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bajaandy
Senior Nomad
Posts: 769
Registered: 2-7-2004
Location: North County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Adventurous
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Interesting point Nena. No matter which way the news is slanted, someone will find a reason to be upset. I couldn't agree with you more.
As for the issue at hand, I do believe that Barry is right in that what was said and what he heard on CNN is indeed a warning from the state
department.
HOWEVER.... (major caveat here) I think it was a very non-specific, general warning. I believe that what the state dept. is referring to is NOT the
specific issue that happened at Quatros Casas. CNN (like any other news agency) simply decided that we're not intelligent enough to make our own
inferences so they did it for us. (Corroborating evidence sells more newspapers. Who cares if it's relevant or not.)
Bottom line, make your own informed decisions no matter where you travel.
On Edit: Don't get me wrong... I do believe that this kind of thing does need exposure, and I'm glad to see that news agencies are doing so.
[Edited on 11-19-2007 by bajaandy]
subvert the dominant paradigm
"If you travel with a man, you must either fall out with him or make him your good friend."
JBL Noel
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elizabeth
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-30-2004
Location: Loreto, BCS
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O.K. Stop, and read.
I never said there weren't any problems.
I never said that there shouldn't be a State Dept Advisory.
I said that CNN was incorrect...there is no state department advisory that would warn anyone of the problem that you raised. The only advisory is so
general that it is no help at all.
CNN (and I'm sure FOX wouldn't do any better) was not providing appropriate information by saying that there was a State Department Advisory dealing
with camping, robbery and rape.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
It's about time.
The Baja State Department won't give a comment? What insolent crap. They go into their denial mode with the message that, "We don't have any idea
what you're talking about." That's what they've done for years and will continue to do untill the American traveling public finds a way to come
together and demand accountability. It isn't so much the felon who violates the tourist, it's the government that says it isn't happening.
That is unacceptible, even collusive.
We need a website that will address the issues at hand. A board that will give us a voice. One that will publish our complaints and the pains that
we have endured.
Anybody out there who can facilitate this? |
Dennis,
Don't you think that our BajaNomad website serves the purpose of addressing the issues at hand? I think that it gets a wider viewership than any that
could be set up specifically on this issue. Same goes for the surfer websites in which this was reported; they are specialized and don't have the
wider general exposure that BajaNomad has. What ideas do you have that I am missing?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaandy
Bottom line, make your own informed decisions no matter where you travel. |
Based on what?
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Ok, OK I am sorry I made a comment about FOX NEWS vs CNN, etc.------FORGET THAT I SAID THAT-------it was a spurious issue-----
-------lets concentrate on the real problem-------how do we get the Mexican govt. attention so that they will attempt to get a handle on this problem
of increasing crime against the gringos that visit Baja-------?
--------that is the objective, and I for one, am glad that the USA News media is addressing OUR concerns, and making it an "issue", no-matter what
motivates them (that is a separate issue, and I should have NEVER brought it up)
Sigh
barry
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bajaandy
Senior Nomad
Posts: 769
Registered: 2-7-2004
Location: North County
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Mood: Adventurous
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaandy
Bottom line, make your own informed decisions no matter where you travel. |
Based on what? |
Good question. I can't speak for you, but I think there's plenty of information available from various sources that with a healthy dose of common
sense filtration will allow me to make my decisions. But that's just me. Your milage may vary.
subvert the dominant paradigm
"If you travel with a man, you must either fall out with him or make him your good friend."
JBL Noel
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
[Dennis,
Don't you think that our BajaNomad website serves the purpose of addressing the issues at hand? |
No Tony, I don't. That's not what it's supposed to do. It does what it does best, promote Baja. It only tolerates idiots like me.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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This is a first for me. I agree with almost everything Dennis has stated in this thread and I think he's right on about his concerns and analysis.
Three minutes on CNN is just not enough.
I don't watch much TV these days but I believe there are many 60 minute offshoots shown daily now. These surfers should continue their quest to
publicize this to a broader public with more air time. I don't think it's big enough for 6o minutes but the other shows could well be interested in
all this. And once the air time increases the state departments will come around.
The best thing nomads can do is to encourage these people to speak out and to somehow make programming directors aware of these stories.
I think things will get worse before they get better, though.
That's my 2 cents.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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The federal goverment is deep in a war against organized crime and is barely holding on, anybody that thinks that the federal goverment cares about a
CNN report or a State department advisory is not living in reality. They will first focus all their resources on organized crime, and THEN they will
adress other problems.
The situation wont change for at least 4 to 6 years.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
The federal goverment is deep in a war against organized crime and is barely holding on, anybody that thinks that the federal goverment cares about a
CNN report or a State department advisory is not living in reality. They will first focus all their resources on organized crime, and THEN they will
adress other problems.
The situation wont change for at least 4 to 6 years. |
Why 4 to six years?
Well, screw that question.
What do you know about private contractors in Mexico being a requirement for the one point whatever billion dollar package from the US to Mexico for
drug interdiction? Have you heard anything about this?
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bajalera
Super Nomad
Posts: 1875
Registered: 10-15-2003
Location: Santa Maria CA
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Fat chance of any surfer dude getting featured on CNN because he was robbed. I assume the woman was attractive, since pretty women in various types
of distress is what passes as CNN news these days..
\"Very few things happen at the right time, and the rest never happen at all. The conscientious historian will correct these defects.\" -
Mark Twain
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
[Dennis,
Don't you think that our BajaNomad website serves the purpose of addressing the issues at hand? |
No Tony, I don't. That's not what it's supposed to do. It does what it does best, promote Baja. It only tolerates idiots like me.
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Dennis,
I am not saying that it is BajaNomad's purpose to affect change. What I am saying is that, because of its wide exposure on all things Baja and the
intense debate on this issue, it may serve to affect change by its very existence. Do you know of another website that is as thorough or informative?
You were proposing to organize to set up one, I think. I do think we already are that voice. Whether or not it is effective, I don't know.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
You were proposing to organize to set up one, I think. I do think we already are that voice. Whether or not it is effective, I don't know.
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I don't think so Tony. It's not near as explosive as I vision it should be. Besides, Doug is probably on the verge of explaining guidelines, as
he should.
I'm thinking of something much more confrontational. OFF TOPIC as Pablum.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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The Mexican government wont act overtly on the CNN story or other like it NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE THEIR HANDS FULL WITH THE CARTEL ALREADY, but because
it would tacitly acknowledge that the problem is bigger than they would have the world believe. It's a political decision.
And it's probably a political decision that the State Dept. has still not issued a stronger warning about northern Baja. This, despite the incidents
that have surfaced on this board and others. Remember back to when the State of Oaxaca was paralyzed by the occupation of persons against the
incumbent governor or mayor (cant remember which)? There was a State Dept warning about travel in this area........yet I believe only one free-lance
journalist lost his life during this time. Compare that to the level of crime in northern Baja over the last year and ask yourself "why no advisory"?
It's not like the people fighting the cartels have no time to address the issue with the surfer and his girl, Jesse. It's just part of the smoke
screen.
From an official standpoint, no news is, indeed, good news.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
From an official standpoint, no news is, indeed, good news. |
Good points Hook...all of the above.
I have to take exception on one point, the travel advisory. The US put one out on Oaxaca because it served the Mexican government's best interest.
The Mexican government is who didn't want outsiders, for many reasons.
The border region is becoming far more dangerous to Americans than Oaxaca ever could have been but the US government won't tell us that. It's not
that they don't know. For Christs sake, BajaNomad knows. It's not a secret.
They won't take a big stand on this because it may hurt tourism in Mexico. This stance is best for Mexico. Best for tourism.
The United States is more concerned with Mexico's tourism than the safety of her own people. We're not trading partners, we're just citizens.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Placating Mexico by sacrificing American lives for the benefits of trading? Sounds too cynical to me. In fact I think it should be the other way
around. Our government should pressure Mexico to do something about the situation using economic pressure as the stick.
This whole thing is like a pot of water over a fire. It's going to start to boil pretty soon. Statistics may not do it. A good human interest tragedy
could really help to get national attention.
I mean for gosh sakes, if the media could get so worked up over that whole thing about getting that kid back to cuba (Elio Gonzales or something like
that) don't these baja crimes deserve more attention?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
In fact I think it should be the other way around. Our government should pressure Mexico to do something about the situation using economic pressure
as the stick.
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Right. It SHOULD. It should have done a lot of things that reflect an interest in her own but, didn't. You wonder why I'm cynical?
Our country won't pressure Mexico on anything that might jeopardize a flow of oil coming north or goods going south. You think a little chickenchit
surfer rape is going to interfere with this agreement? It SHOULD but, it won't.
I am cynical. You're right. No relief in sight.
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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Maybe the US government should do something to prevent the 234 murders, 550 forcible rapes, 4,363 robberies, and 6,047 aggravated assaults that
occurred in 2006 in Phoenix Arizona, a city of about 1.5 million, if they have all this power to prevent crime.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/06prelim/t4al_ca.htm
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
The Mexican government wont act overtly on the CNN story or other like it NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE THEIR HANDS FULL WITH THE CARTEL ALREADY, but because
it would tacitly acknowledge that the problem is bigger than they would have the world believe. It's a political decision.
And it's probably a political decision that the State Dept. has still not issued a stronger warning about northern Baja. This, despite the incidents
that have surfaced on this board and others. Remember back to when the State of Oaxaca was paralyzed by the occupation of persons against the
incumbent governor or mayor (cant remember which)? There was a State Dept warning about travel in this area........yet I believe only one free-lance
journalist lost his life during this time. Compare that to the level of crime in northern Baja over the last year and ask yourself "why no advisory"?
It's not like the people fighting the cartels have no time to address the issue with the surfer and his girl, Jesse. It's just part of the smoke
screen.
From an official standpoint, no news is, indeed, good news. |
Trust me, they are barely managing the cartel issue, they dont have time or resources for anything more.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
Placating Mexico by sacrificing American lives for the benefits of trading? Sounds too cynical to me. In fact I think it should be the other way
around. Our government should pressure Mexico to do something about the situation using economic pressure as the stick.
This whole thing is like a pot of water over a fire. It's going to start to boil pretty soon. Statistics may not do it. A good human interest tragedy
could really help to get national attention.
I mean for gosh sakes, if the media could get so worked up over that whole thing about getting that kid back to cuba (Elio Gonzales or something like
that) don't these baja crimes deserve more attention? |
Economic pressure? for christ sake, this is reality, we buy more from the US than Italy, Spain, France and Germany combined, we are a huge trading
partner, just like China is, you just cant go around doing that anymore. This is another time, the days when things like that could be done are gone,
for ever, people need to start accepting that reality and stop dreaming and living in the past.
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