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Hook
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Rob, within your link entitled The New Immigration Law and Your FM2 or FM3, you state that:
(It's unclear how this will affect owning foreign cars, in the parts of Mexico outside the border zone.)
This statement implies that there are CURRENTLY exemptions for owning a foreign car if you live in a border zone and possess an FM2. Is that true? If
so, what are the border zones?
This purported requirement to import your vehicles if on an FM2 is the single most onerous thing that keeps me from applying for an FM2.
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gnukid
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
Rob, within your link entitled The New Immigration Law and Your FM2 or FM3, you state that:
(It's unclear how this will affect owning foreign cars, in the parts of Mexico outside the border zone.)
This statement implies that there are CURRENTLY exemptions for owning a foreign car if you live in a border zone and possess an FM2. Is that true? If
so, what are the border zones?
This purported requirement to import your vehicles if on an FM2 is the single most onerous thing that keeps me from applying for an FM2.
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Up til now, FM-2 restrictions on US plated cars does not apply to Baja according to Aduana. Keep in mind this is an issue that can not be enforced by
police, INM or military, it is an aduana issue so don't expect to get answers from other sources. At least, there hasn't been enforcement of the
restriction by Aduana in Baja. This could change or remain equally vague in the future. Equally uncertain is the restriction on number of vehicles
which is limited to one per person/visa. Even inmigrados have been allowed to drive us plated cars without issue. This may or may not change or be
equally vague.
[Edited on 11-11-2012 by gnukid]
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Hook
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Thanks, gnukid.
Are you basing this on conversations you have had with Aduana staff (the part about Baja being exempt) or have you seen it written on a Mexican govt
website?
Thanks, again. You are a great source of information here. And a realist, too, with statements like
"This may or may not change or be equally vague."
Man, that's Mexico all right...........
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gnukid
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
Thanks, gnukid.
Are you basing this on conversations you have had with Aduana staff (the part about Baja being exempt) or have you seen it written on a Mexican govt
website?
Thanks, again. You are a great source of information here. And a realist, too, with statements like
"This may or may not change or be equally vague."
Man, that's Mexico all right........... |
I have asked carefully, aduana has said we know of no requirement or enforcement of such an issue, FM-2 holders can drive their us plated car in baja.
But I know that corrupt police think they can use this ruse as a way to intimidate people and claim they can seize the vehicle, but actually they
can't or at can't for very long. Let's see what happens today. I will report back any new information.
Let's keep in mind the point of this reform is to make it possible for Mexicans to return home and for foreigners to easily retire or move to Mexico
for investment so one would assume they will therefore allow these foreigners (many who previously were mexicans but lost citizenship temporarily
while away) to return with the US plated car as well as social security retirees.
This reminds me of a story, I was working on my car in front of a friends house, and there were many cars lined up parked in front. We were all fixing
things and sharing each others support so it appeared I was working on a bunch of cars and sometimes driving them. Eventually in the evening I drive
the half block to buy some beer and was pulled over by local crazy drunk cops for having too many US cars on a FM-2. I remained calm and they
escalated with guns drawn and insisted on seizing the vehicle and me to take me to the police station to hold the vehicle apparently I was supposed to
freak out and call for money. Riding in the back of the truck the junior cop explained I had too many cars and a fm-2. I laughed. We ate tomatoes from
a crate. After two hours sitting in the police station in San Juan De Los Plannes listening to me discuss Hernan Cortez and his indian wife and their
dreams and influence on Baja culture, food and architecture , the problem with celebrating thanksgiving, and the resulting confusing identity of Baja
Mexicans, the corruptos buzz wore off the they dejectedly suggested I go back home and forget the whole thing.
[Edited on 11-11-2012 by gnukid]
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Mulegena
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Posts: 2412
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Hot Gnuz right off the press!!
I like your style, Gnu.
Oh, yes, I likes your style!!
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: |
This reminds me of a story...I remained calm and they escalated with guns drawn and insisted on seizing the vehicle and me to take me to the police
station to hold the vehicle apparently I was supposed to freak out and call for money. Riding in the back of the truck the junior cop
explained...and... I laughed. We ate tomatoes from a crate. After two hours sitting in the police station in San Juan De Los Plannes listening to me
discuss Hernan Cortez and his indian wife and their dreams and influence on Baja culture, food and architecture , the problem with celebrating
thanksgiving, and the resulting confusing identity of Baja Mexicans, the corruptos buzz wore off the they dejectedly suggested I go back home and
forget the whole thing.
[Edited on 11-11-2012 by gnukid] |
[Edited on 11-11-2012 by Mulegena] |
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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Scorpimon
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Residencia Permanente Visa's obtained today at Mexican Consulate in Denver.
As an update to the new immigration regulations, here is a summary of my experience today at the Mexican Consulate here in Denver Colorado. The new
software was still being downloaded into their computers when we arrived but decided to wait around to see if the system would work. The nice
consulate lady indicated that she would like to use our information to see if the system will work. We provided all the paperwork needed for the
previous FM3 plus the financial requirements needed for the new Residencia Permanente Visa. No hassle on the paperwork at all, just one copy of
everything as usual. Six hours later we had the new Residencia Permanente Visa's in our USA passports. The six hours was due to getting the system
up and running, learning their new jobs and the system interface with Mexico City. Other than a long day it was a positive experience with the
consulate staff very friendly and helpful. As with the FM3 we now have 180 days to enter Mexico one time and then finish the process locally at the
Loreto immigration office. We will see what happens in December when we get down there. The cost to process the Visa's was $36 each.
Ernie
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gnukid
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Scorpimon
Residencia Permanente Visa's obtained today at Mexican Consulate in Denver.
As an update to the new immigration regulations, here is a summary of my experience today at the Mexican Consulate here in Denver Colorado. The new
software was still being downloaded into their computers when we arrived but decided to wait around to see if the system would work. The nice
consulate lady indicated that she would like to use our information to see if the system will work. We provided all the paperwork needed for the
previous FM3 plus the financial requirements needed for the new Residencia Permanente Visa. No hassle on the paperwork at all, just one copy of
everything as usual. Six hours later we had the new Residencia Permanente Visa's in our USA passports. The six hours was due to getting the system
up and running, learning their new jobs and the system interface with Mexico City. Other than a long day it was a positive experience with the
consulate staff very friendly and helpful. As with the FM3 we now have 180 days to enter Mexico one time and then finish the process locally at the
Loreto immigration office. We will see what happens in December when we get down there. The cost to process the Visa's was $36 each.
Ernie |
Historically this sort of thing has not gone well since the INM office where you arrive requires to provide all the current info including updated
proof of income if required and much more. Generally they'll find fault with the foreign (US) made visa and yo'll have to get new photos and do it
again, regardless you'll pay the same fees in Mexico you would have otherwise resulting in only frustration and expense for your trouble. That said,
its still a worthwhile experiment and I appreciate you posting your experience. I was thinking of visiting the US Mexican Consulatate myself just to
see if they would renew my visa as well and hear what they had to say, since its relatively empty in the US citizens lineup area. FYI to others they
usually close at 1pm in the USA. Please post more recent experiences since Nov 12th.
Update: apparently filing in the US at the Mexican consulate for first timers (which could be interpreted as everyone since everyone is on a new
program) is required.
[Edited on 11-14-2012 by gnukid]
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msteve1014
Senior Nomad
Posts: 947
Registered: 12-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Scorpimon
Residencia Permanente Visa's obtained today at Mexican Consulate in Denver.
As an update to the new immigration regulations, here is a summary of my experience today at the Mexican Consulate here in Denver Colorado. The new
software was still being downloaded into their computers when we arrived but decided to wait around to see if the system would work. The nice
consulate lady indicated that she would like to use our information to see if the system will work. We provided all the paperwork needed for the
previous FM3 plus the financial requirements needed for the new Residencia Permanente Visa. No hassle on the paperwork at all, just one copy of
everything as usual. Six hours later we had the new Residencia Permanente Visa's in our USA passports. The six hours was due to getting the system
up and running, learning their new jobs and the system interface with Mexico City. Other than a long day it was a positive experience with the
consulate staff very friendly and helpful. As with the FM3 we now have 180 days to enter Mexico one time and then finish the process locally at the
Loreto immigration office. We will see what happens in December when we get down there. The cost to process the Visa's was $36 each.
Ernie |
There were always mixed reports of how well this worked out for people. The office you go to in Baja seems to be the big factor in how smooth it
goes. Please report back when you are finished. We are all hoping for the best.
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Hook
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Scorpimon, how many previous renewals of an FM3 had you had, before you applied for and apparently were cleared for Permanent Resident status? Did the
number of renewals seem to play into your eligibility into getting the PR status? Was the decision to proceed with PR status made by you or the
consulate staff?
I assume that when you get to your Loreto office is when you will pay far more than 36.00 US, correct? Looks like it will be somewhere around 3100
pesos.
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gnukid
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You may want to read the law. It is possible to get Pemanente Residente as a first timer or as a move from any previous status. It depends on your
case and qualification points, proof of investment and income and completion of application. That is why you hear people say that previous years don't
matter, becuase in some cases they don't. Sufficient income and investment plus other qualificantions is a direct path to permanente residente. I have
done research over the last 24 hours and while it's messy, the laws exist to help anyone get permanent or tempoary status or simply be a visitor if
you don't have income to qualify for residente temporal or residente permanente, you can turn to your local Mexican Consulate for your country of
origin for help and to apply, in cases where you are changing levels it is generlly encouraged/required.
Here is the direct INM help line
01-800-004-6264
http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5270615&fecha=...
For Permanente Residente
Under Tramite 7
V. Presentar los documentos que acrediten alguno de los siguientes supuestos:
a. Jubilados o pensionados:
1. Original y copia de comprobante de inversiones o cuentas bancarias con saldo promedio mensual equivalente a veinticinco mil días de salario mínimo
general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos doce meses, o
2. Original y copia de los documentos que demuestren que cuenta con pensión con ingresos mensuales libres de gravámenes mayores al equivalente de
quinientos días de salario mínimo general vigente en el Distrito Federal, durante los últimos seis meses.
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Hook
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Yes, gnukid, I know how the law READS. I'm looking for physical confirmation that someone has actually jumped to PR status w/o four prior years of
FM3.
Of course, that was at a consulate. I wont be going that route.
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LaTijereta
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
I assume that when you get to your Loreto office is when you will pay far more than 36.00 US, correct? Looks like it will be somewhere around 3100
pesos. |
Looks to be:
VII. Residente Permanente………………………… $3,815.00
"Permanent residency can be granted after just 4 years of Temporary Residency vs. the previous 5 year FM2 requirement." I also understand that “the
time on a FM-3 does not count. Time on a FM-2 does count towards Permanent Resident.“
All to be sorted out at a INM office near you...
Democracy is like two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin (1759)
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Scorpimon
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Hook
I had an FM3 from about 2006-2008 but cancelled it in Loreto due to work not allowing us to get down to Baja for an annual renewal (always late and
had to pay late fees), and a move to Baja was not in the near future. So I do not have a current FM3 and went straight to the Residencia Permanante
status (at least that is what was listed on the paperwork and what is stamped in my US passport). What happens in Loreto in December is the big
unknown.
The number of renewals of an FM3 did not have anything to do with applying for the PR in the states. The FM3 was not an option. The only choice I
had was applying for the temporary or permanent residence status, and since I met the permanent financial qualifications I thought that was the way to
go.
Yes I will have to pay the main fee in Loreto. The $36 paid at the consulate was just for their part of the filing process. I will do a follow-up
after a visit to Loreto INM.
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larryC
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
Yes, gnukid, I know how the law READS. I'm looking for physical confirmation that someone has actually jumped to PR status w/o four prior years of
FM3.
Of course, that was at a consulate. I wont be going that route. |
Hook
I had an fm3 (no inmigrante) for 2 years and went up to an fm2 (Inmigrante). I have had it for 3 years now. Is that what you are talking about?
Larry
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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M
Nomad
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Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA.
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Mood: looking for joy...
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I have a question
Aboutr immigration laws but to keep the tr's happy, I will proceed on the QA board.
BIG HUGS
 M
Looking for new adventures now; Always...
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rhintransit
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Posts: 1588
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Location: Loreto
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it's all speculation until folks actually go thru the drill here. I stopped in the Loreto office (pre-Nov 8) and asked about the Permanent Resident
status. the nice lady hadn't a clue and went back to talk with the jefe. came back and said it would still take 10 years, then apply. not what the
law says and not necessarily what will happen now, but basically don't count on the local offices to have it straightened out soon. there are a
number of lawyers putting forth their interpretation of the laws. my approach (due in January) is to see what the locals are asking for then...and if
I don't agree with that, pick one of those lawyers to discuss it with INM officials here. I have been told that most everything will be done on line,
collected locally, sent to Mexico City for processing, and the card (or whatever) will be issued from Mexico. also that it's good I'm around so much
because the anticipated wait for the card (or whatever) is five to six months. having the application accepted papers in hand will most likely be
sufficient in the interim.
reality\'s never been of much use out here...
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
Yes, gnukid, I know how the law READS. I'm looking for physical confirmation that someone has actually jumped to PR status w/o four prior years of
FM3.
Of course, that was at a consulate. I wont be going that route. |
I agree that it's not worthwhile to get info off heresay on a bulliten board however if you are looking for recent anecdotal information it does
exist. Do a search on Mexican Immigration and set the dates to the last 24 hours and you'll get tons of recent reports. I reported to you the recent
reports over the last 24hours, and I see you have posted on other boards too.
Here is a simple summary, anyone changing status in any way (from FMM to Temporal Residente or to Permanente Residente) MUST apply at their home
Mexican consulate, you must leave the country and return. Of course there will be exceptions to this requirement to leave to apply for status change
for valid holders of current visas who are qualified but those will be exceptions.
The laws are translated and there are updated operating orders available but those too are written in spanish and if you can't or are unwilling to
translate them, you're at a disadvantage.
Temporal Residente status is the most common form for those people who wish to stay more than 6 months.
There is a qualification point system which is described for each option, qualification points are defined for income level, investment level (home
value), ability to speak Spanish, knowledge of history, professional level (computer or biological scientist), significnt relationship with a Mexican
such as living with girlfriend/boyfriend or marriage and children.
The formulas are clearly spelled out for qualification with formulas, one simply must present your qualifications 6-12 months of income and balance
and home title and valuations plus other demonstratable qualifications such as your degree.
I'll post more links to translations for you.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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Don't forget, you must apply online prior to visiting an office even if its wrong. And in most cases you are encouraged/required to apply at your
local home country Mexican consuate. It's helpful for people who are concerned or uncertain about their immigration application approach to read the
new laws and choose an approach and copy the section down and prepare the proof of requirements, decide which path is best for themselves and then
tell the Mexcian Consulate and INM clerk they are going down that defined path and stick to the law. Then you can point out that income verification
is or is not required or previous years are or are not required or leaving and returning is or is not required in your case as defined by the law.
there are many forumals for income etc... Otherwise you are at the mercy of a clerk who may not be skilled at reading the law or doing the math or
counting qualification points.
Here are a few sources of discussion about this issue:
http://www.sanfelipenews.com/post/mexico-immigration-forms-a...
http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=182...
http://dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?codigo=5270615&fecha=28/09/2012
Online application must be completed prior to visiting Consulate or INM
http://www.inm.gob.mx/index.php/page/Solicitud_de_Estancia
http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/
http://www.mymexicanlawyer.com/immigration-questions/living-...
http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?forum=4;...
Recent updated guidelines
Consulates and DF rule over INM regional offices, but local offices can submit exceptions and waivers...
http://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_to_doc.php?codnota=5277358
http://dof.gob.mx/nota_to_doc.php?codnota=5276968
http://dof.gob.mx/nota_to_doc.php?codnota=5276964
Mexico Immigration Hotline
01-800-004-6264
24 hours / day and 7 days a week.
[Edited on 11-15-2012 by gnukid]
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Riom
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
There is a qualification point system which is described for each option, qualification points are defined for income level, investment level (home
value), ability to speak Spanish, knowledge of history, professional level (computer or biological scientist), significnt relationship with a Mexican
such as living with girlfriend/boyfriend or marriage and children.
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Do you have a reference in DOF or elsewhere for the full details of the points system? In Spanish is fine. I wasn't able to spot it yet in the big
batch of procedures released on the 8th (apart from the checklists for each tramite). Thanks!
Rob
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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I get most of my info from you, but they are listed per application scenario, the scenarios are written as 3-4 criteria I would suggest people gather
evidence of each that appies and steam roll:
typcial categories
income/savings month to month (you'll want to show sufficient income)
investment/business/home value (exceeding 1.25-2 million pesos)
significant relationships/gf/bf/marriage/children/possibly friends
ability to speak/write spanish
knowledge of history and culture
contribution/culture/art/sports
proferssional level/scientific degrees
personal history
fecha de vencimiento
[Edited on 11-15-2012 by gnukid]
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