubt that any of the local guys in the Santa Roslia area even know what a permit is so you are right that it might not have much of an influence,
but look how long it took for the locals to change enough to the point that most of them avoid turtles that they come across in the open water.
So, if everyone watches the developments and does their little creative part, there is at least some hope that change might happen. The most
destructive type of netting I have ever witnessed down here is during the spring when the yellowtail are trying to get closer to shore to lay eggs and
the netters have learned how to surround them when they come close and then they put divers overboard to move the nets over the rocks until everything
is tied in a small area. The year before last I witnessed hundreds of tons of yellowtail captured in this manner. Last year, because of the water
temps this spring capture never really developed. This year we have so few yellowtail showing up, that I suspect that it may miss again this year.
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elfbrewery
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Pescador,
I have questions about the pangeros who gill net fish. Do they have quotas and limits? Are they supposed to fish only for their families or may they
sell to local restaurants or to the fish market (trucks)? What is the understanding as to their behavior? Is it legal? Should we help them or hinder
them?
I'm just a confused, frustrated kayak fisher waiting for the fish to come back.
Thanks.
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woody with a view
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prolly part of the cooperativo. they keep what they want for themselves and sell the rest to the market-maker cooperativo. not anything wrong with it
as i see it, at least where we go. i have a different opinion of taking every last fish when you make a set, though.
10 years ago or more now, we watched over the course of a few days some guys proceed to fill gunney sacks with abalone. right down to the ones that
were the diameter of a beer can. they seemed to want to take everything. the local boys showed up too late and said that these guys came from the
mainland. that they were coyotes....
there needs to be a better way...
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elfbrewery
Pescador,
I have questions about the pangeros who gill net fish. Do they have quotas and limits? Are they supposed to fish only for their families or may they
sell to local restaurants or to the fish market (trucks)? What is the understanding as to their behavior? Is it legal? Should we help them or hinder
them?
I'm just a confused, frustrated kayak fisher waiting for the fish to come back.
Thanks. |
Shari or someone from Asuncion has a better picture of what goes on at Asuncion and the other side of the sea. It is a different picture over there
altogether and the cooperatives are really trying to manage the resources. During the right times of the year, the sportfishing is very good and
probably improving a little every year. Because the sportfishing is so strong on the East Cape and Cabos areas, they are controlling the nets in a
much more effective manner.
In the Santa Rosalia area, there is very little control, with some small amounts of cooperatives, which means, as Russ pointed out, that they get
some help from the government with buying motors, boats, and equipment like nets. The cooperative members sell their fish to one of the wholesale
buyers who issue them a factura. A certain percentage goes to the fisheries or Conapesca, and the wholesale buyer usually has fronted gasoline so
that expense comes out too ( which is like buying your gas from the company store). So, it is pretty much up to the individual fisherman whether he
uses nets or hook and line. And that means no limit on catch except for market forces. When the yellowtail were close to the island two years ago
and very plentiful, the market dropped to 5 or 6 pesos per kilo, which meant a good net fisherman might make $2500 Pesos before expenses of gasoline,
boat expense, net care and expense, other fishermen in the boat, etc., etc.
The situation on the Sea of Cortez side is pretty bleak from the standpoint that you have too many hands in the pot. We get commercial netters and
seiners from the mainland that harvest most of the baitfish like sardines and mackeral, Shrimpers who drag chain nets all over the bottom and leave a
wake of dead ocean when they pull the nets, local gill and seine nets that kill massive amounts of spawning yellowtail along with sierra and corvina,
and anybody with a boat who has a handline and a few hooks that brings in anything that is marketable. And of course, we get a few pistoleros who go
out at night with compressors and lights who kill everything available at night when the fish are most vulnerable.
This year has been, overall, a terrible year for yellowtail in our area and the squid did not show at all, so the fishermen are not out everyday
because they can not afford to just burn up the gas like their gringo counterparts. At this point I truly do not know if it is just the year or if we
have finally reached the critical point in populations and only time will tell since the yellowtail populations show remarkable elasticity in
recovering if given half a chance.
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Russ
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After reading Jim's report above I'm hoping perhaps the lack of fish may regulate the commercial interest. I think as the fishing pressure decreases
the stocks may start a recovery and if regulations are put in place and enforced the fisheries will make a rebound.
The sad part of all this is when you see the huge number of pangas in this area (Mulege to Santa Rosalia) and imagine that each boat supports a family
or two. When the squid industry was booming here it brought hundreds of fishermen from all over Baja and the mainland and they have made their home
here now. What will they do? There really isn't anywhere for them to go or work they can transition into. If you had to feed your family would you
turn to an illegal opportunity to make a few pesos to put some food on the table ( prob don't even have a table)?
It is a very hard time here now and my heart goes out to those in need of work. I moved down here because I really admire the Mexican people and their
culture, friendly, hardworking folks that will give a stranger the shirt off their back and ask nothing in return. I don't have any idea how things
will come out during the next few years as changes come about.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
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Location: Baja California Sur
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Russ, the mine seems to be changing a lot of things, in our town at least, as quite a few people, fishermen included, have gone to work at Boleo Mine
and for the fortunate ones that may mean a regular paycheck for the next 10 years or so. Certainly the guys who work at the mine at San Marcos Island
have enjoyed a pretty good lifestyle for a number of years.
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