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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
Cuffed people are less likely to run. If an uncuffed and detained person ran, officers would be justified in shooting. Mayby not. So, safety
is important. |
Well....if safety is their concern, perhaps they should add the extra protection of leg-irons.
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monoloco
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I don't think that they could legally use a dog alert as a basis for revoking a Sentri pass. It's not like the dog can give testimony or be cross
examined.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
I don't think that they could legally use a dog alert as a basis for revoking a Sentri pass. It's not like the dog can give testimony or be cross
examined. |
Having a legal battle with those folks might hurt all the way around. We've already paid for their attorneys.
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Yellowtail_Fever
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As far as I'm concerned if an individual has presented valid proof of US citizenship there is no reason to handcuff...unless, of course, you have an
outstanding warrent. Would we accept being handcuffed while answering questions on a "routine" traffic stop or while going through security at the
airport? It seems that we are letting freedom die a slow death every day that we put up with that crap.
Just my .02
Every trip I make to Baja is an adventure filled with discovery and treasure.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Yellowtail_Fever
As far as I'm concerned if an individual has presented valid proof of US citizenship there is no reason to handcuff...unless, of course, you have an
outstanding warrent. Would we accept being handcuffed while answering questions on a "routine" traffic stop or while going through security at the
airport? It seems that we are letting freedom die a slow death every day that we put up with that crap.
Just my .02 |
It seems some horny dog took an interested sniff at her and the alarms went off.
Pure, over the top reaction from the guard.
If the dogs can't control their hormones, they should be kept in the car lanes where they belong.
This is beyond nonsense. What it is, is police-state sheit.
If the border is a war zone, which most of it is, they should close the gawwwdammm thing instead of pretending it's a welcome center.
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mtgoat666
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Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Yellowtail_Fever
As far as I'm concerned if an individual has presented valid proof of US citizenship there is no reason to handcuff...unless, of course, you have an
outstanding warrent. Would we accept being handcuffed while answering questions on a "routine" traffic stop or while going through security at the
airport? It seems that we are letting freedom die a slow death every day that we put up with that crap.
Just my .02 |
It seems some horny dog took an interested sniff at her and the alarms went off.
Pure, over the top reaction from the guard.
If the dogs can't control their hormones, they should be kept in the car lanes where they belong.
This is beyond nonsense. What it is, is police-state sheit.
If the border is a war zone, which most of it is, they should close the gawwwdammm thing instead of pretending it's a welcome center.
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i have noticed that in past 20 to 30 years that law enforcement in USA has become quite thuggish and lost much connection to the local community,...
at least muni and county police forces answer to the local community (usually, but not always),... but fed law enforcement is untouchable by local
political influence, and fed politicians care not, so fed law enforcement has become especially goonish and gestapo-like.
there is no reason to handcuff a person during inspection (well, unless they got crazy eyes and weigh 250 pounds and behave erratically, a description
that applies to many nomads  )
[Edited on 7-10-2013 by mtgoat666]
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wilderone
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A de facto arrest, no probable cause to handcuff. see pp 7-8
http://le.alcoda.org/publications/point_of_view/files/DETENT...
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Kalypso
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Yellowtail_Fever
As far as I'm concerned if an individual has presented valid proof of US citizenship there is no reason to handcuff...unless, of course, you have an
outstanding warrent. Would we accept being handcuffed while answering questions on a "routine" traffic stop or while going through security at the
airport? It seems that we are letting freedom die a slow death every day that we put up with that crap.
Just my .02 |
It seems some horny dog took an interested sniff at her and the alarms went off.
Pure, over the top reaction from the guard.
If the dogs can't control their hormones, they should be kept in the car lanes where they belong.
This is beyond nonsense. What it is, is police-state sheit.
If the border is a war zone, which most of it is, they should close the gawwwdammm thing instead of pretending it's a welcome center.
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Dennis, you're closer than you think...
The dog was pretty insistent about gluing it's nose in my crotch, which isn't exactly unusal or unknown behavior in dogs. There I was thinking "oh my
god, I shoulda used that FDS" and the CBP agents are thinking they've nailed some drug smuggler. The realization that it was a drug dog didn't even
hit me until I was surrounded by CBP.
The agent that cuffed me did tell me I was not under arrest but that he would have to handcuff me to transport me. I'm pretty sure I asked him why
since I wasn't under arrest. That's when he laid the "safety reasons" explanation on me. The guy had at least 6 inches on me in height and probably
weighed more than me, had at least 2 weapons (both of which could be lethal) and there were substantially more of them than of me. As the saying
goes...I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid. Just tell me where you want me to go to deal with the issue and we'll go.
Handcuffs are totally a control mechanism because once you're in them you no longer have much control over what does or does not happen to you, which
can be more than a little disconcerting.
Once they figured out that I was harmless and were sending me on my way, the officer escorting me back to the main building did allude to the fact
that the border was a pretty sinister place. She didn't call it a war zone, but she came close.
I've never liked crossing at SY; it just feels treacherous with all those people, all those cars and all those cops. I like it even less now. It was
pretty clear that civil liberties don't rate real high at the border...
[Edited on 7-11-2013 by Kalypso]
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motoged
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Retired or current Nomad LEO's are remarkably silent on this topic. Howcome?? 
Don't believe everything you think....
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
Retired or current Nomad LEO's are remarkably silent on this topic. Howcome?? |
It's a different agenda. Out of their element. They still have to deal with civil rights.
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Mulegena
Super Nomad
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Registered: 11-7-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
Retired or current Nomad LEO's are remarkably silent on this topic. Howcome?? |
It's a different agenda. Out of their element. They still have to deal with civil rights. |
Whose rights are they dealing with such civility? Their own, correct?
(Had to check urbandictionary.com to find out you were referring to retired donut jockeys-- hey, that's what it says)
Kalypso, I'm so sorry for your experience. Can't find adequate words to express the dismay felt on so many levels! I've not passed north through the
San Ysidro crossing for many years, but for very different reasons. It is a rough sea out there, yes it is.
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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motoged
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Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
Retired or current Nomad LEO's are remarkably silent on this topic. Howcome?? |
It's a different agenda. Out of their element. They still have to deal with civil rights. |
Perhaps I should have been clearer: I am referring to the practice of using the cuffs for "safety reasons" with an unknown individual outside of
arrest situations . I see them do it all the time on the TV "Cops" program....so it happens in different situations with LEO's.
Still waiting for an LEO response..... 
Don't believe everything you think....
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mulegena
Whose rights are they dealing with such civility? Their own, correct?
(Had to check urbandictionary.com to find out you were referring to retired donut jockeys-- hey, that's what it says)
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Actually, I was referring to police forces away from the border.
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motoged
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Actually, I was referring to police forces away from the border. |
Oh, I thought this thread was about border security 
Don't believe everything you think....
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
Oh, I thought this thread was about border security
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It's about many many many many many many things. 
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motoged
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Claramente
Don't believe everything you think....
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DavidE
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Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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OH GOODY!
NOW I KNOW WHERE THOSE REJECTED AIRPORT BODY SCANNERS ARE HEADED
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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Lee
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What I'm reading seems like protocol. Dog smells something and that triggers some investigating. Transport may/may not mean cuffs. LEO
call. If a person hasn't been cuffed before, it could be intimidating. Is there more? Stuff like this happens. It's unpleasant.
That's about it.
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aguachico
Senior Nomad
Posts: 602
Registered: 3-23-2007
Location: tijuana
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Mood: logic cannot get thru to the illogical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Yellowtail_Fever
As far as I'm concerned if an individual has presented valid proof of US citizenship there is no reason to handcuff...unless, of course, you have an
outstanding warrent. Would we accept being handcuffed while answering questions on a "routine" traffic stop or while going through security at the
airport? It seems that we are letting freedom die a slow death every day that we put up with that crap.
Just my .02 |
You can't have protection and freedom at the time. The protocol for protection, like those protocols in prison are not the same as a traffic stop. I
can understand the hate and contempt for the CBP. They are less invasive then the TSA, then again I don't mind the TSA seeing they are 'protecting' -
there's that word again, my culu at 30,000 feet.
[Edited on 7-11-2013 by aguachico]
[Edited on 7-11-2013 by aguachico]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by aguachico
You can't have protection and freedom at the time. |
Second Amendment will argue that point, but we can save it for another time.
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