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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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On legislating religion
The zenith of soviet stupidity had to be when national hero, Yuri Gagarin, stepped out of his space capsule and reassured everyone the he had not seen
a grey haired old man while up there.
How embarassing! How foolish to represent a nation with a dimwit statement like that. That had to bring more people to the church than anything the
soviets could have come up with.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64759
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
Haven't seen the movie yet, but will. What many of Americans (and even some Mexicans) don't realize is that, historically speaking, the Catholic
Church had been one of the most powerful and dominant forces in Mexico in all areas of national life. In addition to holding vast tracts of lands that
had been taken from indigenous communities and which were used to keep people subservient to Church interests, much of the nation's banking was
controlled by the Church. It was a time when whoever ruled Mexico did so at the pleasure of the Military and the Catholic Church.
That was one of the things that President Juarez sought to change in the mid-1800s when he tried to make Mexico a secular state with public education
available to all (as a child, he had studied in a seminary as the only recourse available for a poor kid in Mexico).
Although I don't care much for President Plutarco Elias Calles (he was nothing more than a ruthless dictator who continued to rule through proxy
presidents until President Card##as basically had him arrested in his bedroom during the middle of the night, had him taken to the airport and exiled
him to the US for the remainder of his life. Seems to me he died in La Jolla, CA), he was only trying to institute the reforms of the new Constitution
and break the hold the Catholic Church held on the nation's policies. Members of the Church responded with the continuation of armed conflict after
the Revolution known as the Cristero Revolt.
An offshoot of this revolt was felt in Baja California, with the founding of the Sinarquista colony of Maria Auxiliadora in the Valle de Santo Domingo
north of La Paz in the 1940s. After the main Cristero Revolt had been squashed, smaller revolts continued. One of these, centered in Michoacán, was
known as the Sinarquista Revolt. President Card##as, who was from Michoacán and reluctant to use force on his own people, instead gathered some twenty
Sinarquista families and, with government support, sent them to Baja California to form one of the first agricultural colonies in "El Valle," as the
region around Ciudad Constitucion is known. These people blazed the first trail from Santo Domingo to San Javier to connect them to Loreto. Although
many of the agricultural colonies founded in El Valle were successful, Maria Auxiliadora was not one of them and most of the families--who couldn't
adapt to the harsh desert environment--returned to Michoacán within the first few years. Today, one can still visit the church the Sinarquistas built
in Maria Auxiliadora, the bricks have a special marking they put into them. If there's any interest expressed here, I'll go through my photos to find
pictures of the church and bricks to post.
[Edited on 5-6-2013 by Bajatripper] |
More great stuff from you Steve! Thank you... I only know of Maria Auxiliadora from the Lower California Guidebook's interesting mention of it (page
162, 4th edition). Photos have been posted on Baja Nomad of it, as well...
Here is a post I made in 2004 (quoting the Guidebook on Maria Auxiliadora):
Baja Places 47 Years Ago: SANTO DOMINGO (BCS)
From the 1958 Lower California Guidebook describing the town between La Purisima and (today's) Ciudad Constitucion, as observed in 1957, 47 years ago.
Santo Domingo (del Pacifico). Pop. 165. Communications: Air mail once a week to La Paz; Army radio. A dusty, windswept, bleak collection of shacks,
Santo Domingo is at the northern edge of an important farming area developed since 1940. Several thousand acres are irrigated from wells and planted
to wheat, alfalfa, cotton, and other crops. In 1942 the colony of Maria Auxiliadora was established at Santo Domingo by the Sinarquistas, a militant
religious (Roman Catholic) group allied with the Spanish Falange. Some 400 destitute peasants from central Mexico were brought here, but only a few
families remain. Later other groups of colonists were brought over by the Government and a number of cooperative farming colonies have been formed,
extending about 60 mi. south along the Magdalena Plain. The colonists are given land, water, farming implements, and government loans.
There is a small army detachment at Santo Domingo and a military checkpoint where cars are examined. Intoxicating beverages are confiscated. Meals and
gasoline are usually available.
Tehag had posted photos in 2008, but the link to his flickr pics is not good... http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=31941
[Edited on 5-7-2013 by David K]
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philodog
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Posts: 163
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I love getting my history lessons from movies. It`s so much easier than reading boring books. I let the script writers in Hollywood do all that
tedious research for me. That old English priest in the movie sure liked to touch and kiss that sweet young boy a lot! What was up with that? 
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by philodog
I love getting my history lessons from movies. It`s so much easier than reading boring books. |
Remember "Classics Illustrated?" The world's finest literature in a funnybook format.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classics_Illustrated
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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My great uncle Erwin was Lutheran as were my grandparents, my grandfather Erwin Rommel XXXX, changed to Episcopalian to try and soothe anti-german
sentiment in the northwest USA.
But SOME of the padres and most of the Gauchupines were freakin' BRUTAL to the indigenous, nasty and racist to Mestizos and very unpleasant and
condescending to peninsulares. Mexico was rife with lethal racism back then.
2013, can you imagine someone in the USA looking at someone obviously indigenous and opening a sentence by saying "Hey Indian"? It happens in 2013
Mexico all the time.
Some of the catholics were OK like father Serra. Others were N-zis of religion. The church tried to take over Mexico and loot it for the Vatican.
Things weren't always as pleasant as they are now.
Brenda, jesus, and las nietas know better than to use INDIO as a title of address for someone when they are in my presence.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Some of the catholics were OK like father Serra. |
Not according to the San Juan Capistrano locals with Indian blood, Juaneños. They accuse Junipero of enslavement.
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3148
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
But SOME of the padres and most of the Gauchupines were freakin' BRUTAL to the indigenous, nasty and racist to Mestizos and very unpleasant and
condescending to peninsulares. Mexico was rife with lethal racism back then.
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I'm going to assume that you meant "Criollos" (people of Spanish parents born in the Americas) instead of "Peninsulares," since Peninsulares were the
Gachupines (both terms referring to people born in Spain).
Another point of yours I'd take issue with is one of context. What you say is true, BUT Spaniards at least had--and continue to have-- an "Indegenous
Problem" precisely because they didn't go out and try to exterminate them to take their lands--as was done in our own country (they didn't have the
old saying about the "only good Indian being a dead one" since they valued them for the work they performed). And Spaniards were free to marry
indigenous people whereas in Colonial British North America such a union would have been a major scandal (Pocahontis comes to mind).
I've always been fascinated by how US history books make a big deal about Cortes's claim that Spaniards suffered from "gold fever" to induce the
natives to produce more of the precious metal--as if the British wouldn't have felt the same way had they have been the ones to stumble on
gold-laden Aztec or the Inca empires first. No, the British and later Americans, of course, would have been above all of that and just been content
with butchering all of the Indigenous people that crossed their paths. Can't get more racist than to try to exterminate a people, IMO.
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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J.P.
Super Nomad
Posts: 1673
Registered: 7-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda
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Mood: Easy Does It
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| Quote: | Originally posted by philodog
I love getting my history lessons from movies. It`s so much easier than reading boring books. I let the script writers in Hollywood do all that
tedious research for me. That old English priest in the movie sure liked to touch and kiss that sweet young boy a lot! What was up with that? |
I use to be a avid reader I loved books that wove Historic Events in their Story. as you said much better than reading History Books or Pure
Fiction.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
No, the British and later Americans, of course, would have been above all of that and just been content with butchering all of the Indigenous people
that crossed their paths. Can't get more racist than to try to exterminate a people, IMO. |
Even the invaders wouldn't be so impractical as to get rid of all the worker bees....would they? I mean....the church found something to keep them
busy.
.
[Edited on 5-12-2013 by DENNIS]
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Bajatripper
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3148
Registered: 3-20-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajatripper
No, the British and later Americans, of course, would have been above all of that and just been content with butchering all of the Indigenous people
that crossed their paths. Can't get more racist than to try to exterminate a people, IMO. |
Even the invaders wouldn't be so impractical as to get rid of all the worker bees....would they? I mean....the church found something to keep them
busy.
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I'll be the first to admit that I know a great deal more about Mexican history than I do of my own, so bear with me, Dennis, when I ask which church
that was? Although Father Serra worked in California, he was operating on behalf of the Spaniards before it came under American dominance.
In some class or other I remember reading about the Cherokee Nation, one of the few Indigenous communities to buy into the White Man's world, only to
be included in President Jackson's massive Indigenous uprooting of all nations to West of the Mississippi and having to leave what they had
accumulated.
But you are right in that I should have said "most" instead of "all." We do have those pesky reservations as evidence of that (in case it isn't
obvious to some, I say that with a great deal of sarcasm).
There most certainly is but one side to every story: the TRUTH. Variations of it are nothing but lies.
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