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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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Amir,
I found those essays encouraging because they point out that there are local people and Mexican organizations also opposed to unchecked development.
Given the messes (but profitable) tourist developments that have been created in Mexico, it appears that there wasn't any opposition before.
Like most if not all large construction projects in Mexico I would assume that Loreto Bay's success is entirely contingent upon pre-selling. Since
Fonatur is not the builder, just the land owner, I don't think there will be much construction done on speculation. It's not a "build it they will
come" project. It's more of a "if they come we'll build it" project. I bet Loreto Bay is paying Fonatur for the land as they sell the houses. I doubt
they have pre-paid for it. And there is probably time limit on the deal. If sales really slow down, the LB execs will be in a bind. This is probably
why they are so heavy on marketing and have cut deals with airlines and who knows who else to get this done quickly.
Anything that can throw a screwdriver in the works is a good thing. Local opposition is a big screwdriver.
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amir
Senior Nomad
Posts: 559
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
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Mood: chiropractic
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Oldhippie,
I understand that local opposition is good. What depressed me was the long list of planned development: Harbors like Long Beach, gas pipelines, mega
construction projects everywhere. Even if a small portion gets completed, the pristine nature of Baja gets eroded. Some of the quotes from officials
also irked me - they don't have a clue, or maybe they do, but they invent statistics without really knowing what the outcome of their plans will be.
There are always two sides to the same coin, it's the ignorance and indifference of the "other" side that bothers me.
--Amir
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oldhippie
Banned
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Econergy, the company building the Loreto Bay wind turbine project, annual losses at 8.5 million this year, up from 2.2 million losses last year.
http://www.hemscott.com/news/latest-news/item.do?newsId=4273...
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amir
Senior Nomad
Posts: 559
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Todos Santos, BCS
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Mood: chiropractic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
...annual losses at 8.5 million this year, up from 2.2 million losses last year. |
No profits=no development. May it all fall down like a house of cards...
--Amir
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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The thieves are coming out of the woodwork
http://www.platinumcapitalinternational.com/
Think I'll fill out their "secure" loan application, which BTW is not secure, and buy an authentic mexican house designed by canadians. 
Wow man, PLATINUM capital. Must be good. I only have a GOLD mastercard. I wonder if I qualify. MOON ROCK Capital turned me down.
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Crusoe
Senior Nomad
Posts: 731
Registered: 10-14-2006
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An Educated Observation....Just More Bogus Promotions.....What You Dont See..????... All thier adds focus on water views and fake little swiming pools
with water and cheap water attachments, and bright contrasting colors. " "The good life" "Oh! wish I was there and owned it"... IS what they are
espousing.....If life is so good in Arizona and So. Cal. why are all these afluents moving to Baja??.....But the reality is there is no drinking
water!!Where in the world are they going to get housing for the workers?? And fresh healthy drinkling water??.....Where will their sewege end up? Who
is going to take care of their young children and educate them?? It will not be the Mexican Politicos, That is for sure. ++C++
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
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Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Old Hippie. Loreto Bay is too late to be stopped. But if you divert all this energy you are using to stop them, might it not be more rewarding if it
was directed to the San Bruno development that "hasn't" gotten started yet??? Makes more sense to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3821
Registered: 2-9-2004
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It's not too late for LB to be stopped. They've built approx. 300 homes? 5,700 more to go? Look at it. Looks like Playas de Tijuana. The actual
plan is 20 years hence. They would have to sell and build 285 homes per year for 20 years to meet their plan. Hasn't happened yet. A building
moratorium, worker strike, anti-Loreto Bay website, a kiosk in town - preferably next door to the LB sales office - distributing the TRUTH, competing
developments, the people and municipal government of Loreto, can all work toward promoting a sales and construction slowdown and maybe stopping it
before it becomes the ghost town it's designed to be. Won't be too much longer that the wind generator plan will prove out (or not), and how much
longer can they ignore the fact that their current water plan is not sustainable, and their desal plant is not feasible. Who can build an anti-LB
website?
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oldhippie
Banned
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Registered: 6-25-2006
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Too late to be stopped? Nonsense! They haven't even built the desalination plant or wind turbines yet. There's no water and there's no power. Jesus,
you can't even buy a decent pair of authentic mexican Gucci shoes there yet. The golf courses aren't landscaped, there's no place to recharge the golf
cart batteries and there's no cardiac unit there either.
How can it be too late?
Plus, I've been telling my late night crew of ratero friends (TJ is full of them, as you've probably heard) that there's GOLD in Loreto, just sitting
there for the taking. They're starting to drool in anticipation.
Has Loreto Bay provided a sustainable Loreto police force yet?
Lock it up Phil. You'll soon have authentic Mexican thugs rolling into town.
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oldhippie
Banned
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Registered: 6-25-2006
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Gotta go, it's morning, and my buddies are probably just waking up in the arroyos by the beach looking for their first Viva Villa gulp of the morning.
I said earlier that I'm talking to other people about this. Who did you think I meant? Greenpeace?
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Are people of non-mexican descent part of the community in mexico?
Do mexicans have more responsibilty or rights than people with another background to decide what happens in the community, now and in the future such
as in loreto?
The "I am a gringo therefore I can't participate in managing mexico" - type of thinking is perpetuated by those who would prefer to excuse themselves
from their responsibilties. If you live in mexico, whether with FMT, FM3 or FM2, mexican or naturalized, you are part of the mexican community, you
have every single right and responsibilty as anyone else, you are a citizen according to the constitution and you must act to take care and
participate in the management of your city and its resources, including managing the ecosystem and infrastructure.
Get involved, read the plans for future development and act to be sure the impact is reasonable and mitigated. Write your local goverment, ask
questions of the municipality and developers, participate.
I am not suggesting it will be easy or fun, or will even have desired impact but it is your/our responsibility.
The lack of effort by non-natives to manage their infrastructure is precisely the source of the problem causing mismanaged growth.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Are gnu nuts?
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
The "I am a gringo therefore I can't participate in managing mexico" - type of thinking is perpetuated by those who would prefer to excuse themselves
from their responsibilties. If you live in mexico, whether with FMT, FM3 or FM2, mexican or naturalized, you are part of the mexican community, you
have every single right and responsibilty as anyone else, you are a citizen according to the constitution and you must act to take care and
participate in the management of your city and its resources, including managing the ecosystem and infrastructure. |
With an FMT/3/2 you are most certainly not a citizen.
Mexico doesn't want your imput, constitutionally forbids it and will deport you.
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4332
Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
Gotta go, it's morning, and my buddies are probably just waking up in the arroyos by the beach looking for their first Viva Villa gulp of the morning.
I said earlier that I'm talking to other people about this. Who did you think I meant? Greenpeace? |
 Hang in there!
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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gnukid
If you think that, just drive around La Paz in a U.S. licensed car at election time with candidate posters.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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gnukid:
May I ask "Where did you go to School"?
I have some very good Books for you to read as well as some Suggestions on some places to go to really experience Baja, Mexico and its People.
You might, just might change you mind.
Skeet
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aquaholic
Nomad
Posts: 119
Registered: 9-2-2006
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...HERE WE GO, AGAIN...
The Spanish company, Fadesa, just announced that they are going to build a $5.4 billion development in Loreto with 6500 homes, etc...where are all the
necessary items coming from if Loreto Bay is already taxing the system??? The infra-structure required will be beyond what Loreto can supply...Are
there really that many folks that will buy into the Loreto developments..??? We have been talking about LB, and what it will mean for the community,
and now, there is an even larger development announced. Has anyone seen any further info on this project..???
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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the original post to this thread...
...refered to this one on www.tripadvisor.com well some more comments have been added. take a look:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g150772-i879-k1115386-L...
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Isn't the issue at hand is whether the growth plan's impact may likely have a largely negative impact on the community and enviorment and whether or
not it is a sustainable community plan?
Discuss these issues with neighbors and see what they have to say to you about participating in the community planning.
Dave, It's the basis of Mexican law, no you can't vote but you are an equal citizen with equal rights and responsibilty. Ask your senior immigraccion
officer. Don't make excuses for yourself from your responsibilty to participate. And please dont speak for the mexican people collectively while
disparaging my opinion-that's arrogant and absurd. And don't for one moment think you don't have a responsibilty to take care of the city where you
live irrregardless of your status. The attitude that you are not welcome or not supposed to help or be involved politically in Baja are simply the
ideas of a small group who do not represent the community, the history of Baja or the future, its not valid , nor was it ever.
Baja, like California is made up a diverse group of people who depend on each other to survive.
Skeet, I went to school at San Jose State, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, and Universidad Autonomous Baja California Sur where I have studied and taught
and worked on resources and educational materials about Baja history, the Mission's history, Native Indian history and cultural history. I just
returned from a week living with the Seri people where I worked on documenting their history.
http://vps.ooto.com/032007/pages/IMG_0007.html
Comitan, Agundez invited me (and you) to attend some rallies for him and speak about integration issues and I did, not that I agree with all of his
policies but yes I have a US plated car with political stickers (and even carry spares for my buddies).
http://vps.ooto.com/masbueno/pages/P1011678.htm
For the last 25 years I have spent about half the year living in baja's small villages, remote points among indians and also in Mexico City and La Paz
among other places. I am simply learning, participating and being involved (why wouldn't you be involved?), documenting the history of the people of
Baja and the current integration between Las Californias, Baja and El Norte.
I know, lots of you here disagree with me and with each other about your responsibilities at your vacation or permanent home, in regard to the role we
should play as part of our communities. I respect that. I have a right to expouse and evangelize my opinion too, and I have a responsibilty to my
neighbors, which is to remind you, basically we are all part of a diverse group with a common history who love it here in Baja. More so, the law and
history has shaped my beliefs, if you live in mexico and you carry a current visa you are an equal citizen with equal responsibilities and
protections.
What will happen if Loreto is built as planned and the 150,000 people their don't feel its their responsibilty to participate and manage their city?
If you dont want to participate dont, but dont step in the way of those who are particpating on planning, writing about issues, going to meetings and
thinking about infrastructure issues and solutions. This is an espcially important time to be involved in Baja.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Mood: mellow
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Gnukid
I will inquire about us delving in Mexican Politics, because I'm only going on rummer.
Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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bancoduo
Banned
Posts: 1003
Registered: 10-3-2005
Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by comitan
Gnukid
I will inquire about us delving in Mexican Politics, because I'm only going on rummer. |
I used to go on
RUMMERS but now it's just beer
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