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mtgoat666
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Quote: Originally posted by surabi  | Except Musk is nothing like John Kerry and isn't jetting around to spread a message on climate change- he is jetting around to his various businesses,
on private vacations, and taking ridiculously short flights (like 9 minutes), when if he actually cared about climate change he would drive one of his
EVs on a 10 mile trip, wouldn't he?
And you are suggesting that reductions in carbon footprints be counted twice? A twofer? The Tesla purchaser gets to claim that lowered carbon emission
footprint and then that same exact reduction is also credited to the manufacturer?
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You people complaining about the very few people that travel by private jet cannot see the forest for the trees.
The average american is a carbon glutton. Convince (or force) the average american to stop driving bloated cars and trucks and you can cut carbon use
dramatically. Much of the gluttonous and excessive energy use by americans can be cut by passing creative laws to socially engineer americans into
lower energy consumption. 
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 |
The average american is a carbon glutton. Convince (or force) the average american to stop driving bloated cars and trucks and you can cut carbon use
dramatically. Much of the gluttonous and excessive energy use by americans can be cut by passing creative laws to socially engineer americans into
lower energy consumption.
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I don't disagree with any of that.
But that doesn't negate the fact that "Private jets emit at least 10 times more pollutants than commercial planes per passenger," the report notes.
"Unsurprisingly, approximately 1% of people are believed to be responsible for about half of all aviation carbon emissions."
So those "few" people who travel by private jet who you seem to want to absolve of responsibility have a disproportionately huge impact on
environmental pollution.
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ORphil
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Tio, was it communism that created rationing of important resources in the US of A during ww2? Or a concerted effort by the government and the public
for a common goal?
What about the WPA and the CCC? We wouldn't have cheap hydro power on the west coast otherwise. Or certain famous bridges and such.
Imagine if we asked the average American today to only burn so many gallons of petroleum for the common good. Maybe one doesn't need to drive a lifted
diesel at 12 mpg to work sanding fiberglass for 4 tens for giant rvs that no one needs.
C'mon man
Plus a zillion other things they built, campgrounds, trails, parks, power right of ways, highways, fire fighting, libraries, hospitals, schools, on
and on.
Sounds good to me.
[Edited on 7-14-2024 by ORphil]
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pacificobob
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| Quote: Originally posted by ORphil | Tio, was it communism that created rationing of important resources in the US of A during ww2? Or a concerted effort by the government and the public
for a common goal?
What about the WPA and the CCC? We wouldn't have cheap hydro power on the west coast otherwise. Or certain famous bridges and such.
Imagine if we asked the average American today to only burn so many gallons of petroleum for the common good. Maybe one doesn't need to drive a lifted
diesel at 12 mpg to work sanding fiberglass for 4 tens for giant rvs that no one needs.
C'mon man
Plus a zillion other things they built, campgrounds, trails, parks, power right of ways, highways, fire fighting, libraries, hospitals, schools, on
and on.
Sounds good to me.
[Edited on 7-14-2024 by ORphil] |
Sounds good to me too.
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacificobob | | Quote: Originally posted by ORphil | Tio, was it communism that created rationing of important resources in the US of A during ww2? Or a concerted effort by the government and the public
for a common goal?
What about the WPA and the CCC? We wouldn't have cheap hydro power on the west coast otherwise. Or certain famous bridges and such.
Imagine if we asked the average American today to only burn so many gallons of petroleum for the common good. Maybe one doesn't need to drive a lifted
diesel at 12 mpg to work sanding fiberglass for 4 tens for giant rvs that no one needs.
C'mon man
Plus a zillion other things they built, campgrounds, trails, parks, power right of ways, highways, fire fighting, libraries, hospitals, schools, on
and on.
Sounds good to me.
[Edited on 7-14-2024 by ORphil] |
Sounds good to me too. |
Wait, you two are embracing communism because the USA rationed things during WW2 (The war that was a fight for our lives)
False equivalency.
As for the old palm tree. During the time this thread has been active, has the water level increased yet?
[Edited on 7-14-2024 by Tioloco]
[Edited on 7-14-2024 by Tioloco]
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JDCanuck
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John Kerry and his family's Private Jet charter company had no influence on whether I bought an EV. Elon Musk on the other hand had a huge influence.
Elon Musk isn't pushing me to give up meat and milk to reduce my carbon footprint as other influencers are and in the meantime creating more and more
demand for energy to drastically expand their profits, he's continuously developing real carbon reducing solutions. I don't see any real comparison
here to someone who flies around the world pushing drastic reductions in lifestyles on the common man and someone who is actually developing solutions
we can all easily embrace.
[Edited on 7-14-2024 by JDCanuck]
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JDCanuck
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Its pretty easy to get the data on which corporations have in the past 15-20 years actually reduced their carbon footprint and which have drastically
increased theirs. It's a pretty eye-opening set of data and goes directly against whats being pushed on us to pay trillions of dollars for as
taxpayers without any noticeable improvement.
I see no practical benefit to sending another 2 billion to the three biggest past opponents to EV adoption simply because they are unionized as
opposed to the many competing EV startups that are and have been fully committed to EV adoption and then call it support of EV manufacturing in the
US, do you?
[Edited on 7-14-2024 by JDCanuck]
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | John Kerry and his family's Private Jet charter company had no influence on whether I bought an EV. Elon Musk on the other hand had a huge influence.
Elon Musk isn't pushing me to give up meat and milk to reduce my carbon footprint as other influencers are and in the meantime creating more and more
demand for energy to drastically expand their profits, he's continuously developing real carbon reducing solutions. I don't see any real comparison
here to someone who flies around the world pushing drastic reductions in lifestyles on the common man and someone who is actually developing solutions
we can all easily embrace.
[Edited on 7-14-2024 by JDCanuck] |
Elon Musk isn't developing solutions because he cares about the environment, his motive is enriching himself.
If he cared about solutions, he wouldn't gave fathered 11 children so far.
I am much more inclined to accept the carbon footprint of those who have to fly to events which are designed to promote solutions to climate change in
general, although if they don't want to be seen as hypocrites, they should at least be flying commercial, not in private jets.
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RFClark
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S,
You are so much more inclined to support and carry water for those who endorse your beliefs no matter what else they do. For you it’s about US
politics even if you claim to be Canadian!
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surabi
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Politics has nothing to do with climate change or my views on how to mitigate it and what we as individuals can do. As I said, Kerry and others who
are involved in climate change action should be flying commercial if they profess to care about carbon emissions. So should Musk. But Musk cares so
little, he takes a 9 minute private jet flight instead of driving one of his own EVs. I call that out because it's entitled and uncaring, not because
of his politics.
Don't gaslight.
[Edited on 7-14-2024 by surabi]
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RFClark
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S,
Absolutely, politics should have nothing to do with Climate policy. That said it has everything to do with it in the US. You never fail to delve into
US politics when commenting even though people with the views you dis and who comment here are as “Green” or even Greener than yourself.
I include myself in that group as without having any idea what my politics are you include me in a particular group. That said I’m as Green or
Greener than you because as you state “It shouldn't be about politics”!
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JDCanuck
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So true...individuals will always do what they can do. What they get upset about is politicians who claim to be taking their money and using it to
reduce their footprint but are in reality taking it to buy votes from their supporters. Let us keep our money and find our own way to reduce our
footprint in the most efficient manner we know of.
In my case it was solar panels and eventually an EV. But I guarantee John Kerry or any present or prior President or Prime Minister had zero
contribution on how i managed it. Rather they did their best to have me contribute my funds for their own discretion.
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | | You never fail to delve into US politics when commenting even though people with the views you dis and who comment here are as “Green” or even
Greener than you. |
That first part is patently untrue.
And while I know that you are quite "Green" in the way you live, the people whose views I dis are those who insist that nothing we as individuals do
can have any positive impact, and who champion and defend their eschewing of trying to live more sustainably, and actually brag about having no
intention to ever change anything about their lifestyles to lessen their footprint.
Why you would want to align yourself with those people, when you are actually living more sustainably, is baffling. Maybe it's political???
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RFClark
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S,
Posting “climate” information from a political opinion article is, well, Political!
Why align? Because what you indorse won’t solve the or even address the problem we face! It isn’t even Science it’s simple math.
Then there is the poor quality of the data used for the predictions of the Apocalypse!
Greetings from the “empty quarter” today’s forecast 103 currently 78 and raining like hell!
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by RFClark | S,
Posting “climate” information from a political opinion article is, well, Political!
Why align? Because what you indorse won’t solve the or even address the problem we face! It isn’t even Science it’s simple math.
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Example please of me posting climate information from a political opinion article.
And "information" is a matter of fact. Just because a site leans right or left does not mean the information that is posted there isn't fact. Opinions
on what to do about it are just that- -opinions.
And where did I ever say that what you think I "endorse" is going to "solve" the climate change problems? Or do you think everyone should just do
nothing on an individual basis to lessen their carbin footprint just because it won't "solve" the problem on a global scale? Do you think Cliffy's
constant refrain of "The climate has always been changing" adds anything of value to a discussion on man-made climate change and possible solutions?
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JDCanuck
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I think Cliffy's statement may actually be one of the most helpful. If everything we do and throw public funds at can't change the facts of climate
changing, maybe we should spend more time and energy coming up with adaptive solutions rather than just trying to reverse it.
Designing passive cooling as was common in the past in housing might be a good start, rather than remaining dependent on heat producing AC units
whether they are run by fossil fuel generated power or renewable power.
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | I think Cliffy's statement may actually be one of the most helpful. If everything we do and throw public funds at can't change the facts of climate
changing, maybe we should spend more time and energy coming up with adaptive solutions rather than just trying to reverse it.
Designing passive cooling as was common in the past in housing might be a good start, rather than remaining dependent on heat producing AC units
whether they are run by fossil fuel generated power or renewable power. |
You are spot on JD. There are a lot of things that are manmade and "green" that are heat producing. Just the way it is.
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JDCanuck
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I wouldn't call AC units green, but they are increasingly necessary to save unnecessary deaths as we learned up here just 2 years ago.
For some, the best solution might be double pane windows, for some more insulation, or opening windows at one side of their great room at the top and
others at the shaded side at the lower side. For that farmer in Pakistan that just managed to scrape together the cash to buy his first tractor, do
we really want to force him to pay 50% more for his fuel to support his family? I'm just saying the best solution for me may not be the best solution
for someone in Lapland, Pakistan or Mexico.
[Edited on 7-15-2024 by JDCanuck]
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Tioloco
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck | I wouldn't call AC units green, but they are increasingly necessary to save unnecessary deaths as we learned up here just 2 years ago.
For some, the best solution might be double pane windows, for some more insulation, or opening windows at one side of their great room at the top and
others at the shaded side at the lower side. For that farmer in Pakistan that just managed to scrape together the cash to buy his first tractor, do
we really want to force him to pay 50% more for his fuel to support his family? I'm just saying the best solution for me may not be the best solution
for someone in Lapland, Pakistan or Mexico.
[Edited on 7-15-2024 by JDCanuck] |
Good points. Another consideration is a lot of people are just not as healthy or tough as they were in previous generations. AC units are a relatively
new invention for comfort. Yet another societal problem, eh?
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RFClark
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JD,
Upon thinking about it solar powered AC can’t add heat to the environment the way that AC run off other sources can. In fact I feel a case can be
made that because 80% or more of the sun’s energy is reflected or reradiated off the solar panels they actually may reduce the amount of heat stored
in the ground beneath them.
The AC unit uses the collected solar energy to move heat around rather than generating new heat. The combination isn’t making things hotter in the
way that AC powered by thermal generating stations can.
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