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cajhawk
Junior Nomad
Posts: 64
Registered: 11-16-2004
Location: Ramona, CA
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I think you are looking in the wrong direction. The 150 or so homeowners 7 miles away in LB are not deeply impacting the road/street project for the
town of Loreto. It may in the future, but it is in the distant future. I think Mr. Butterfield has already "put his money where his mouth is" by
donating 1% of ALL revenue from homes to the Loreto Bay Foundation. $800,000 went toward the building of the new hospital in town where the benefit is
definitely not for the part time vacationer. The new building at the park was donated as well by labor and materials from LB.
Environmental impact I can understand the argument, but from an economic and 'good neighbor' standpoint I think that LB has gone out of their way.
They use the local restaurants instead of keeping everyone cloistered for catered events, they use local taxis instead of a much cheaper bus/shuttle
service etc. Local street and sewer mismanagement is not LB's fault, nor should they be the solution IMHO.
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by cajhawk
I think you are looking in the wrong direction. The 150 or so homeowners 7 miles away in LB are not deeply impacting the road/street project for the
town of Loreto. It may in the future, but it is in the distant future. I think Mr. Butterfield has already "put his money where his mouth is" by
donating 1% of ALL revenue from homes to the Loreto Bay Foundation. $800,000 went toward the building of the new hospital in town where the benefit is
definitely not for the part time vacationer. The new building at the park was donated as well by labor and materials from LB.
Environmental impact I can understand the argument, but from an economic and 'good neighbor' standpoint I think that LB has gone out of their way.
They use the local restaurants instead of keeping everyone cloistered for catered events, they use local taxis instead of a much cheaper bus/shuttle
service etc. Local street and sewer mismanagement is not LB's fault, nor should they be the solution IMHO. |
That was Old Hippie's suggestion that Butterfield should pay. I was responding to Capt Mike's specific question of
"Why should LB subsidize city utilities publics works projects?"
But...cajhawk, I think you should look a little deeper at what the Loreto Bay Foundation is funding. I suggest you read their annual report. And as
for the hospital...it's a small amount of money that gives them a better sales pitch for those who ask about health care. How do you know it's not
for people who have money to pay? Will they accept the social security patient or the patient with no funds? What's happening with recruiting
specialists, which is what Loreto needs, to work in the hospital?
There is a projection of a lot more than 150 residents, not to speak of workers, who will use Loreto streets and do already use Loreto water and
sewer.
Just a small thing, but if LB uses local taxis, what are all those LB vans I see transporting people all over town? And if LB uses the local
restaurants, etc...then they are in fact using the roads.
Mike is right, things like actual contributions to existing and future infrastructure improvements should have been negotiated at the time the
development was proposed. Should probably also have negotiated a percentage of low income housing for Loretanos as well...LB would have then stood
some small chance of becoming an authentic Mexican village.
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backninedan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 865
Registered: 3-8-2003
Location: Loreto
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Cajhawk, are you employed by loreto bay by any chance?
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elizabeth
I don't think this is a dubious rebound...just an observation.
It is not at all unusual, or to my mind, unreasonable for a city, town, etc. to expect a new developer to contribute to the existing infrastructure
which they are using...water, sewer, roads, schools, etc. |
Close, but not completely accurate. What IS common is for developers who are building large numbers of units to contribute to the expansion of the
infrastructure that their development will require.
[Edited on 9-19-2007 by Roberto]
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
melo roos |
Mello Roos are usually paid for by the homeowners. As you said, they are
taxes.
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jerry
Super Nomad
Posts: 1354
Registered: 10-10-2003
Location: loreto
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in the USA its called systems development charge its paid by the new home owner weather he knows it or not
jerry and judi
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by elizabeth
I don't think this is a dubious rebound...just an observation.
It is not at all unusual, or to my mind, unreasonable for a city, town, etc. to expect a new developer to contribute to the existing infrastructure
which they are using...water, sewer, roads, schools, etc. |
Close, but not completely accurate. What IS common is for developers who are building large numbers of units to contribute to the expansion of the
infrastructure that their development will require.
[Edited on 9-19-2007 by Roberto] |
I obviously should have added the word improvement to the sentence on contribution to existing infrastructure...that was the intent and meaning of
the paragraph in the context of why LB should pay to improve the roads.
There actually are contributions to existing infrastructure that simply allow you to buy in...for instance water meters and sewer connections. Here,
in Stinson Beach, it will cost you $17,500 to buy a water meter...which will allow you to access the existing infrastructure. Costs of improvement
will come down the road!
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldhippie
| Quote: | Originally posted by edinnopolo
The structure you see on the right of Don's pic. is the round block wall build around the pump station. Like Pam says, the stink there is horrendous
and this is the Mexican way to solve it. Hide it.
Pretty hard to wall-in a stink. |
The "Mexican way" is due to the lack of funds and perhaps expertise in small towns. King Butterfield should put some money where his mouth is. But,
it's still a bit early for the winter marketing blitz. No need to finish repairs before the frostbacks arrive. |
Why should LB subsidize city utilities publics works projects?
i was going to say, you wouldn't see this kind of civil works management there. Oh wait..........i see it now....tax the rico developers to pay for
the town's infrastructure. Yeah, that's the ticket.....wealth re distribution. That should work, what's another $100K to add to the price of a condo,
why the average fat cat buying one could care less........cause he's probably rich.
ok.........i am ready to receive dubious rebounds now. |
Where else is Loreto's city Government going to get the money it needs?
Plus they probably think Loreto Bay Company is rich, maybe they're right. Tough to sell houses when the streets are the sewers. Mordida, extortion,
it's the Mexican way. Tough and effective.
Just a thought.
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
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Mood: muted
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I bet the streets are getting cleaned up and a new outfall pipe has been installed from the sewage treatment plant out to the marine preserve.
Meglamaniac Butterfield has a full page, multi-color Loreto Bay ad in the Sep 17 issue of Newsweek. No ad in the Sep 24 issue.
The ad is titled "Redefining Seaside Living"
"soul-stirring beauty"
"majestic......mountains"
"enchanting Old World town"
They've dropped the "authentic Mexican" BS but are still touting the "largest sustainable development in North America" lie.
"Homes start from the $400s."
I guess leaving off the three ending zeros reduces the sticker shock.
[Edited on 9-25-2007 by oldhippie]
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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the only ones who are "shocked" are the ones who can't afford it hipster.
want some cheeze whiz with that whine of yours?......
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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At a time when it's fairly obvious the LBC development is not what it claims, not sustainable at all, poorly lacking infrastructure, no waste water
treatment, inadequate water source for the planned development cycles, close box housing, with no space for living in a manner which would benefit
from/for the surrounding environment etc... I think its time to drop the condescending attitude toward Ol Hippie and the those who have asked simple
and obvious questions.
Clearly Mike you do not have the best interests of the community or the best interests of fututre buyers in mind. Therefore Mike you fall into another
category, that of the shill, your hollow words are spoken without serious merit or consideration for the real value of the land as an historic and
beautiful space or the value of a dollar and its affect.
Try for a moment and imagine the pain your own parents or children would feel if they found their 400k lost in the mire of LBC and reconsider your
pithy commentary.
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rhintransit
Super Nomad
Posts: 1588
Registered: 9-4-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
the only ones who are "shocked" are the ones who can't afford it hipster.
want some cheeze whiz with that whine of yours?......
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quote Clearly Mike you do not have the best interests of the community or the best interests of fututre buyers in mind. Therefore Mike you fall into
another category, that of the shill, your hollow words are spoken without serious merit or consideration for the real value of the land as an historic
and beautiful space or the value of a dollar and its affect.
AMEN gnukid and thank you! Mike's vested interest is clear from his tag line.
reality\'s never been of much use out here...
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
Member Is Offline
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I have always made it clear how I feel about Loreto Bay....I hate the project. However, I don't see any reason why they should pay one cent towards
this mess. They are in Nopolo south of town. The City of Loreto, whether for financial reasons or just bad planning, decided to tear up their two
main streets at the same time. Thus, they hurt the business' on both sides of both streets. At the same time they decided to repair the launch
ramp---all during the height of the tourists season. There was no logical reason that I could see for the mess the City caused its citizens--nor any
logical reason for Loreto Bay to help them clean up their mess. Baja Nomads insulting each other does nothing to solve the problems in Loreto. We
should try to stand united as much as possible on our opinions here.
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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edinnopolo
Nomad
Posts: 138
Registered: 5-1-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: laid back
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
At a time when it's fairly obvious the LBC development is not what it claims, not sustainable at all, poorly lacking infrastructure, no waste water
treatment, inadequate water source for the planned development cycles, close box housing, with no space for living in a manner which would benefit
from/for the surrounding environment etc... I think its time to drop the condescending attitude toward Ol Hippie and the those who have asked simple
and obvious questions.
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Well said Gnukid.
From now on I'll consider you just Gnu and will drop the "kid". You deserve it
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by backninedan
Cajhawk, are you employed by loreto bay by any chance? |
Did you ever get a response? Did I miss it?
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oldhippie
Banned
Posts: 742
Registered: 6-25-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: muted
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| Quote: | Originally posted by capt. mike
the only ones who are "shocked" are the ones who can't afford it hipster.
want some cheeze whiz with that whine of yours?......
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You might want to stop laughing.
Your website is in violation of the conditions of use of the thawte trusted site seal. Seems that you have bought a SSL certificate but you haven't
used it. The loan information form is sending personal information in plain text over the Internet. Very poor style Captain Mike.
Let's see, what should I do about that??
http://www.carefreepartner.com/ApplyNow/tabid/5409/Default.a...
Oh yeah, I like how this sentence on your website starts off:
"Due to the strengthening of the housing market in the United States....."
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Hip one, don't be so hard on Mike. He wears a lot of hats. Probably very busy arranging that special insurance for the Screaming Airlines (the
passengers are screaming?) that covers strangers who pay for his gas as though he was a licensed charter -- to be covered in Mexico, on any dirt
strip. Wow, what a guy!
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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What are we but a nomadic group of friends who simply write to each other to cojole, encourage, discourage and entertain each other. We have little to
offer but words, here. So, if Mike is going to spout, someone can and shall spout back back, obviously with little outcome other than the
semi-anonymous, historical, textual one, which a user's forum can offer.
Flame on!
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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Loreto contruction. Pretty funny name for a subject that is actually deconstruction.
Well there´s another victim of this road work.
The Plaza Loreto Hotel which is on Paseo Hidalgo and the building I'm renting my ofice in has just put up the red and black flag that signifies a
strike. Clearly the hotel has lost business during this fiasco. fortunately I was here when the strike went into effect so that I could prevent them
from locking down our office doors after explaining that my business is not related to the hotel. We're closed for the season but the strike has no
effect on us other than that I can no longer enter through the lobby for the time being. I certainly hope the employees, the sindicato and ownership
can relolve their differences quickly. 
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backninedan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 865
Registered: 3-8-2003
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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Elizabeth,
No answer, which may in itself be the answer??
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