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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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I think that this is one of the best threads I have seen on the Board (other than one short post), and I am really impressed with the quality of
"thought" displayed.
I have learned a lot, and there is a lot for "thought" here.
Way to go fellow NOMADS!!!
barry
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Roberto
Banned
Posts: 2162
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
Al G is right....
NEVER stop in Norte.
Never drive at night.
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Neat trick in the winter
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cpg
Nomad
Posts: 262
Registered: 4-10-2006
Location: Livermore, Ca.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Roberto
| Quote: | Originally posted by CaboRon
Al G is right....
NEVER stop in Norte.
Never drive at night.
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Neat trick in the winter |
The problem is getting stopped by guys with guns not stopping.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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| Quote: | Originally posted by larry
It is nice to read a thoughtful discussion about historical origins of social and political attitudes (as opposed to the insults that are traded
elsewhere in this forum).
I question, however, the assumption here that Baja has become dangerous for gringos. Maybe this is true, but I tend to think that it is not. It
seems that the natural tendency is to post horror stories here, just as those type of stories tend to dominate the news media in any locality in the
world. Normal, peaceful everyday life is what we all expect and it generally isn't reported in the newspaper or on this board.
So here is my firsthand experience. Since 2000, I have camped every winter on the Sea of Cortez in Gonzaga, Bahia de los Angeles, north of San
Felipe, and visited Mision San Borja, Bahia Las Animas, and other spots in Northern Baja. I have stayed at motels in San Felipe and Ensenada and
stocked up on supplies in Mexicali, San Felipe and Ensenada. Each trip lasted about 10 days.
Overall, I had a great trip each time, witnessed no crimes of any kind, was not stopped by the police, was treated in a friendly manner at all
military checkpoints, and was helped by two young men once when I got stuck in sand by the roadside in BOLA. That's it.
I don't dispute that other people have had bad experiences. Most of the time these experiences are real and unprovoked crimes. I imagine that once
in awhile they are a result of cultural misunderstandings. But that aside, hearsay reports on this forum do not necessarily mean that there is a
crimewave against gringos in Baja. |
Good points but the issue is not everyone who goes to baja is going to get highjacked, in fact the two people who I know that did have that happen had
been happy baja travelers for years with a lot of experience. So lets try to figure out the numbers, like is it 7 reported experiences this year and
how many people driving through BCN are we talking about? If it is 7 out of 100,000 or maybe even 7 out of 500,000, you are right it is a small
occurence, but I truly hope that the numbers are not at 499,999 and I am next. I think to be on the receiving end of this experience could make for a
really bad day.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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I am also aware that the odds are still greatly in a traveler's favor of running the gauntlet.
But there is a large part of me that is saying "enough is enough" and wants to draw that line in the sand...........the "I am boycotting till further
notice" line.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Apples and Oranges
A student in colorado knows that he will soon be have the same earning power as those he now envies. A coloradan has the freedom to move to california
and make the same money if he chooses.
A Mexican lacks those opportunities. He can improve his lot by either robbing gringos or haivng them pay him for his services. Either way he can't
reach equality.
Maintaining that all that's necessary is better law enforcement is pretty narrow minded. As more Americans buy real estate in baja and the two
inequalities mix it stands to reason there will be more crime. You reduce crime by changing the need for it. Otherwise what you see as crime is seen
by the other side as a sort of Robin Hood syndrome - take from the rich and give to the poor.
The tourists that have been going to baja all these years are different than what's coming. We all lived out of our campers and trailer homes and felt
we were on an equal footing with them. Not so with the new tourists.
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Gadget
Senior Nomad
Posts: 851
Registered: 9-10-2006
Location: Point Loma CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Blessed with another day
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Great thread folks.
Pescador, that darn avatar makes me grin every time, too fun!
I've posted this before.
Stop taking the toll road to the border! At any time!
We just returned from another fantastic 16 days in Baja at the folks house in BoLA.
We got to Rosarito at around 3PM, took the FREE road to TJ and crossed in a little over 1 hour.
When you get to the avenida de los heros they have a ribbon up at the last traffic circle which makes you have to take a right and go east to the next
traffic circle, go all the way around it and come back, take a right and you are in line. This keeps that last traffic circle from getting corked
with cars. I did not see any set up that would put you into the hated diversion to Otay.
While in BoLA Les and I went down to camp Gecko and looked up Soulpatch and his lovely family. We had a wonderful talk and look forward to connecting
with them again here in our neighborhood.
One of the neighbors there at Gecko avoided a hijack on the toll road.
He was informed, saw what was going down, wrecked both of the dirt bags trucks, took a bullet in the thigh and got away. My kinda guy brother Tom!
My wife is already in the know that we will not be stopping for any unmarked "cop" car. They will have to wait for me to pull over inside a AMPM mini
market, shoot out all my tires or try and chase me down in the dirt before I stop.
But heh! That's not necessary cause I'm not driving through their gauntlet any more. Simple 
[Edited on 11-28-2007 by Gadget]
"Mankind will not be judged by their faults, but by the direction of their lives." Leo Giovinetti
See you in Baja
http://www.LocosMocos.com
Gadget |
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RonnieRockCod
Junior Nomad
Posts: 48
Registered: 6-28-2004
Location: San Doego
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Gnu Kid alluded to it. That some Mexicans believe we stole their lands. But the sad part of that thought is if Mexico owned Texas, New Mexico, Arizona
and California. Those states would be as poverty stricken as is the rest of Mexico. The Mexicans would be sneaking into Louisana, Arkansas, Oklahoma,
Colorado, Utah, and Nevada with a hope for a better life.
I believe we need a workable Bracero program. There would still be the Illegals but the Braceros would be able to work lawfully, pay taxes,
support their relatives in the South without the fear deportation.
To supress the crime along the border President Bush should threaten to close the borders to U. S. citizens desiring to enter Mexico. I think
that would end the violence, bribery and gangsterism. Yes, many innocent folks would suffer but you must take a strong stand. Look at the current
writers' strike. How many thousands innocents are suffering a payday loss because of their action ?
Please excuse me as I dismount from my soapbox. Good luck to all, RRC.
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8923
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Its Pole Line Road time
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My parents pushed me across the border in a baby stroller, they are too afraid to go now (in their mid 70s) since they got stopped in their motorhome
in San Felipe and had to pay a bribe.
As for me, leading large groups into Baja, I know there is definitely strength in numbers. 14 Jeeps surrounded a crooked cop in Tecate last week, and
he got angry and kicked all of us Jeepers out of town! If it werent for all of us, poor Glen would have had to pay $20 or $40 and would have been
upset by the whole situation. Instead, we scared the crooked cop and we all drove to San Felipe to laugh about it.
Moments after getting kicked out of Tecate, we stopped at La Rumorosa for a quick picture of our Jeeps:
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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Ken, you are absolutely right in traveling in numbers, as it runs off most trouble off. Too many witnesses and too many too many to shoot when
robbing large groups, so the crooks leave large groups alone. Saw some of your posts on your jeep trip and looked like you had a lot of fun. Thought
you were going to post some more photos of Columbia??? You were going to put them in the photo travel area---looked at the beauty contest on the
boats and a few beach shots and you indicated you had more to post hope you do. "No Worry No Hurry Just Fun"========== Later=====bajafun777
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8923
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Its Pole Line Road time
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After I returned from Colombia, I had roughly 3 1/2 days before the Baja Grande trip. So, I'm barely getting caught up on sleep, let alone posting my
photos. I hope to get this remedied by this weekend.
As for Baja, you can't be caught slipping, since people look to see if you are alone or not. Its definitely better to travel with 2 or 3 other
vehicles.
Another question: When the crooked cops ask you for your Drivers License/Registration, why not only offer a photo copy? Tell them your license was
lost and this is all you have. Tell them you are broke and out of $$, but you are aware that you can pay your fine across the border with that
bilingual ticket your friends in the Tijuana Tourism Office told you about. I paid $20 for cutting a driver off - yep, I did a good job of cutting
him off, and I nearly got rear ended, so the cop thought he was doing me a favor by stealing $20 from me. Next time, I'm not paying. I refuse to
give up my money to buy someone tacos and beer. If I get in trouble for it, I will post on BajaNomad and explain my story...
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
A student in colorado knows that he will soon be have the same earning power as those he now envies. A coloradan has the freedom to move to california
and make the same money if he chooses.
A Mexican lacks those opportunities. He can improve his lot by either robbing gringos or haivng them pay him for his services. Either way he can't
reach equality.
Maintaining that all that's necessary is better law enforcement is pretty narrow minded. As more Americans buy real estate in baja and the two
inequalities mix it stands to reason there will be more crime. You reduce crime by changing the need for it. Otherwise what you see as crime is seen
by the other side as a sort of Robin Hood syndrome - take from the rich and give to the poor.
The tourists that have been going to baja all these years are different than what's coming. We all lived out of our campers and trailer homes and felt
we were on an equal footing with them. Not so with the new tourists. |
I would agree with that theory but the flaw is that you are talking Jose Average Guy and that explains the feelings of envy and jealousy which gives
way to petty crime. That has been happening for years and all of us who have travelled here for years know about that. But the guys who are doing
the highjacking are probably not of that same breed and instead are, for lack of a better term, hardened criminals, who have no moral map for
guidance. So they make no distinction about whether you are driving a junker or a new car, it all represents an opportunity to make some cash and the
more stuff equals more cash. You, at that point, are a non-entity and whether or not you are black, white, red, brown, or somewhere inbetween,
actually makes no difference. Now we throw law enforcement into this equation and we have basically the only effective deterrent to crime which is to
make the consequences of bad behavior more painful than the gain of the robbery. If you doubt that, look carefully at the effects of the death
penalty in states where it has actually been used consistently.
Now I totally agree that the petty crime is a totally different ballgame and class envy is as good a justification as all the other excuses the
perpetrator uses and police action only has a small amount of influence on this type of crime.
An interesting thought comes to mind about petty crime and the fact that in the not too distant past (say in the 70's and 80's), it was almost
non-existent in the baja as well as on the mainland. I can remember forgetting fishing poles at the dock and having someone bring them by camp. Bet
that would happen today.
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jimgrms
Senior Nomad
Posts: 664
Registered: 9-30-2005
Location: oceanside ca
Member Is Offline
Mood: its always good
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Whenever i travel to baja 'the trips are mostly spur of the moment ( read lots of snoe in colorado ) so i just wait for other tourist to pass and
then follow the group . so far it has worked out
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jimgrms
Whenever i travel to baja 'the trips are mostly spur of the moment ( read lots of snoe in colorado ) so i just wait for other tourist to pass and
then follow the group . so far it has worked out |
I used that same technique last week while traveling south through the "corridor". After crossing the first toll booth, we pulled over and waited for
a group of three campers and followed them to Ensenada.
[Edited on 11-28-2007 by tripledigitken]
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Al G
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2647
Registered: 12-19-2004
Location: Todos Santos/Full time for now...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering what is next???
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This sounds like a good idea....maybe we can work on a official stop just across the border. When 3-5 vehicles are there then they leave...maybe the
tourism people can set this up on one side or the other...this sounds like a safety issue FDT...what do you think?
Edit...I finally hit the year of my birth in number of post
[Edited on 11-28-2007 by Al G]
Albert G
Remember, if you haven\'t got a smile on your face and laughter in your heart, then you are just a sour old fart!....
The most precious thing we have is life, yet it has absolutely no trade-in value.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
| Quote: | Originally posted by jimgrms
Whenever i travel to baja 'the trips are mostly spur of the moment ( read lots of snoe in colorado ) so i just wait for other tourist to pass and
then follow the group . so far it has worked out |
I used that same technique last week while traveling south through the "corridor". After crossing the first toll booth, we pulled over and waited for
a group of three campers and followed them to Ensenada.
[Edited on 11-28-2007 by tripledigitken] |
Doesn't the "we pulled over and waited...." part leave you vulnerable?
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Bajajack
Banned
Posts: 370
Registered: 5-20-2007
Location: Arizona
Member Is Offline
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It's gotten to the point you just about have to travel in a convoy to feel halfway safe, so whats the use in going.
After you pay USA prices for everything in baja and putting up with all the filth and other BS you encounter everyone would be better off staying
home, after all we have everything mexico has and then some, just my personal opinion.
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
| Quote: | Originally posted by jimgrms
Whenever i travel to baja 'the trips are mostly spur of the moment ( read lots of snoe in colorado ) so i just wait for other tourist to pass and
then follow the group . so far it has worked out |
I used that same technique last week while traveling south through the "corridor". After crossing the first toll booth, we pulled over and waited for
a group of three campers and followed them to Ensenada.
[Edited on 11-28-2007 by tripledigitken] |
Doesn't the "we pulled over and waited...." part leave you vulnerable?
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Just past the toll booths in the parking lot within 100' of the booths doesn't bother me, but I'm just a risk taker!
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