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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Thanks monoloco for this report. It is still happening. I am glad we have an approach that has been demonstrated to work with this Police Extortion in
Ciudad Constitution.
If you are stopped by a policeman in CC and they try to extort money from you , this approach that has been used successfully to stop this crime.
Come to a complete stop at ALL intersections, look both ways to make sure no pedestrians in cross walks. Follow the 18 mph speed limit. If stopped do
the following:
1. stay calm, take your time
2. ask for name and badge number, write these down, do not surrender your drivers license
3. let cop know you are calling Sr. Villalejos, Sub-director de Policia, at 613-100-1910
4. insist that you go to the station NOW and deal with the fine
5. Since the police office is reportedly closed on Sunday, travel thru Ciudad Constitution on M-Sat.
6. remain calm, confident and clear. Follow thru.
7. Drive in the right hand lane and look local, don't make eye contact with a cop.
8. Let every one you know that there is a serious problem with police extortion on the ONLY highway that connects Baja N with Baja S and that each day
the city of Ciudad Constitution loses thousands of dollars in lost revenue because of this.
Thanks to those who are posting their experiences with Ciudad Constitution. I hope that Nomads will continue to post their experiences on this thread.
This thread has for me settled a long term discussion on Nomads on the best method to use in confronting police extortion.
Iflyfish
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Hey Rick.....how about a card, business size, with a message in Español that says something to the effect:
-------
Thank you for your kind concern. Your suggestion that I pay the fine here would be a big help to me and I appreciate that.
Unfortunately, you and I disagree on the infraction and I will have to discuss the issue with a judge.
If you would be so kind as to lead the way to the station, I'll follow.
If the station is closed, I'll wait. We can wait together.
Thank You.
---------------
Roadside negotiations will be cut to a minimum. Hand the cop this card and go mute. Remember.....drooling helps.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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First off, we must remind ourselves that at this moment CdC is suffering badly, it's a quintessential example of total failure, like many cities there
is a failure in the government to manage the budget, there exists massive deficit, there is massive theft of money and now nearly total failure of the
systems of government, no garbage nor water service. Regular city services no longer exist. This isn't that unique as many cities across Mexico and
USA are in the same or near circumstances so it should come as no surprise, certainly there are many forces that have created and allowed these
failures and those go to the highest and lowest levels.
If you find yourself in a circumstance facing an unfair charge by obviously corrupt police, you must be aware that these things can only occur because
we allow them and in fact our actions either support these failures entirely or our actions do not support them. Each person is all powerful to allow
and participate in corruption whether minor or severe or not. The act of corruption requires two people, the instigator and the participant.
If you have a set of values that considers corruption part of life then you will likely rationalize the payments for false charges to the extortion
guys in Cdc or anywhere and you probably do this elsewhere in your life as well. If you have a set of values that doesn't allow for corruption and
participation you simply won't participate.
Here are a few things to remember, an extortionist is opportunistic, they exploit emotions in particular fear, however a corrupt cop lives with more
fear than any of person of higher morals. Keep this in mind. If you simply do not participate, do not play into fear, do not allow yourself to have
fear or play into the relationship, it will go nowhere.
For example, does anyone think that a corrupt cop will continue to harass nice moral people forever? Do you think they would actually harm you? Or
actually escalate their games toward the scrutiny of others? They will never do that as of today the entire city if nor the nation and continent of
North America knows about corruption in CdC, and they understand in their present consciousness that the have two choices participate in corruption
toward the further destruction of society or simply not participate.
All that said, the method you use is your choice, but simply put, calmness, politeness and refusal to participate while being understanding of the
plight of those who do participate will bring a quick end to demands of extortion. They bad guys always run quickly from goodness and displays of
compassion and forgiveness because that is the opposite of what they create around them.
Iflyfish suggestions are excellent. To add to that any thing you do which is the opposite of participation will bring a quick end to extortion. And
remember anyone who does participate is an equal participant who hurts the entire community as well.
A few things I do which work everytime are in general tangental replies to corrupt cops:
Be very polite, patient and understanding of the role of the extortionist - these are sad people
Never ever acknowledge the false accusation-nor demands for money, never ever
Talk about food and recipes and flavors-alot
Talk about the history of Mexico, the history of the city in great detail
Talk about family, introduce yourself ask direct personal questions and listen for the answer
Talk about specific details about the current state of affairs in a kind and understanding manner
Say have a nice a day and tell them they can go now, say goodbye, give them a chance to leave by using pauses, kind gestures associated with saying
goodbye etc...
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desertcpl
Super Nomad
Posts: 2396
Registered: 10-26-2008
Location: yuma,az
Member Is Offline
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got a question
It has been brought up before about making a copy of your drivers licence then laminating it.. are you also required to hand them your pass port or
pass card if they ask for it?
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karenintx
Senior Nomad
Posts: 538
Registered: 3-16-2008
Location: CSL
Member Is Offline
Mood: Living The Dream
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For what it is worth there is an article in the G/G about "Federal Police Rotate Comandantes". I realize that in C/C it is the local police however
in the article quotes the new Comandeante Martin Armenta:
"The Federal Police are not allowed to ask for your passport, and although you need to produce your driver license and registration, they may not
take them. They can take no papers off you. They can jot down your VIN number and your license plate number, which they call in over a CB radio and
give you a ticket, which you pay online. No, you do not go to the police station as they often threaten you must."
Hopefully everything that was in the article is true and Comandeante Armenta is here to help end some of the extortion within the Federal Police that
is in our area. You can bet we will keep a copy of this issue in the car with the name of the Comandante highlighted in yellow.
Dennis...great suggestion, I vote for the business card. Here is website that business cards are free...just pay for s/h fee. Ours cost $5.67 USD
for 250 cards. Thinking of ordering cards in both Spanish and English...just in case the policeman only wants to communicate in English!
http://www.vistaprint.com
Hopefully someone can find out the "real" procedures for the local police...knowledge is power.
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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DENNIS' SUGGESTION
Gracias por su preocupación sincera. Su sugerencia que pago la multa aquí sería una ayuda muy grande para mí y yo lo aprecio mucho.
Desafortunadamente, usted y yo tenemos diferencia de opinion sobre la infracción y quiero hablar con el juez sobre esto. Si usted sería tan amable
para ponerte en camino para la estación de policia, yo te sigo en mi vehiculo para hablar con el juez. Si el juez no se encuentra en este momento,
espero aqui contigo hasta que se pone desponible. Muchas Gracias.
Is my translation about right?
[Edited on 8-4-2010 by ELINVESTIG8R]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
Gracias por su preocupación sincera. Su sugerencia que pago la multa aquí sería una ayuda muy grande para mí y yo lo aprecio mucho.
Desafortunadamente, usted y yo tenemos diferencia de opinion sobre la infracción y quiero hablar con el juez sobre esto. Si usted sería tan amable
para ponerte en camino para la estación de policia, yo te sigo en mi vehiculo para hablar con el juez. Si el juez no se encuentra en este momento,
espero aqui contigo hasta que se pone desponible. Muchas Gracias.
Is my translation about right?
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Looks good to me, David, but I ain't no experto.
Any experts wanna proofread this?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Thanks, Karen.
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oladulce
Super Nomad
Posts: 1625
Registered: 5-30-2005
Location: bcs
Member Is Offline
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My friend related his experience after receiving a real infraction in Constitución- he was sited for not wearing his seat belt. The officer took his
driver's license and instructed him to go to the police station. There he met with the transito judge and he paid his fine.
The officer followed up a while later with his driver's license.
I don't know if this is the procedure for all municipal police, or just in Cd C, but it seems to differ from the info that Karen posted about Federale
procedures.
Passports or immigration documents aren't requested during a routine traffic stop, at least not in Comondú.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oladulce
The officer took his driver's license and instructed him to go to the police station. There he met with the transito judge and he paid his fine.
The officer followed up a while later with his driver's license.
I don't know if this is the procedure for all municipal police, or just in Cd C, but it seems to differ from the info that Karen posted about Federale
procedures.
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That's the way they did things years ago in Ensenada. Maybe still do. I don't know. Nothing stays the same for very long around here.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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bump
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ncampion
Super Nomad
Posts: 1238
Registered: 4-15-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
Mood: Retired and Loving it
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Well, we safely made it both South and North through Constitution last week on a trip from Loreto to La Paz. Going South, we decided to use the right
side lanes and just be very watchful, with the intent of disputing any "bogus" pullover. Of course nothing happened, in fact we didn't even see a
single cop truck the whole time. On the return trip we wanted to try the big side road the the East that was mentioned. Found it with no trouble,
took it all the way to the North end of town, right past the Police station, turned left and got back to Hwy 1. Now we know where the police station
is and what looks like a good alternative to the nerve racking experience of driving through that town. Obviously we didn't stop to spend any money
on food, gas or other things - although I would like to feel comfortable doing that in the future.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
Member Is Offline
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Thanks for the post ncampion, much appreciated. Glad you felt confident about how to deal with police extortion in Ciudad Constitution if need be.
Also good to know where the police station is.
I hope others will also post their experience. After many years of discussion as to the best way to deal with police extortion it appears that a
successful model has emerged.
If you are stopped by a policeman in CC and they try to extort money from you , this approach that has been used successfully to stop this crime.
Come to a complete stop at ALL intersections, look both ways to make sure no pedestrians in cross walks. Follow the 18 mph speed limit. If stopped do
the following:
1. stay calm, take your time
2. ask for name and badge number, write these down, do not surrender your drivers license
3. let cop know you are calling Sr. Villalejos, Sub-director de Policia, at 613-100-1910
4. insist that you go to the station NOW and deal with the fine
5. Since the police office is reportedly closed on Sunday, travel thru Ciudad Constitution on M-Sat.
6. remain calm, confident and clear. Follow thru.
7. Drive in the right hand lane and look local, don't make eye contact with a cop.
8. Let every one you know that there is a serious problem with police extortion on the ONLY highway that connects Baja N with Baja S and that each day
the city of Ciudad Constitution loses thousands of dollars in lost revenue because of this.
Iflyfishasaproudnomad
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3507
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
Member Is Offline
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Baja Onion posted by Vags
Repeating info discussed here months ago. Anyone with anything new, please let us know.
_____________________
Police contact in Ciudad Constitucion To Report Extortion (Courtesy Vagabundos publication, Chubasco, Jan/Feb 2011) - Dear Vags:
I would like to give you some very important information you need regarding traffic tickets in Ciudad Constitucion. After a meeting with the Director
of the Police in Loreto, I had the opportunity to express the problem with the police in Constitution who are asking tourists for money, especially if
they are driving car rentals. He was very supportive and immediately called the Constitution Director of the police.
I made the general claim to him on behalf of my American/ Canadian clients, friends and tourists, because as a Mexican I feel responsible to help with
this injustice. He told me if anybody has problems of this kind they should say to the police officers to call: Licenciado Miguel Angel Villalejo, the
Director of the police in Constitution, and let them know that you have his private cellular number in case you need to call him anytime for 24 hours.
(I'm not publishing his cellular number for obvious reasons but I will be happy to provide it in case it is needed). Or call the 066 number and
generate an official report.
He apologizes to the American and Canadian community of Loreto and invites everyone to report this kind of situation. Don't give any money to the
police officers, but take the license plate, vehicle number and name of the officer. I hope this helps. Dia Morales, 135-2431. (Forwarded by Lynn
Hammon in Loreto). - www.vagabundos.com
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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BajaNomad
Super Administrator
Posts: 4999
Registered: 8-1-2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: INTP-A
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
Repeating info discussed here months ago. |
And in the past two days another thread on it as well....
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=50308
[Edited on 1-16-2011 by BajaNomad]
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
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