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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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This Problem Must Be a Big Deal
From the Wiki page about Constitucion:
"Travel warning: The city police in Constitucion are quite corrupt. If travelling thru town by road, 1/4 of gringo tourist vehicles are stopped by the
police and extorted for money for contrived violations. If so confronted, do not pay - DEMAND to be escorted to the police station to see a judge and
pay the "fine" there. Officers looking for street-side bribes are rather timid, because they know they are doing wrong, and can be intimidated by a
firm, indignant response."
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Robin Wade of Western Outdoor News posted the notice to report on The Baja Pony Express today. That's 2,200 more irate gringos who might send an Email
too. Now I'll send the Consulate info to The Western Onion on the Pacific side.
We wouldn't have to do all this if Margaret was still alive. She was my mother in law. I once put a lifesize poster of her in our cornfield and the
crows brought back corn they stole two years earlier.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
flyfish:
Do you not realize that this kind of thing happens all over Baja and mainland Mexico??
It is a national way of the Polkiceman getting Paid with out having to go through collecting Taxes!!
Please send me the Identification of the vehicle you will be in on your next trip.
I am contacting my friends in Constitution, which includes the Mayor, and
warning them of your interferance!!!. |
Ain't that the POT Calling the keTtle BLACK! I see your mail as interference in a police investigation and a threat to the viCtims which are both
criminal.
I git the feeling that Skeet aint SKEET or that we are bing had because the sKeeT I know wouldn't outta do nutin of this sort or what not.
Something is fishy!
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Yes!! Now is the time to use what ever pull you have to stop this Illegal Extortion of US Citizens on the ONLY Federal Highway that connects Baja
Norte with Baja Sur.
Be the agent of change, good work Nomads, keep this up and we MAY get somewhere! If not for yourself then do this for your fellow Nomads who must run
this gauntlet in order to live in Baja. Huelga! Strike!
ACS has requested that you send emails with details of your encounter with Extortion by Police in Ciudad Constitution to:
American Citizen Services
US Consulate General Tijuana
ACSTijuana@state.gov
Think of other ways that you can raise public awareness of what it going on and continue to Make News!
Yofetchapescasconmibuenamigosbajanomads!
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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"An ant on the move does more than a dozing ox"
Well said, very well said indeed! We are an ant hill!!
Now as to mother in laws, I surely do wish your mother in law was around to deal with this so I could just go fishing in peace. Now my mother in
law.....that's another story for another day....good work Osprey!! We'll go over that ground over one of the beers I am going to buy you!!
When Ciudad Constitution stops their police from illegally extorting money from US Citizens who must travel thru their town maybe we should have a
Nomad Celebration in Ciudad Constitution and spend a LOT OF MONEY!
Would that make you happy Skeet/Loreto?
Iflyfish
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Whew! Who knows where this thing could lead? Now, for my glovebox I have the Villegas name and phone number, some of Skeet’s posts, the U.S. Consulate
Email saying they’ll look into it, copies of the Baja Pony Express and the Baja Western Onion.
And who knows what the Mexicans will do? There could be payback. You never know. And they have guns. So I’m also putting in there the disclaimer (in
English, Spanish and Portuguese) below (English).
I, we, us, have nothing to do with IFLYFISH. He’s the one who started this, we knew nothing about it. He lives up north somewhere. He started all of
this from the U.S., from up north there somewhere and I, we, us were not involved in any of his shenanigans against the police or the city government
of CC or any other little town down there.
Date:
Signature: Osprey (for example)
Gotta go. Gotta meet Enrique so he can help me make a bigger glovebox. Whew.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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O
exactly, bad friends in good places! huelga!
better super size the old glovebox O, we ain't done yet
our mexican nomad friends don't like this either! basta mordida in CC!
Iflyfishfurtherawaythananybajabullitcanfly
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17599
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
From the Wiki page about Constitucion:
"Travel warning: The city police in Constitucion are quite corrupt. If travelling thru town by road, 1/4 of gringo tourist vehicles are stopped by the
police and extorted for money for contrived violations. If so confronted, do not pay - DEMAND to be escorted to the police station to see a judge and
pay the "fine" there. Officers looking for street-side bribes are rather timid, because they know they are doing wrong, and can be intimidated by a
firm, indignant response." |
that edit was by a wikipedia newbie (one time editor),... smells fishy!
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3147
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
flyfish:
Do you not realize that this kind of thing happens all over Baja and mainland Mexico??
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I beg to differ, Skeet. What has been happening in Ciudad Constitucion is highly unusual, even by Mexican standards. Last summer, I took the ferry to
Topolobampo, and proceeded to drive out to Cancun, QR, first along the Pacific Coast and returning along the Gulf of Mexico before exiting Mexico into
West Texas. I returned to La Paz via Tecate. During the whole trip, I was only pulled over in Cd. Constitucion--the only place I know I wasn't
violating any traffic laws.
Bad luck? Perhaps, but I doubt it. I've been pulled over more than a few times in my travels throughout Mexico, but only in Cd. Constitucion do I ever
feel like I didn't deserve it.
Perhaps if you lived at some point south of CC, you'd have a different perspective.
[Edited on 7-7-2010 by Bajatripper]
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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I kinda think that Skeet may have inadvertently hit upon something. Leaving aside folk who live in Loreto and La Paz, the bulk of the traffic passing
through Cd. Constitucion is doing just that; passing through. Leaving out the nearby fishing and whale-watching activities in Mag Bay, fact is that a
whole lotta Baja travelers don't even stop in CC. And perhaps, many of those same folks consider the experience of driving through town to be an
annoyance during their drive between La Paz and Loreto. Just thinking that some locals may just feel that they get no respect, via tourist dollars,
and voila! they exact a penalty. I'm probably gonna regret even mentioning this again, but I've driven through that town probably 60 times over the
years and have never been molested by the cops. I will also confess to the fact that in those 60+ passages, I think I had a couple of meals at El
Taste, and I bought gas, but not even in town, rather at the Pemex by the turn at Insurgentes. Maybe I'm the odd one (no jokes about the name), but I
really have to consider that so many folks who make the trip Loreto-La Paz, come upon this town having been driving through miles and miles of
wilderness from either end. I can understand why they might just think that the town is an inconvenience to them.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
I've been pulled over more than a few times in my travels throughout Mexico, but only in Cd. Constitucion do I ever feel like I didn't deserve it.
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I wish we could get away from labeling what's happening in Ciudad Constitucion as mordida. It's extortion. Maybe benevolent to some but extortion just
the same. As practiced in Mexico, bribery is mostly voluntary and usually beneficial to both parties.
This ain't that.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17599
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
flyfish:
Do you not realize that this kind of thing happens all over Baja and mainland Mexico??
|
I beg to differ, Skeet. What has been happening in Ciudad Constitucion is highly unusual, even by Mexican standards. Last summer, I took the ferry to
Topolobampo, and proceeded to drive out to Cancun, QR, first along the Pacific Coast and returning along the Gulf of Mexico before exiting Mexico into
West Texas. I returned to La Paz via Tecate. During the whole trip, I was only pulled over in Cd. Constitucion--the only place I know I wasn't
violating any traffic laws.
Bad luck? Perhaps, but I doubt it. I've been pulled over more than a few times in my travels throughout Mexico, but only in Cd. Constitucion do I ever
feel like I didn't deserve it.
Perhaps if you lived at some point south of CC, you'd have a different perspective.
[Edited on 7-7-2010 by Bajatripper] |
it would be better if the cops targeted the people actually committing moving violations. (perhaps they are, and the people complaining here are
senile and unaware they drive poorly?? )
perhaps it would be better if the cops requested smaller bribes, say about $10 US?
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17599
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
I wish we could get away from labeling what's happening in Ciudad Constitucion as mordida. It's extortion. Maybe benevolent to some but extortion just
the same. |
i think it is a "tax"
someone told me on another thread that "fees" and all payments to govt officials (e.g. bribes, fines) are simply "taxes" masquerading under another
name
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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Dave got it right IMHO. We can look at payments made to PGJE and other gov't officials as a "User Tax" because both parties benefit in either
streamlined service or getting the cash. A mordida is for when you do something wrong and decide to negotiate yourself out of the situation with cash
(minor accident with no insurance, traffic violations). What this thread is discussing is extortion- because the outcome is not determined by
anything the victim wants in exchange or because he has done something wrong.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I kinda think that Skeet may have inadvertently hit upon something. Leaving aside folk who live in Loreto and La Paz, the bulk of the traffic passing
through Cd. Constitucion is doing just that; passing through. Leaving out the nearby fishing and whale-watching activities in Mag Bay, fact is that a
whole lotta Baja travelers don't even stop in CC. And perhaps, many of those same folks consider the experience of driving through town to be an
annoyance during their drive between La Paz and Loreto. Just thinking that some locals may just feel that they get no respect, via tourist dollars,
and voila! they exact a penalty. I'm probably gonna regret even mentioning this again, but I've driven through that town probably 60 times over the
years and have never been molested by the cops. I will also confess to the fact that in those 60+ passages, I think I had a couple of meals at El
Taste, and I bought gas, but not even in town, rather at the Pemex by the turn at Insurgentes. Maybe I'm the odd one (no jokes about the name), but I
really have to consider that so many folks who make the trip Loreto-La Paz, come upon this town having been driving through miles and miles of
wilderness from either end. I can understand why they might just think that the town is an inconvenience to them. |
Your 'this never happens to me', is of no relevance. By the way, you say this type of thing often. That would be like saying everyone who was ever
murdered is irrelevet because it didn't happen to you, which lacks empathy for those who have been hit up repeatedly.
CC is a center for farming and a successful town that has business where people work and live, like every city in the world people can either pursue
business work or not-but that doesn't justify crime, it is not incumbent on others to stop in any city and give money, each resident of CC must pursue
legal business just as you or I.
Your reasoning lacks empathy and isn't really helpful right now while help is being requested for those who are targeted.
If you have something positive to add, for example some reasoning as to why you do not get pulled over perhaps that could be helpful.
The real issue is that corruption has flourished there because it is allowed to flourish. Now it's going to stop because the community will no longer
tolerate it.
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Marc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2793
Registered: 5-15-2010
Location: San Francisco & Palm Springs
Member Is Offline
Mood: Waiting
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Skeet, with your way of thought Mexico will always be just another third world p--- hole.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Marc
Skeet, with your way of thought Mexico will always be just another third world p--- hole. |
Lay off Skeet. If you don't know his function and esteemed position here....leave him alone.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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Skeet said "flyfish: Is it not great that 2 people can disagree??"
He is right; we just disagree about how to deal with this. He believes that efforts like we are making will result in nothing happening. He might be
right about this. I however want to do what we can to expose this problem in the hopes that Nomads can travel to and thru Ciudad Constitution and not
be exposed to this extortion. This would be good for all of us and for the people and businesses of this fine city that we Nomads have helped so much
during the last hurricane.
I may be tilting at windmills and Skeet’s and others assessment may be right. I don't have a dog in the who’s right/wrong game. Skeet is just
expressing himself in his inimitable style. Let’s keep focused on the task.
If you have experienced Police Extortion in Ciudad Constitution or know people who have please have them send a report via email to the address below.
American Citizen Services
US Consulate General Tijuana
ACSTijuana@state.gov
If you know people, as Skeet does, who might be able to help us stop this criminal behavior and the hemorrhaging of tourist dollars that flow out of
this, then please let them know to get the word out to whomever might be able to help us stop this hijacking of US Citizens on the ONLY Federal
Highway that connects North and South Baja.
Thank you,
Iflyfish
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Marc:
I see that you are a Junior member of this Board. It may be that you are lacking in Experience about Baja.
I have been going there since 1967, living there full time for 16 years and found that I had more Freedom than I do in the States.
I also think it woyuld be much better for Mexico to stay the same than to change to a "Drug riddin DOPE Country of Young uneducated Whimps"".
Skeet
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