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Crusoe
Senior Nomad
Posts: 731
Registered: 10-14-2006
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Here's The Key Phrase.......That was then and this is now!......In the mid 1970's near Manzanillo, Mex. a Bolivinan tin and mining billionare built
the resort Las Hadas. The famous Bo Dereck movie 10 was filmed there on location. That set off an unprecedented boom to the area from northamericanos.
Just north of Manzinillo Bay there is another bay named Santiago Bay. There was a huge, huge time share condo speculation development going on there
where they sold the same condos 50 times over and over.Hundreds of people were swindeled out of millions and millions of there retirement funds and
the codo's were never actually completed and sat dormant for years and years . People lost 100% of their investments which many times ran from 50 to
100% of the full price. Then in the mid 1980's same scenrio I was made aware of was happening all over Puerto Vallrta. People paid for completed
houses only to show up for their winter stays and mexican familys had purchased their homes and had clear titles. These are just small examples. Good
luck out their you buyers. It can be a free for all south of the border, be careful and good luck!!
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backninedan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 865
Registered: 3-8-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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I would like to be a fly on the wall the first time a Canadian loreto ghetto buyer comes down and finds 8 loreto bay workers with bed rolls renting
his quarter million dollar, eco friendly, totally self sufficient, etc etc, casa.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Crusoe
..... If they are so " sustainable" then why haven't they done something to secure and sustain there own warter supply?? Well I can tell you
why.....The right amount of cash got shoved in some Mexican officials pocket and they are allowed to outright steal the locals
water...... and when its all gone they will be long gone back to England... or wherever....... |
this is exactly what's happening here 
those $1350/mo rentals would be for the execs and ingineros not the typical construction workers
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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Some more reading. The first is about desalination, which is required for LB, and how the authors think it would be best implemented there.
http://sherwoodsf.wordpress.com:80/2007/05/10/sherwood-on-me...
This is an interesting article from Baja Life: "Loreto Bay Co.
Sustainable or Greenwashing? " I've saved it just in case it mysteriously disappears from their website. Interesting stuff, not the least of which is
that there are additional claims that the construction workers are ultra low paid guys from the mainland, not the locals, and this is a difficult
problem for the developers because it is their contractors that are doing the hiring.
http://www.bajalifemag.com/pdf/LoretoBay.pdf
After reading both of these the thought that came to mind is that if the developers are sincere about their plans for sustainability; that is,
development that will not only benefit the current generation but also future generations, they've picked probably one of the most difficult places in
the world to do it. This because of a grossly inadequate water supply, inadequate power supply, the fragile nature of the ecosystem, and their partner
FONATUR's "damn the future, let's make some money now" attitude.
Another interesting thing to do is to watch how companies change their tune on the Internet over time. I haven't done this yet for LB but will some
evening. Here's a website that keeps a history of other websites. Was it Mr. Peabody that had a "wayback" machine? Well, here's the digital version.
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.loretobay.com
Have fun, corporations hate this website. It makes it very hard to hide past mistakes, like press releases where the wise CEO hypes the company (their
stock) because of some new innovation that eventually falls flat on its face. I bet, in the future, the Loreto Bay Co. will be damning this website
too because it will be proof of either their ignorance or their lies.
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Baja_Girl
Nomad
Posts: 157
Registered: 4-2-2007
Location: Pasadena, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: suavidad
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Oldhippie, thank you so much for doing the research and sharing this information...reading about this so-called "sustainability" project makes me want
to VOMIT...I know, let's you and I get together over Memorial Day weekend and throw acetone all over the whole project and hope it disappears...
...Loreto is special for many reasons, but it is harsh on people, machinery and buildings and yet it is the very lack of predictability that makes it
lovable...once upon a time, a beautiful bird chanted this lullaby to me about Loreto: "everything breaks down here, if the salt air doesn't get it,
the dry air will get it, if the dry air doesn't get it, the wind will get it, if the wind doesn't get it, the dust will get it, if the dust doesn't
get it, the hurricanes will get it..." and I think I fell asleep...knowing it was all true.
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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You're welcome baja_girl. This development is so dumb and the greenwashing makes me mad. I started my graduate education in Environmental Sciences at
Cal State Fullerton in 1977. It was a new program back then. So I've been a "treehugger" for a long time and the statements these guys are making
really bother me. I think the building of a golf course at LB is a testament to where these guys are really coming from. Nobody that's concerned about
the Loreto ecosystem and the people that live there would build a water hungry golf course that will be used by an elite, rich, very small minority
half the year.
If anything, the state of BCS should emulate what California has done with the state park system along the coastline and build a nice retreat for
folks who enjoy fishing, RVing, scuba diving, boating and other water sports. Perhaps a low profile hotel and some residences would work too. But this
looks like another Cabo Wabo disaster.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
Member Is Offline
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sorry hippy but anyone who says that BCS should emulate california shouldnt be allowed to even visit baja if you like cali why you living in TJ ?? my
opinion jerry
jerry and judi
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Marie-Rose
Senior Nomad
Posts: 894
Registered: 10-2-2003
Location: Victoria, B.C. and Todos Santos
Member Is Offline
Mood: Worried...
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
If anything, the state of BCS should emulate what California has done with the state park system along the coastline and build a nice retreat for
folks who enjoy fishing, RVing, scuba diving, boating and other water sports. Perhaps a low profile hotel and some residences would work too. But this
looks like another Cabo Wabo disaster. |
jerry....think you missed his point
Remember, when in Mexico, yes may be no and no may be
maybe!
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Why would anyone want to buy into a subdivision with water and sewer issues?
Next question. Why would anyone want to live in a housing project?
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Baja_Girl
Nomad
Posts: 157
Registered: 4-2-2007
Location: Pasadena, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: suavidad
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but of course, what will ultimately happen is that as water and utilities become over-worked and in higher demand, prices will increase and the people
who live in the town will be forced to pay higher prices for less...all the while their beautiful city and quality of life is eroded by "excessive"
gringo garbage, waste, traffic - its inevitable that there will be "more", but the LBC is scary.
Acetone may not be the answer, but this is so sickening - "sustainability" - I want to forget that I'm a lady and use some really nasty language -
what can we do Old Hippie...? I'm there, Pam is there, other friends of Loreto are there...money? letters? time? protests?
Keep us posted,
nina de baja
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Stickers
Senior Nomad
Posts: 571
Registered: 4-12-2006
Location: SoCal
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja_Girl
Acetone may not be the answer, but this is so sickening - "sustainability" - I want to forget that I'm a lady and use some really nasty language -
what can we do Old Hippie...? I'm there, Pam is there, other friends of Loreto are there...money? letters? time? protests?
Keep us posted,
nina de baja |
I don't think that you can do anything at this time. As someone on this list always says "nature bats last". The environment, without help from
others will determine the outcome of this ridiculous development.
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Don Alley
Super Nomad
Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
...there are additional claims that the construction workers are ultra low paid guys from the mainland, not the locals, and this is a difficult
problem for the developers because it is their contractors that are doing the hiring. |
Of course the developers have no influence on the hiring practices of the contractors they're paying...
In case LB were interested in supporting their community, are there actually enough local laborers available to do the job?
--Larry |
OK...
First, when you come and say you are going to build 6000 "homes" in a town with a population of 12,000, you gotta expect to import a few workers.
I had a conversation about Loreto workers yesterday with a Mexican business man who came here from the mainland. And I've had the same conversation
before...
Loretanos work for a specific reason. To get another truck, pay of some debt, buy a few things. Then they quit, take some time off. That's the
criticism of Loreto's workforce.
And Loretanos have responded to me: "Yeah, well, that's us. That's how we are."
There are plenty of help wanted signs up. And while I'm no friend of Loreto Bay, seems to me they have been much more tolerant of hiring (and
rehiring, and rehiring again) local Loretanos than others in town. At least for the cheap jobs.
But mainland Mexican business and management people question the long-term reliability of local workers. The local workers have not exactly endeared
themselves to the new jefes in town.
A few locals are going to get rich off this boom. A few are going to do well. Many are going to get flattened as prices rise and they find themselves
out-competed in business and labor by mainland and foreign competition.
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
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baja girl asked what we can do, here's a suggestion
Sandra Dibble is a staff reporter with the San Diego Union. She specializes in baja issues, mostly about the border area, but maybe she would want to
dig into the Loreto Bay Co. We can feed her information and perhaps get her interest.
sandra.dibble@uniontrib.com
This a public email address that she posts on the Union's website so don't be afraid to use it.
All we need to do are things that will make people not want to buy into the project. Then it will dry up and blow away. Spread the word that there is
not enough water, it's hotter than hell for 1/2 the year, and it appears that the developers are fast buck artists.
I found this on a yachting website, the writer had sailed into the Loreto area and was telling his story.
"Billed as “Authentic Mexican Seaside Villages” of “stirring beauty,” Loreto Bay’s design promises to honor the local culture and history. Which is
why there’s an 18-hole golf course in the works, along with a Tennis Center designed by John McEnroe and the “magnificent” Loreto Bay Beach Club &
Spa. Since it’s common knowledge that golf and tennis are time-honored as the great Mexican pastimes – right up there with squash and polo – it’s easy
to appreciate the painstaking efforts Loreto Bay Company is taking to complement a centuries-old fishing village."
hehehe
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9009
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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Yeah, nature bats last.
But human nature can come up as a pinch(e) hitter in the middle innings, scores a few runs and be long gone to the bank before the bottom of the
ninth. 
It's like the antithesis of musical chairs.............maybe you DON'T want to be around at the end.
Dont you figure that there were investors that lost money in the French company that originally started Puerto Escondido?
I have no hard facts about LB.......just enjoy speculating on human nature.
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5118
Registered: 6-21-2005
Location: Nopolo
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow
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Live in Nopolo and am no admirer of Loreto Bay. But I like to be fair. The golfcourse and the tennis center have been here for a long time. One of
Fonatur's brainstorms. LB is just trying to bring them back to playable standards. Fonatur had no idea how to run either one, with deplorable results.
No fault of LB.
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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All we need to do are things that will make people not want to buy into the project. Then it will dry up and blow away. Spread the word that
there is not enough water, it's hotter than hell for 1/2 the year, and it appears that the developers are fast buck artists.
But human nature can come up as a pinch(e) hitter in the middle innings, scores a few runs and be long gone to the bank before the bottom of
the ninth.
While spreading the word, we can also say that for much of the rest of the year it is quite chilly and very windy in loreto. Showering the dust from
your body may be your main vacation pastime. Add to this the fact that the beaches here are mostly rocky, and not conducive to the
massage-on-the-beach resort treatment that so many luxury travelers expect.
The sad thing is that when the developers are long-gone, the concrete will still be there for countless years, although in altered form. There will
be no quick recovery of the wild coast of Baja.
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Baja_Girl
Nomad
Posts: 157
Registered: 4-2-2007
Location: Pasadena, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: suavidad
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My email has been sent...if everyone who reads this posting sends an email - we might just get her attention!!!
thank you,
tu nina de baja
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Baja_Girl
My email has been sent...if everyone who reads this posting sends an email - we might just get her attention!!!
thank you,
tu nina de baja |
I sent an email. Hope it helps!
Hey Baja Girl! Did you get your truck? I didn't see you at the book signing. How's smiley the dog?
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Baja_Girl
Nomad
Posts: 157
Registered: 4-2-2007
Location: Pasadena, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: suavidad
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fish,
check you U2U for more information than you really wanted to know...
Everyone...Please Send An Email...see above...
I love Loreto...
tu nina de baja
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
baja girl asked what we can do, here's a suggestion
Sandra Dibble is a staff reporter with the San Diego Union. She specializes in baja issues, mostly about the border area, but maybe she would want to
dig into the Loreto Bay Co. We can feed her information and perhaps get her interest.
sandra.dibble@uniontrib.com
This a public email address that she posts on the Union's website so don't be afraid to use it.
I emailed Debra and she got right back to me.
Here's an article she wrote on Loreto Bay:
A new day dawns in sleepy Loreto | The San Diego Union-Tribune
Address:http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20051228/news_1n28loreto.html |
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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