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Capt. George
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Posts: 2129
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don't matter Ralph, too far in the outback, "no malls, no gated communities"
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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rts551
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Ahh How true. Someone from this board (doesn't matter who) came roaring through one time. Hated the place because there were no bars or anything
to do at night. Like you say, no crime either. I'll take it any day - and without a worry!
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fulano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
fulano
do you visit Baja? |
Yes. Quite often, but not as often as I used to. Some of my relatives (by marriage) are Mexican. I have had long conversations with them about Mexico
and talked about things they would probably never discuss with a gabacho. Among the older generation, it is not considered polite to discuss politics
in Mexico, especially with a foreigner. Their attitudes about the crime rate in Mexico and the police are basically the same as those you've seen me
and other espouse...it sucks.
I used to have businesses in California and I employed many Mexicans. I also had some business dealings with affiliates in Mexico City. I have had
many discussions with my employees about the "real" Mexico. One of my managers was a former federale who was a bodyguard for the Chief of Police in DF
(back in the 1980's). I have had many conversations with him about how things really work in Mexico. You should think of Mexico as a movie set. From
the front, where they shoot the movie it looks like a bustling city. But walk behind the set and you see it is just a facade and the real structure is
nothing like the illusion.
Mexico is a paper democracy and its criminal justice system is an absolute perversion, when compared to American standards. Racism is tolerated and
ingrained at all levels in Mexican society, even in the language. You can go into any large Mexican business and the higher up you go, the whiter the
people are.
Can you imagine in the US -- in this day and age -- calling someone something like "La Negra", or "el Preito"? These names are used in Mexico without
a second thought. A common way to call somebody stupid is to say he is "muy indio".
I've said before here, if you happen to like Mexico that's fine with me. There are many fine people in Mexico. But you don't have to lie about how
things are. That is disingenuous.
No, I am not a "Good Samaritan", I just don't like BS. If you want to understand why you feel the way you do about Mexico, get yourself a good book on
psychology and look up "cognitive consonance". It would help you explain why on your way into your favorite bar for a Margarita, you can walk by that
little 4'6" indian woman trying to sell you some chicles, with one baby on her back and another suckling her teat and not even notice her.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
The chances of anyone on here being murdered, raped, robbed or assalted is about as good as being hit by lightning unless your involved in dark
dealings to begin with. |
You are just rationalizing.
Odds of being struck by lightning: 576,000 to 1
Odds of being killed by lightning: 2,320,000 to 1
Odds of being murdered, raped, robbed or assaulted in Mexico: 5:1
Remember, these odds are over a lifetime. |
Whoa! I have to challenge those statistics. Where did you get them?
Regarding lightning, I would think that most people being struck would be killed. Only a few very lucky people survive it.
Regarding odds..........Mexico, I certainly know personally, hundreds of people, both gringos and Mexican nationals who have never met with those
statistics. (5:1). Perhaps burglaries; label that crimes of opportunity, would meet that ratio, but murdered, raped, robbed or assaulted.....come on,
man!
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Capt. George
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fulano, excuse me.......
I lied about how things are? I think not. Please explain yourself.
I know about the town my wife and I have spent a very large part of the last five years living, safer and more tranquil then anywhere we've lived in
the past. Do I have concerns traveling, of course I do, but that is only way to get to our home in Baja Sur.
Mainland Mexico? I would not visit there again in my lifetime. Baja Sur? I will continue to visit as long as I am physically able.
Do I know of racism in Baja, yes I do, just spend a small amount of time in La Paz and race difference is easily noted. Spanish blood still rules.
Bypass an Indio women in need?, I have more beads, that my wife purchases from these less then fortunate people, then Michaels!
You're knowledge of Mexico is obviously more long lived and involved then mine, but we're not talking about Viet Nam here.
Adios cap'n g
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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fulano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Capt. George
I know about the town my wife and I have spent a very large part of the last five years living, safer and more tranquil then anywhere we've lived in
the past. Do I have concerns traveling, of course I do, but that is only way to get to our home in Baja Sur.
Mainland Mexico? I would not visit there again in my lifetime. Baja Sur? I will continue to visit as long as I am physically able.
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Well, Capt. I just gave you a short lesson in logic. It took me only a few posts to get you from "Mexico is good" to "My pueblo is good, Mexico is
bad".
There is a name for your problem. It is called "secundum quid", or the fallacy of hasty generalization. It occurs when you form a general rule by
examining only a few specific cases which aren't representative of all possible cases.
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
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Fulano,
You obviously have a less than stellar view of Baja and Mexico in general. With that said, why do you continue to visit here and post an
extraordinarliy high percentage of news items which highlight the problems of Mexico?
The main draw of this board is the love of traveling Baja. You don't seem to share that feeling. Posting news items is fine, but to almost
exclusively do so seems odd.
Where did you get that "5:1 statistic"? Am I just unique that in over 50 years of traveling in Mainland Mexico and Baja I have only had one incident
where money was taken from my backback while body surfing? I think I am closer to the rule rather than the exception.
You are obviously very bright, but you sure come off like you have an ax to grind. No?
Ken
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Capt. George
Super Nomad
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fulano
did not say Mexico was bad, said I would not travel through it again..Once was enough, found out there's not anything there I'm looking for.
We camped from Baja Sur north to Mexicali, south to Tepic and west to Chetumal, north to Cancun and back N/E to Brownsville..a total of four months on
the road....
I have experienced (in all my travels, mainland and Baja included, only one disconcerting incident) You seem to read into things what you will..
I whole heartedly agree with Ken. cap'n g
enjoy wherever it is you choose to be.
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
Am I going to stop going to Baja, no. The only thing that will stop me is if I can't afford the gas to get there. |
Yea, but the good thing is that once you cross the border, the gas is cheaper! Just save up enough to get from Bakersfield to San Ysidro. 
Yes, even here in peaceful, beautiful Bahia Asuncion we had an armed robbery---was reported right here. But the perp was from out-of-town----I think
he came up from the little peaceful town south of us, you know, the one that is like Abreeee o ???  What do a couple of you think???
Seriously, we don't bury our heads in the sand and have little use for statistics. We plan on continuing to drive back and forth until we can't drive
anymore. We just don't see it as that risky.
Now, ask me if I would fly here? Now, IMHO, all airplanes are risky. 
Lots of bad news on the board about Baja and I think it should all be reported----just for general knowledge sakes. Information is good and can and
has adjusted some of our travel styles.
Diane
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Skipjack Joe
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Well, I have to agree with fulano as it relates to mainland mexico and all of latin america.
One out of 5 get robbed or assaulted in a lifetime? During a 6 week trip to south america I was assaulted once and robbed twice. I've had 2 cameras
stolen while traveling through baja.
Racism in latin america? Absolutely. You have a better chance of getting a high paying job if you're white than a university education. Go to a bank
in peru and all tellers are white, but out on the street white people are relatively rare.
I think racism in Mexico is less widespread than it was just 20 years ago. In the 80's everyone on television was blond and looked european. You
wondered where they got these people. Nobody around you looked remotely like the people on the screen. But now actors seem to be more representative
of the nation.
The plight of the Indian people in Mexico is so obvious and really sad. You see them on street corners in the Yucatan selling trinkets and you realize
that these are Maya descendants - the one time masters of the new world. From masters to virtual beggars. The same is true of the Inca descendants.
But baja is different. A sunny place with a friendly disposition.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Statistics can be fun. Two statisticians went deer hunting, saw a big buck, stopped the truck, got out, one of em took a shot and hit 100 feet to the
left, the other guy grabbed the gun, shot and hit 100 feet to the right. The first guy said "We got him!" I try to keep that in mind -- especially
about fishing. I'm always delightfully surprised when I catch fish I thought somebody else already caught and cooked and ate.
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bancoduo
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Location: el carcel publico mazatlan sin.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe[/
But baja is different. A sunny place with a friendly disposition. |
How can you say that with a straight
face. You sound like a gringo time-share hawker in Cabo. 
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Capt. George
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we send all our banditos up to Ascuncion, that's how we keep it so peaceful way down here!
I'd come visit you up there but I'm afraid.... cap'n g
\"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men\" Plato
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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I'm puttin a fence up Diane!!!!!!!
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Gypsy Jan
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Hooray!
We have a new JR; just as combative and, a plus, classically educated, as well.
Let the skirmishes flourish.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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vandenberg
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
We have a new JR; just as combative and, a plus, classically educated, as well.
Let the skirmishes flourish. |
And who might that be, might I ask. 
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fulano
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Fulano,
You obviously have a less than stellar view of Baja and Mexico in general. With that said, why do you continue to visit here and post an
extraordinarliy high percentage of news items which highlight the problems of Mexico? |
Actually, I have fond memories of Baja. I’ve dived at BOLA. I used to fly into San Felipe when the airstrip was a dirt strip in the middle of town.
I’ve spent many a summer on the beaches between Rosarito and Ensenada. My dentist is still in Tijuana. But the old girl Baja has aged. Some people on
the board are “invested” in Baja and talk about her today as if it is still the same as it was 30-years ago. It’s like the teenager who shagged the
high school cheerleader under the bleachers talking about her 30-years later as if she hasn’t changed. Even though she now has false teeth and her
boobs hang down around her navel.
You want this board to be like those glossy throw away magazines you can find all over Baja extolling the virtues of Mexican real estate? There’s
another group here who want to tell it like it is, not like it was. There are a lot of people who want good, and current, information on Baja. They
don’t want to have to sort out the BS. If you look, the only time I really jump in hard is when somebody tells the BIG LIE.
It amazes me that some people here cannot see the irony in their own posts. Just a casual reading of a few days’ messages will produce a plethora of
posts from people with their own agenda demonstrating their own brand of irrationality:
- There’s the guy who sells Mexican Auto Insurance trying to tell us that the crime rate in San Diego is worse than in Baja.
- There’s the guy who loves and lives in Baja advising another to only drive during the daytime and use an old junker to not draw attention.
- There’s the guy who married an illegal alien woman from Mexico, whose marriage worked out good, advising us that we should have open borders.
- There’s the guy who built a new house in Loreto who put it on the market a year ago for $410,000 and now has the asking price down to $299,000.
- There’s the guy down in the Cabo area who has concertina wire all around his house contemplating whether the wire is to keep criminals out or keep
him in.
- There are endless comments from people who live in Baja about the ripoffs at gas pumps, ripoffs from propane vendors, ripoffs from polica.
All I'm saying is that people should tell it like it is.
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Gypsy Jan
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Mood: Depends on which way the wind is blowing
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Vandenburg
To answer you question, please read Fulano's posts.
But, I am presuming that your question was ironic.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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CaboRon
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Posts: 3401
Registered: 3-24-2007
Location: The Valley of the Moon
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Mood: Peacefull
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fulano
All I'm saying is that people should tell it like it is. |
Well, you're doing a fine job of that here and now and I hope you continue. You probably will until you figure out that most of the time you're
talking to the wall.
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