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AKgringo
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Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck  | | AKGringo: The beetle kills up here hit a high a few years back and the devastation was very discouraging if you rode through the devastated areas of
single species replanted forests. Fortunately, what was not immediately logged and consequently burnt in the recent wild fires is now recovering with
a far more resilient mix of fire encouraged varied species. Nature has an amazing way of healing itself if we let it |
Actually, I did drive between Alaska and the US several times during that astonishing beetle epidemic! It helps keep me from whining about the trees
I have lost.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo |
Actually, I did drive between Alaska and the US several times during that astonishing beetle epidemic! It helps keep me from whining about the trees
I have lost. |
So you will remember the area(assuming you took the Cassiar) from Burns Lake to Prince George. I have been told its greening up very nicely now and is
a much healthier forest than existed previously. You might also remember the forest service purposely let these wild fires burn themselves out and
only sought to protect the populated areas in the past few years.
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oxxo
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@JDCanuck and @AKgringo when you talk about "trees" you are encroaching into my area of science. The subject disease is officially known as PINE
Bark Beetle and affects only pine trees. It is a major disease originally imported from the forests of northern Mexico and now infects pine trees
throughout most of California and is moving northward. GENERALLY SPEAKING...wood for housing construction is built primarily from FIR trees, not Pine
trees. Yes, Fir Trees are subject to various diseases but not to the same extent as Pine trees and not by the Pine Bark Beetle. Currently, there is
no known prevention for the Pine Bark Beetle, but Horticultural Scientists are diligently working on it.
The dramatic cost increase of lumber and all building materials is GENERALLY attributed to US tariffs on foreign building products (Canada and China -
in some cases raw logs are shipped to China for milling at lower cost than milling in the US and then shipped back to the US as "dressed" lumber at
much higher cost), a dramatic increase in wages in the US as a political strategy to please voters, and the increase in the cost of fuel by the
petroleum industry as a financial strategy to please stock holders. Although the Pine Bark Beetle is an environmental disaster in infected areas, it
is, at this point, not the most significant contributor to the increased cost of building materials.
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AKgringo
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Oxxo, there are also beetles that attack Spruce trees in Alaska, and I can show you Douglas Fir trees on my property that are definitely beetle kills.
I am also losing Cedar trees that are harboring grubs, but I suspect that they entered the bark postmortem. I really don't know what is killing the
cedars.
I want to add that this is not a drought related issue, the surrounding trees are doing very well.
If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!
"Could do better if he tried!" Report card comments from most of my grade school teachers. Sadly, still true!
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco |
Meanwhile, those pushing the "science" on climate change are still buying beach houses for 2nd and 3rd homes knowing full well there is no meaningful
sea-level rise on a planet that is essentially a closed loop.
Luckily, those with sound reasoning know the old palm tree is safe from water encroachment unless there is a plate shift or something more
meaningful.... all of which are TOTALLY out of the control of humans. |
What does a beach house have to do with Climate Change other than those with beach houses in low lying areas can attest to a rising sea level as their
homes flood and they have to abandon their property? You are over-simplifying the issue. Purchasing a beach house on a hillside 100 ft. above
current sea level has little to do with climate change (other than more hurricanes threatening properties in tropical areas not even on the beach).
You are free to believe whatever you like about some unconfirmed by the scientific method, random palm tree , but oceanic water level has been
measured and it is rising at a relatively alarming rate! @TioLoco you will soon be able to buy your beach home at an unbelievably low price, but it
will be underwater by several inches. Please join the land rush for beach homes in low lying areas if you believe what you say.
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JDCanuck
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AKGringo: It sounds like you have a very unusual situation where you live, I would get an expert out to investigate.
Oxxo: The beetle kills we are talking about exist in the Northern part of British Columbia, maybe not the same as you are speaking of in southern
areas and moving north? Traditionally, they were held in check by very low winter temperatures and a series of warmer winters led to the rapid spread.
We mill spruce pine and fir up here for building materials, stamped as SPF.
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco |
Meanwhile, those pushing the "science" on climate change are still buying beach houses for 2nd and 3rd homes knowing full well there is no meaningful
sea-level rise...
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So you know these people personally (please do tell us who all these people you are accusing of this are) and therefore know that they "know full well
there is no meaningful sea level rise"?
Maybe they bought beach houses because they can afford to do so and want to enjoy a beach vacation house while they still can, knowing full well it
may not be possible in years to come.
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by AKgringo | Oxxo, there are also beetles that attack Spruce trees in Alaska, and I can show you Douglas Fir trees on my property that are definitely beetle kills.
I am also losing Cedar trees that are harboring grubs, but I suspect that they entered the bark postmortem. I really don't know what is killing the
cedars.
I want to add that this is not a drought related issue, the surrounding trees are doing very well. |
I agree, as I said in my overly simplified post above. ALL trees (not just conifers) are subject to pests of various types. But the #1 pest right
now in the Pine Genera is the Pine Bark Beetle which may result in the extinction of the Pine Genera in the Western US if a cure cannot be found soon
enough. As far as building materials, the Fir species is the backbone of the housing industry.
In some cases, it IS a drought/climate change issue since all conifer species, even in the same Genus, have different horticultural requirements -
sun, water, temperature, soil, etc. Some trees in the same genus but not the same species, will be infected, but some won't. While trees in other
conifer Genuses (Genera) will be totally unaffected and uninfected.
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi |
Maybe they bought beach houses because they can afford to do so and want to enjoy a beach vacation house while they still can, knowing full well it
may not be possible in years to come.
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Yes, I am one of those who purchased a beach condo on the SOC twenty years ago. It is now for sale. I am not selling because of the rising sea
level, my place is safe from rising ocean levels for beyond my lifetime (but some of my neighbors aren't). I am selling because of climate change.
Year round temperatures continue to inch up, 93 F in my area today, down from 97 a couple of days ago. And the increasing risk of more frequent
hurricane damage; we are being warned that this could be a huge year for hurricanes in the Los Cabos area! The hurricane season in the Los Cabos area
(and most of coastal Baja California) has been lengthened from June 1 to end of November 
Oye!, @TioLoco, are you interested in making me an offer? I didn't think so. 
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | | Quote: Originally posted by surabi |
Maybe they bought beach houses because they can afford to do so and want to enjoy a beach vacation house while they still can, knowing full well it
may not be possible in years to come.
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Yes, I am one of those who purchased a beach condo on the SOC twenty years ago. It is now for sale. I am not selling because of the rising sea
level, my place is safe from rising ocean levels for beyond my lifetime (but some of my neighbors aren't). I am selling because of climate change.
Year round temperatures continue to inch up, 93 F in my area today, down from 97 a couple of days ago. And the increasing risk of more frequent
hurricane damage; we are being warned that this could be a huge year for hurricanes in the Los Cabos area! The hurricane season in the Los Cabos area
(and most of coastal Baja California) has been lengthened from June 1 to end of November
Oye!, @TioLoco, are you interested in making me an offer? I didn't think so.
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My beach house is located steps from the water with beautiful sand and no cliffs.
No, not interested in your hamster cage in cabo, thx
Am curious how much those temperatures have inched up over the last 100 years..... Did you expect the weather to repeat itself day after day, year
after year?
[Edited on 6-1-2024 by Tioloco]
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco |
Many liberals with the financial means buy beach houses. Some are financed by those pesky bankers that are risk averse. Dont think the 30 year
mortgages would be available if sea level rise was really an immediate threat.
Second point- 2/3 of the earth is covered in water. Beach houses will ALWAYS be popular. Even if water rose, those that can afford to would still
build accordingly. |
Many Conservatives with and without financial means, who deny and those who do believe climate change, buy beach houses....and some of them are those
"pesky bankers". A couple of them are my neighbors who are now becoming concerned about the impact of climate change on their beach properties. Oh,
and you have obviously not been shopping mortgages for beach properties recently because many institutions will not fund a mortgage of any length on
any "at risk" property. Here in California, and several other States, the home insurance businesses are refusing to renew policies on properties that
are subject to wildfires as a result drought conditions! No home insurance and you can kiss your home mortgage goodby!
@TioLoco, amigo, I can agree with you that the earth is covered by 2/3 ocean. But that percentage is increasing slowly as the polar ice caps melt at
an alarming rate. If you don't want to, or can't afford to buy my beach house,,,,,would you like to buy my submarine. I've used it to run drugs up
to Californico in the past. 
take care, amigo, and stay out of the water.
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo | | Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco |
Many liberals with the financial means buy beach houses. Some are financed by those pesky bankers that are risk averse. Dont think the 30 year
mortgages would be available if sea level rise was really an immediate threat.
Second point- 2/3 of the earth is covered in water. Beach houses will ALWAYS be popular. Even if water rose, those that can afford to would still
build accordingly. |
Many Conservatives with and without financial means, who deny and those who do believe climate change, buy beach houses....and some of them are those
"pesky bankers". A couple of them are my neighbors who are now becoming concerned about the impact of climate change on their beach properties. Oh,
and you have obviously not been shopping mortgages for beach properties recently because many institutions will not fund a mortgage of any length on
any "at risk" property. Here in California, and several other States, the home insurance businesses are refusing to renew policies on properties that
are subject to wildfires as a result drought conditions! No home insurance and you can kiss your home mortgage goodby!
@TioLoco, amigo, I can agree with you that the earth is covered by 2/3 ocean. But that percentage is increasing slowly as the polar ice caps melt at
an alarming rate. If you don't want to, or can't afford to buy my beach house,,,,,would you like to buy my submarine. I've used it to run drugs up
to Californico in the past.
take care, amigo, and stay out of the water. |
Basing public policy off of the habits of insurance companies is not wise. And you are correct, I haven't and wont be shopping mortgage rates for a
beach property. I dont finance toys or vacation property.
Not interested in buying your apartment near the sea.
Polar ice caps werent always there.... The earth constantly evolves. To think that they are going to submerge the earth in a dangerous manner is BS. I
would venture to say the Mexican cartel violence is your bigger motivation for leaving Cabo. It is what it is. But dont use climate change to cover
for your fear.
The palm trees in Cabo are safe from sea level rise.
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RFClark
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Sorry I missed this fun! Doug will probably take it back to 113 when he sees this. If he does I think it should be a separate topic.
We were at COSTCO in Cabo. Needed pollo rostizado and meat. Those “Godless Chinese Chickens” sure are great and just $110 pesos!
But I digress.
Government using its power to force its citizens to change their behavior in ways that it thinks is best (in its opinion) has just hit an “ice burg
and sunk”! The Supreme Court ruled 9-0 against the State of NY in The NRA V Vullo
As Justice Sotomayer’s opinion noted, “At the heart of the First Amendment’s Free Speech Clause is the recognition that viewpoint discrimination
is uniquely harmful to a free and democratic society. … The takeaway is that the First Amendment prohibits government officials from wielding their
power selectively to punish or suppress speech.”
This goes far beyond a single viewpoint that you might not agree with. Consider the other viewpoints that the government goes to great lengths to
suppress because in the opinion of those in charge but usually not elected they feel that those viewpoints are harmful.
And yes this directly goes to the using of power by the unelected government officials trying to force changes in behavior by regulations and tax
policy.
Rice (diet) and bicycles (mobility) as examples!
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oxxo
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | | Doug will probably take it back to 113 when he sees this. If he does I think it should be a separate topic. |
Yes, I agree. I'm bowing out at this point. I will not participate in a conversation with insults, recriminations, and meaningless rhetoric. No
minds have been changed or even enlightened.
I have listened to everyone's viewpoint and I have nothing further to say.
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surfhat
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Thanks for trying xoxo.
Please don't give up on all, and I mean all, of our and our generations to come futures.
You have been more than reasonable and have more patience with the deniers than I have.
I implore others to look beyond their locales and see what is coming their way, albeit decades later, in areas of the planet where it is more than
obvious now.
The truth is out there. Haha
You can try to lead a horse to water, but might as well give up attempting to lead the horses rear end anywhere toward the reality they refused to
accept. They will be long gone, as I will, but at least I know I tried to add some small effort in my own way to giving Mother Nature the respect she
deserves.
Future generations will have no doubt about who stood up for them when it could have made a difference, and who did not.
Living our lives for those to come should matter. We are the lucky ones with the caveat that it is for the time being.
Thanks xoxo for what should not be a debate over mankind's direct impact on our shared planets ability to remain livable.
Man can change the climate if they choose. Mankind has done this beyond a doubt forty years ago when the decision was made to eliminate CFC's.
Have at it. I know what is coming from the usual suspects. A heavy sigh is all I have left to express.
xoxo your voice of reason is like a breath of fresh air and appreciated.
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JDCanuck
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| Quote: Originally posted by oxxo |
Yes, I agree. I'm bowing out at this point. I will not participate in a conversation with insults, recriminations, and meaningless rhetoric. No
minds have been changed or even enlightened.
I have listened to everyone's viewpoint and I have nothing further to say. |
Too bad Oxxo: I found your contributions both opinion altering on my part and beneficial as we attempt to find some common ground on climate issues. I
for one will miss your input if you stop posting
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JDCanuck
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I have been studying demographic trends recently and was amazed at what I've learned.
1) India has just become the most populous nation, but the birth rates have gone under natural replacement at 2.0 births per female.
2) globally, we are already under 2.1 births per female, the ratio seen as natural replacement of the population. Europe and most wealthier countries
have been under this rate for some time and are now relying on immigration to support their aging populations. The exceptions are the Arab countries
where birth rates remain at 3.2 per female
3) if present trends continue, we will go into population decline by the end of this century, when the average birth rate is lower than the effects of
increasing life expectancy
How this all affects the climate trends will have a major impact on predictions presently put forward.
[Edited on 6-2-2024 by JDCanuck]
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Tioloco
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I often ponder how the climate alarmists justify to themselves traveling to Baja and beyond. Clearly their carbon footprint would be smaller if they
stayed home. Must be some sort of a self righteous thing?
That lonely palm tree at the root of our discussion is sure to filter a lot of CO2 from passing cars being piloted by these climate warriors.
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RFClark
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Intolerance of other differing viewpoints is the heart of the Supreme Court decision cited and the problem here. No action is ever taken against the
name callers! And yes, no minds will be changed even though the facts on the ground have changed.
It turns out that prior to the industrial revolution the humans on the earth were already making changes in the earth’s climate that are being
measured today. The drop in atmospheric CO2 and Europe’s “little ice age” that occurred between 1500 and 1700 were a result of the deaths of a
large percentage of the native population in the Americas caused by diseases brought by the livestock of Spanish and Portuguese explorers.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-45894-9
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by Tioloco | I often ponder how the climate alarmists justify to themselves traveling to Baja and beyond. Clearly their carbon footprint would be smaller if they
stayed home. Must be some sort of a self righteous thing?
That lonely palm tree at the root of our discussion is sure to filter a lot of CO2 from passing cars being piloted by these climate warriors.
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Penepoco,
This may be illogical to you, but is possible to live a fulfilling and diverse life without being a glutton. I practice conservation in my home and
life, i am not overweight or obese, i generally live a low-carbon life compared to my peers. My carbon footprint from traveling is more than offset
by my conservation elsewhere.
Btw, practicing conservation generally equates to lower $ cost, so more money available for travel or other luxuries.
Penepoco, You dont give a chit, that much is clear. Hopefully, society as a whole is not like you, and the net carbon footprint will fall despite the
gluttony of people like you who do not think and do not care.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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