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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
very few of us don't enjoy drugs (smoking, alcohol, etc.).
our brains are succeptible to addiction.
govt dollars are wasted fighting drugs.
better use of dollars would be to develop drugs that satisfy peoples brains, but are acceptable to society.
perhaps govt should develop and hand out free drugs as long as that makes people functional and eliminates drug-related crime.
need to spend govt dollars wisely, and in a way that acknowledges people will do what people do, perpetual war is stupid |
Sweet! Free drugs to go with our guaranteed incomes. Where do I sign up?
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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DanO
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Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
very few of us don't enjoy drugs (smoking, alcohol, etc.).
our brains are succeptible to addiction.
govt dollars are wasted fighting drugs.
better use of dollars would be to develop drugs that satisfy peoples brains, but are acceptable to society.
perhaps govt should develop and hand out free drugs as long as that makes people functional and eliminates drug-related crime.
need to spend govt dollars wisely, and in a way that acknowledges people will do what people do, perpetual war is stupid |
Sweet! Free drugs to go with our guaranteed incomes. Where do I sign up? |
Sounds like Soma in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World. I'd be careful with that.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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BajaBlanca
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Bajaluna. Do you have any material specifically for kids? Since I teach in the local middle school, I could easily pass the information on.
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805gregg
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Location: Ojai, Ca
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| Quote: | Originally posted by 55steve
Meth seems to be taking a toll on the youth in Bahia de Los Angeles. |
There is no meth problem in BOLA, just as Woody, he called me a marooon for suggesting it, glad to see you are backing me up
[Edited on 11-20-2013 by 805gregg]
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Whale-ista
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Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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1 suggestion:Treat drug/alcohol addiction as an illness, not a crime
US prisons have become the default holding/treatment centers for drug and alcohol addiction. The majority of inmates are imprisoned for crimes related
to drug and alcohol abuse, both use and commerce.
Unfortunately prisons are not ideal places for people to get healthy and manage addictions. They may come out clean, but the cravings remain. They
are likely to relapse back to addictive behavior, and return to prison.
The average cost of a prisoner in California is $50,000 per year. Older, sicker inmates cost more because of needing more health care. The only thing
more expensive than healthcare In general is health care under 24 hour armed guards, for people who often have pre-existing illnesses from drug and
alcohol abuse.
If the justice system treated these offenses as illnesses instead of crimes taxpayers would save billions of dollars in incarceration costs.
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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BajaLuna
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perfectly said, whale-ista. That is spot on 100% as to how I see things too.
But now of course here's a whole other layer to that.....with more and more prisons becoming privately owned IE: prisons for profit, I'm afraid
changing the system from drugs/addiction being seen as an illness by the courts instead of as criminals is a far far away thing now. There's going to
be more profit incentive to incarceration. UGH!
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BajaLuna
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Blanca, if I come across some I will grab them!
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joerover
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many of us have seen them without knowing
the fat lady is breeding
which means
The fat ladys are breeding
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joerover
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EL DURAZNO, Mexico — Mexico's heroin industry has had a bullish few years, and for traffickers the outlook is as uplifting as the scarlet, orange and
yellow poppy flowers from which the narcotic is processed.
What was once a problem largely confined to hubs in California and Texas, Mexican traffickers have expanded into the Midwest and the Atlantic
Seaboard, narcotics experts say.
Using savvy marketing tactics, they've also repositioned heroin commercially, revamping its image from the inner-city drug of yore, with its junkies
and needles, into a narcotic that can be snorted or smoked, appealing to suburban and even rural high school youth.
A coincidental factor has given the drug gangs a tail wind: The epidemic abuse of painkillers has ebbed in the United States, and youth now hunger for
a cheaper high.
"We've heard around the country of changes away from prescription drugs, because they are either more expensive or more difficult to obtain, and a
movement toward heroin, which is less costly," said Gil Kerlikowske, a former Seattle police chief who's the White House drug czar.
The U.S. State Department said in March that Mexico has surpassed Myanmar as the world's second largest poppy cultivator and produces 7 percent of the
world's heroin, mostly for the U.S. market. The State Department and the United Nations say that Mexican poppy production has nearly tripled since
2007, though Mexico strongly disputes that estimate.
What's indisputable is that drug syndicates that produce black tar and brown heroin in Mexico's Sierra Madre mountains are pushing aggressively into
areas where they haven't been active before.
Teenagers in Albuquerque, N.M., Milwaukie, Ore., Fenton, Mich., Troy, Ill., La Porte, Ind., and Mentor, Ohio, have died from apparent heroin overdoses
in the past nine months. Law enforcement officials warn that heroin has gained a foothold in suburban Atlanta and is the fastest-growing drug in
northern Ohio. Prosecutors indicted 20 people in Toledo on May 10 on charges of conspiring to bring Mexican heroin to the city.
A police detective told Charlotte, N.C., council members this week that the city ranks No. 5 among U.S. cities in black tar heroin use.
"You've had a couple of selected cartels move forward very aggressively into the Eastern United States," said Dave Gaddis, a former chief of
operations for the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration who left the DEA in April and now heads a security consulting firm, G-Global Protection
Solutions.
Even in the Western United States, where Mexican heroin has been present for decades, law enforcement officials say they're seeing more of it than
ever before.
"The heroin numbers have skyrocketed," said William Ruzzamenti, a former federal anti-narcotics agent who now heads a federally funded regional drug
task force in California's Central Valley. "Just in our little area, we've already surpassed all seizures from last year, and we're not even to July
yet."
At about $15 a hit, heroin is a lot cheaper than prescription painkillers such as oxycodone (known by its brand name, OxyContin), which can cost $50
to $80 a tablet on the black market. Both opiates, they have similar highs.
The U.S. government once was enthusiastic about bringing poppy to Mexico. During World War II, it encouraged Mexico to plant the opiate-producing
flowering plant to ease a shortage of morphine for wounded U.S. soldiers.
Afterward, the poppy stayed in the Sierra Madres of western Mexico. It now stretches from the mountainous junction of Sinaloa, Chihuahua and Durango
states in the north down into Nayarit, Michoacan, Guerrero and Oaxaca states.
For decades, less-refined Mexican heroin was a poor cousin to white Asian heroin, and later Colombian heroin. Mexico's black tar heroin gets its name
from its dark color and gooey consistency, caused by less-exacting processing. By the 1990s, Mexican traffickers saw opportunity passing them by and
took action to catch up.
"They brought in experts, chemists, folks from Asia who taught them how to produce better heroin," said a U.S. law enforcement official based in
Mexico City, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity for security reasons. "You saw purity levels climb from 40 to 50 percent up to 90 percent."
He said Mexican heroin now might hold two-thirds of the U.S. market.
"You're seeing it everywhere. It's cheap. The market base is teenagers. They are the target consumers," the official said.
Poppy grows best in warm, temperate climates with low humidity. In Colombia and Mexico, it's cultivated on steep mountain slopes. Poppy fields need
irrigation, yet a heavy rainstorm can wipe them out.
"The less sun that hits the poppy plant, the better," said Col. Dante Castillo Calleja, a Mexican army officer who escorted a reporter and a
photographer deep into the mountains of Guerrero state to observe soldiers eradicating poppy fields.
Hovering at the edge of a sloping field shrouded in late-afternoon mist, Castillo plucked a poppy to demonstrate the walnut-sized seedpod that
contains the latex precious to narcotics traffickers.
"You need a delicate hand to do this," he said, demonstrating how poppy farmers score the seedpods with light incisions, returning after a few hours
to wipe away the latex that oozes out. "They often use children to make the incisions. Also women."
Soldiers whacked the brittle poppy stalks with sticks, knocking them flat, while others used machetes to destroy hoses set up as an impromptu
irrigation system from a nearby stream.
Guerrero state, which is perhaps best known for the tourist beach resort Acapulco, has among the densest concentration of poppy in Mexico, and the
prosperity of the drug trade is evident. Even along remote dirt roads, most houses have satellite dishes on their roofs and recreational all-terrain
vehicles parked out front. Farmers ride the vehicles to poppy fields deep in the mountains.
"The peasant farmers get ahead but those who really profit are the middlemen and the owners of the labs," Castillo said.
Despite a broad military presence in the region, the army hasn't destroyed any of the simple field laboratories that can turn the latex gum first into
opium, then morphine and finally heroin.
"We haven't found a single laboratory," said Brig. Gen. Benito Medina Herrera, the top military officer in this western region of Guerrero. Asked
where the laboratories were, he said: "In Cuernavaca, in the capital, in the United States."
No matter where the heroin labs are, smugglers who take the narcotic across the United States are growing bolder in their tactics. Smuggling vehicles
sometimes work in tandem with decoy trailing vehicles, Ruzzamenti said.
When police spot a suspicious car, "the trail vehicles will intercede to get the police to go after them. They'll ram the police car or race by it at
100 miles an hour," he said. "We've even had them shoot at the police."
MORE FROM MCCLATCHY
Mexican drug gangs building own tanks as war intensifies
Drug gangs muscle into new territory: Central America
Cocaine lab found in Honduras signals big shift in drug business
Overrun by narcos, once-posh Acapulco is in agony
Mexico's drug war leaves marijuana growers to thrive
Check out this McClatchy blog: Mexico Unmasked
McClatchy Newspapers 2011
Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/06/29/116739/as-poppy-fields...
the fat lady is breeding
which means
The fat ladys are breeding
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BajaLuna
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WOW! something like 70% now is coming from Mexico not through Mexico.
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mtgoat666
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I'll stick to alcohol and pot! Harmless fun, in moderation.
Whatever happened to Ecstacy and LSD? Still popular?
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BajaLuna
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LSD, I think I have a few brain cells left from the 70's, LOL!
Speaking of the 60's and 70's...somehow I think times have really changed. After Janis OD'd, and many of us lost friends in school to shooting up
heroin, I lost 2 friends myself to heroin in the 70's, and many of our rock idols were strung out, or some of us had brothers who were drafted and
came back hooked...most of us knew one time and we'd be pretty much feeding the monkey from then on, it was just pretty much a given. Most not all,
stayed away from it because we knew it was that bad. Everything else was popular for a lack of a better word, lots of others were doing everything BUT
heroin, now here it is an epidemic and kids just don't get it, the seriousness of it. Of course some were pretty fried on LSD too, but heroin was
always the one to stay away from for most of us who were big partiers back in the day.
I'm not dissing the ones who didn't stay away from it or saying they were weak in some way....and God Bless Janis, man I still never go on a road trip
without her CD,....but just wondering what's changed, heroin still kills, heroin still is a bad thing, heroin still wrecks lives. Steven Tyler of
Aerosmith in an interview he did recently says he still craves it and isn't sure he will never go back to it and still fights it every day. Of course
no addict can be sure, its one day at a time eh, but wow it is a powerful opiate when it gets it's hold on you.
A lot of damn good music came out of the heroin era back in the day though.
never hear about LSD anymore, Ecstacy is still around.
yeah I hear ya mulegemichael, heroin puts families through HELL and back! But they CAN come out the other side!
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jeans
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| Quote: | Originally posted by joerover
an alcoholic is the only thing I can think of worse than herion
| Quote: |
After working in Recovery houses and being around addicts and drunks my personal observation is. A alcoholic maintains some degree of self respect
whereas a addict will sell his soul for another fix. |
[Edited on 11-19-2013 by joerover] |
I had someone tell once, "I'm not an alcoholic...I'm a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings."
Mom always told me to be different - Now she says...Not THAT different
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monoloco
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Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaLuna
Ok Monoloco, you got me, what is a chukero? Google doesn't seem to recognize it??? It has a definition for chucero, which means "pikeman", military.
Is it a cut of meat, like a chuck roast? A person who chucks things? Guys named chuck? A cute little woodchuck? hahahaha, somehow I don't think it is
any of these!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Down here they call meth "chuki" because the users, who are referred to as
"chukeros" resemble the character "Chuckie" in the horror movie with the same name. They also sometimes refer to them as "foceros" because they use
light bulbs (focos) as pipes to smoke their meth in. Before most people switched to compact fluorescents, folks in town would unscrew their lightbulbs
and bring them in at night to keep the foceros from stealing them.
[Edited on 11-20-2013 by monoloco]
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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captkw
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baja luna
LOL...LSD was a total different drug than whats out there today.....BTW are you really still using "google" ???? you must be joking....NO????
my best friend works at the local high school and just showed me some pics about a new drug called "krocadill"....OMG....sick,,,,sick !!!
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Bajatripper
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This is the subject that I'm now studying (Chemical Dependency Professional). While I don't have any info for this addiction in Baja, I can say it is
a huge problem up here in Washington. As part of my studies, I recently attended a meeting of parents of (adult) addicts. 13 of 13 people were there
for kids hooked on heroin.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
A very good Post on Addiction.
The Big Question?
What do we as a Free Society do about it??
Years ago Boose was a problem and Society put come Control over the Selling and it does not seem to me as near a Problem as DOPE.
Where do we Start?? Make Pot Legal and treat it like Boose??
Those on Herion Addiction taken away to Large Prison?Rehab? Centers treated and released if successful??
Kill all the Supliers. Destroy all Places making the Products for herion??
Start Programs early in schools??
What are your Ideas ???
Skeet/Loreto |
I still can't get over Skeet, pointing his fingers at illegal drugs, but just about gives "booze" ( alcohol) a pass.
It's a little bit hypocrisy here seeing that alcoholic causes so many heath problems, cars accident's, family problems, and turned so many productive
members of society into common drunks, including here on this forum, if the rumors are correct.
Of course there are some illegal drugs that are very addicting like Heroin and Meth that could destroy lives faster than alcoholic, but I think drugs
like Marijuana are nowhere near as bad as alcohol or some addicting prescription drugs, but it won't keep guys like Skeet and his ilk from pointing
fingers at pretty much benign drugs like Marijuana while they're sipping their favorite poison.
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Barry A.
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Referencing the last several posts on page 2 of this thread, "withdrawal" is certainly a reality, or at least it was for me when I quit smoking. I
can only immagine what it is for other 'drugs'. My point is that once one makes up their mind to quit a drug, and they understand there will be
withdrawal symptoms, then the battle is mostly over by then, and you just put up with the cravings and physical pain and discomfort because you KNOW
what is going on-----and KNOW that it will be over someday soon----------and that makes it so much easier to bare (for me, at least). You have
won!!!! you beat it-------- a great feeling!!!! For me, that was about 16 years ago.
The thought of ME smoking now makes me slightly nauseous, but I still love the smell of cigarette smoke from others. Strange!!!
Barry
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BajaLuna
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Kudos to you bajatripper for studying this!
It's an eye opening experience that's for sure to sit in a group with parents whose kids are heroin addicts and listen to everyone getting truthful
with one another, and parents who may be hearing many things for the first time about their kids and what's really been going on with them. Addiction
is so secretive.
It's a humbling experience that's for sure..it is also heartwrenching, inspiring, revealing, depressing, uplifting, shocking, and ultimately healing.
Everyone has a story, and yet there's a connecting thread that weaves everyone together. When families and addicts learn they are not alone, that
there is support, it makes the road traveled through this healing experience a little better.
I live in Washington too and you're right heroin is out of control here. But MANY good rehab places up here and awesome counselors too....and also
many (not enough though) half-way houses and oxford houses for them to transition into clean and sober living! I really believe in the whole Oxford
House thing, I know many adult kids who have really done well in that environment, and there are manyyyy success stories, and more of those houses
need to be around/donated, although they are paid for by the addicts themselves or their families, they each pay rent there, but the ones I know are
private homes. And the addicts themselves hold each other accountable and they are run democratically, and the rules are tight. Oxford is a great
thing!
God bless the counselors, who most of them don't make a lot of money, yet most are called to do this kind of service!
I heard awhile back that the field of chemical dependency work is going to be in the top five jobs (or maybe it already is) as far as there being a
need for counselors in this field.
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Skeet/Loreto
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WHY DO PEOPLE TAKE HEROIN????
Joe: in my years of experience I have observed many people starting to take Bosse at the Bars, going Home and coming back the next nite. Able to
complete their lives and Work.
DOPE seems to have a much different effec, lasting longer and causing more Physical and Mental Problems.
Is it Genes in the Body? Is it Enviromental?? Is it "Avoiding Emocintial Pain of the Individual?
I smoked for 9 years back in the 70's when it started to affect my Diving in Baja.
I got my "Thrills" in Flying. Skiing the North Face, Jumping out of Airplanes and Fishing.
Nowdays we see the use of heavy Drugs among all People and degrees of Intelligence.
Why???
Skeet
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