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CortezBlue
Super Nomad
Posts: 2213
Registered: 11-14-2006
Location: Fenix/San Phelipe
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These type of posts remind me of playing Post Office as a kid.
I have no doubts that there was some sort of stop and folks were searched, but I am sure by the time it gets to this post it has been changed up and
inflated to be a bit more dramatic.
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sanquintinsince73
Super Nomad
Posts: 1498
Registered: 6-8-2010
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by RonnieRockCod
Apparently some of you folks think that searching purses and empting pockets at Baja checkpoints constitutes a police state. What then, would you call
a country that requires airline passengers to remove their shoes, including children wearing rubber thongs, patting down Nuns wearing habit,
disasemblance of a wheelchair of a handicap person, subjecting women to a physical pat ( read that "rub") down and others to X-ray type body scans
and even a search through the diaper of a nine month old child ?
I ask that those of you who live in Baja that objects to purse and pocket searches and feel they are unreasonable and indicative of a "police
state" why on earth do you live there? Good luck to all. RRC. |
Best point made so far.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65365
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Online
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by RonnieRockCod
I ask that those of you who live in Baja that objects to purse and pocket searches and feel they are unreasonable and indicative of a "police
state" why on earth do you live there? Good luck to all. RRC. |
From my point of view, the purse and pocket searches would be more reasonable if the rest of the drug interdiction effort was as efficient, but it
isn't. A treacherous collusion between factions of the government and the cartels has produced a war that can only be resolved by stalemate. In
other words, the people lose, and for that reason, I find it hard to accept that the government will divert attention from their failure to little
chickensht efforts, such as purse searches, to give an illusion of the good fight in progress.
I'm to the point now that I simply don't care who grows what and sells it to whom. There's nothing my indignation will do except to stress me out, so
if the authorities can't control it, the market will.
Now....or soon....the US government and the Mexican government can sit down at a table and say to each other, "We did it to ourselves. We have
succeeded in ushering in the moral decay of two great societies which trusted us with their well-being."
They should be sooo proud.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by RonnieRockCod
I ask that those of you who live in Baja that objects to purse and pocket searches and feel they are unreasonable and indicative of a "police
state" why on earth do you live there? Good luck to all. RRC. |
From my point of view, the purse and pocket searches would be more reasonable if the rest of the drug interdiction effort was as efficient, but it
isn't. A treacherous collusion between factions of the government and the cartels has produced a war that can only be resolved by stalemate. In
other words, the people lose, and for that reason, I find it hard to accept that the government will divert attention from their failure to little
chickensht efforts, such as purse searches, to give an illusion of the good fight in progress.
I'm to the point now that I simply don't care who grows what and sells it to whom. There's nothing my indignation will do except to stress me out, so
if the authorities can't control it, the market will.
Now....or soon....the US government and the Mexican government can sit down at a table and say to each other, "We did it to ourselves. We have
succeeded in ushering in the moral decay of two great societies which trusted us with their well-being."
They should be sooo proud.
. |
Touche...
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Want to fish!!!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by RonnieRockCod
I ask that those of you who live in Baja that objects to purse and pocket searches and feel they are unreasonable and indicative of a "police
state" why on earth do you live there? Good luck to all. RRC. |
From my point of view, the purse and pocket searches would be more reasonable if the rest of the drug interdiction effort was as efficient, but it
isn't. A treacherous collusion between factions of the government and the cartels has produced a war that can only be resolved by stalemate. In
other words, the people lose, and for that reason, I find it hard to accept that the government will divert attention from their failure to little
chickensht efforts, such as purse searches, to give an illusion of the good fight in progress.
I'm to the point now that I simply don't care who grows what and sells it to whom. There's nothing my indignation will do except to stress me out, so
if the authorities can't control it, the market will.
Now....or soon....the US government and the Mexican government can sit down at a table and say to each other, "We did it to ourselves. We have
succeeded in ushering in the moral decay of two great societies which trusted us with their well-being."
They should be sooo proud.
. |
I agree whole-heartedly Dennis! Starting to look like a death spiral. Though, if the petty searches keep even a little of the dope away from kids and
schools, keep it up! A day will come when the war on drugs truly begins. I just hope I'm still alive to see it happen.
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3601
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Here, here. Moral decay? Death spiral? How about some perspective folks? Some tourist gets nervous with the military having a weapon,
another gets nervous about a purse search. Guess these folks haven't been through airport security since 911. I've wondered for years why
checkpoints don't search purses, and have people empty their pockets. Is this an outrage in Baja because it isn't a common procedure?
My impression of checkpoints: troops are looking for large amounts of drugs -- or a roach in the ashtray. Or a gun. They're bored and tired. I
think tourists are recognized as tourists. Sometimes I encounter a slight authoritative attitude but mostly professional men doing their job.
Can't speak to what happened in Los Barriles but purse searches and empty pockets do happen in Baja -- along with opportunistic cops wanting to
supplement their minimum wage incomes. I don't think the military are opportunistic.
Nothing in this thread demonstrates a pandemic of corruption against gringoes. If searches are less than professional from time to time, that's
luck of the draw. It's just not a big deal.
Probably close to 100% of people I know who know I'm in Baja ask me: is it safe? Aren't you scared?
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krafty
Super Nomad
Posts: 1052
Registered: 8-23-2010
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Unless you have something to hide, NONE of this should be an issue
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Perhaps if the US was out there running their hands through peoples pockets for no apparent reason, the consummer end of the issue would be different.
And....that "airport" reasoning is pure BS. Without getting into the over-zealous aspect of the searches, there is the airplane to consider. [no
reminders necessary]
Ya see....as I've said here a million times before, if we would do some alterations on the Bill of Rights, much of this nonsense would never be
happening.
.
[Edited on 10-27-2011 by DENNIS]
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
some alterations on the Bill of Rights, much of this nonsense would never be happening.[Edited on 10-27-2011 by DENNIS] |
What changes would be helpful (NOT trying to be a smart a**) ?
Don't believe everything you think....
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
What changes would be helpful (NOT trying to be a smart a**) ?
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They could start by redefining "illegal search and seizure."
They could move on by curtailing rights for criminals.
They could consider looking into plea bargains as justice served.
Then...they could ban the ACLU or send them all up to Canada.
After all that, life will begin to be good for the good. 
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Ohhhh yeah....forgot to say, that's just my very humble opinion.
Thanks for listening.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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For starters, anyone with a felony conviction, especially drug related offenses, has NO search and seizure rights!!!!
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
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Mood: Optimistic
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Personal searches, you say?
Sometimes...after a long and lonely drive on the Baja Road...it's nice to have some attention.
But..there's attention..and then there's ATTENTION.
As mi amigo, John, is saying here:
"Oof-Da! Senor, can't you get a nice senorita with warm, soft hands to do this?"
p.s. dont' sweat the small stuff...it's a far different world.
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
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Looks like the air strip by San Bruno/Mulege. Great photo Pompano!!!!
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
What changes would be helpful (NOT trying to be a smart a**) ?
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They could start by redefining "illegal search and seizure."
They could move on by curtailing rights for criminals.
They could consider looking into plea bargains as justice served.
Then...they could ban the ACLU or send them all up to Canada.
After all that, life will begin to be good for the good.
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ACLU: National organization advocating individual rights...
Okay, now I am really confused
I thought that this whole "Rights" business was a mainstay of US citizenry discussions. Are you suggesting that folks should have fewer rights and
that lawyers and such ilk are creating problems? Or are you suggesting we need to have more advocates for "Our Rights" up here in the balmy provinces
of Canada?
Don't believe everything you think....
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
Member Is Offline
Mood: Optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabass
Looks like the air strip by San Bruno/Mulege. Great photo Pompano!!!!
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Close, but no cigar, bajabass...it's the Loreto airport, circa 1980's. Things looked quite different back then. 
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
I thought that this whole "Rights" business was a mainstay of US citizenry discussions. Are you suggesting that folks should have fewer rights and
that lawyers and such ilk are creating problems?
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Not 'folks." Criminals. Our Bill of Rights has too often been a "get out of jail free card." Liberal lawyers practice the fine art of civil
liberties interpretation and, in many cases, are responsible for justice denied only because someone forgot to wipe a prisoners butt at the alloted
time.
OK....I'm done taking your bait. I think you know exactly what I mean.
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3601
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Not sure where any discussion about US Bill of Rights is going regarding MX military searches.
Baja is under Napoleonic law and non-Mexicans have limited rights. The extent and detail of military searches are at the discretion of the senior
ranking officer in charge at the scene. (Napoleonic meaning you are guilty until you prove otherwise -- or have money.)
That probably angers some gringoes.
The military are made up of humans. Some wake up cranky. They deserve some slack.
White, privileged gringoes -- those with the sense of entitlement attitude -- have the most trouble with this scenario.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Perhaps if the US was out there running their hands through peoples pockets for no apparent reason, the consummer end of the issue would be different.
And....that "airport" reasoning is pure BS. Without getting into the over-zealous aspect of the searches, there is the airplane to consider. [no
reminders necessary]
Ya see....as I've said here a million times before, if we would do some alterations on the Bill of Rights, much of this nonsense would never be
happening..
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I think it started right about here, Lee.
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