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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Joe I agree with you. I understand myself why the Rosarito Police arrested her as well. I am not a fan of police stories, but these guys were trying
to do their job. Their tactics after the fact were just about what I have heard about Mexican jails, this is nothing new. She should have hired a
Mexican attorney, and all Americans need to have a good one, in case they get caught up in this type or any type of legal or criminal situation
whether it is their fault or not. | Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I have been torturing myself by watching those YouTube videos that Dennis put up by Tall Artist, and although her heart seems in the right place,
because she was one of the first to help that Rosarito life guard when he was fatally shot and killed.
But I also can't help but think the Rosarito police were in the right when they arrested her, and she certainly at the very least contributed to her
arrest and lengthy stay in prison for a few reasons including her becoming unglued at the crime scene, and then later in prison, and some of this
she admitted to in the video.
After watching the first video, I'm already suspecting something, and by the second video, she herself confirms my deep suspicions about her. ( I have
not watched all four videos, but I watched most of the first two, and jumped around the third and fourth video to get a good sense on where she was
going with the video series)
If you have read some of my posts, you'll know I'm not a fan of police officer tactics in the USA or Mexico, but I understand the tactics used by the
police, especially in the states. ( cops won't take crap period, and you'll never win a fight against a cop for verbally abusing them, even if you
think you're right)
I have no doubt that if the very same thing happened in the US, that she also would have been at the very least arrested and probably would have been
locked up about the same amount of time, but the circumstances would have been a little different in the US.
Hopefully, after watching the video, and reading about this incident, others will be able to see what I'm talking about, and if not. I'll be back to
explain it.
There are two sides to every story, and one of the things I like to do, is put my feet in the other persons shoes, because it really help me gain
perspective on the other side of the story.
[Edited on 10-11-2013 by JoeJustJoe] |
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
Mood: groovy
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I agree with some of what you said, JoeJustJoe, she was arrested partly for going off the rails. She was emotional no doubt, she just witnessed a
murder and watched a man die, hard to get your composure after that and she probably had a lot of adrenlen running through her. And cops don't take
crap. But she shouldn't have been in there that long, and more than likely would not have been in that long in the U.S...48 hours IF on a weekend
arrest perhaps. IF they had just found out what her involvement was from the get-go and did their job as professionals, you know like basic things
like gathering information, then things would have been cleared up sooner rather than later. They didn't even really question her till days after the
arrest. Wouldn't you think if they had really felt she was quilty/a valid suspect, that they would have interrogated her immediately?
She wanted to identify the man, sketch his picture but they wouldn't let her. It was all about power and control, and maybe even more so, wanting to
silence her for a few days.
[Edited on 10-11-2013 by BajaLuna]
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
Mood: groovy
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well an attorney would have been ideal IF one was allowed a phone call! what's the point now, to get your pound of flesh out of the Rosarito PD? Not
going to happen! Her video hopefully will go a long ways to give others a heads up about the corrupt PD there.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Luna my thought is this. If this lady went berserk you immediately suspect an association with the victim. It could have been a drug deal or some
crime gone wrong. She could have been involved. Most murders are crimes of passion with over 90% of murderers being closely related to the victim.
They were trying to break her down to admit something most likely. Using tactics they use in the US, albeit in not so nice situations. We have all
heard about the conditions in Mexican jails, so respect the Mexican police and don't mouth off to them. No one is perfect in this world. But realize
you aren't going to get hotel accommodations or the Hotel Coral in Downtown Rosarito holding tank. | Quote: | Originally posted by BajaLuna
I agree with some of what you said, JoeJustJoe, she was arrested partly for going off the rails. She was emotional no doubt, she just witnessed a
murder and watched a man die, hard to get your composure after that and she probably had a lot of adrenlen running through her. And cops don't take
crap. But she shouldn't have been in there that long IF at all, and more than likely would not have been in that long in the U.S...48 hours IF on a
weekend arrest perhaps. IF they had just found out what her involvement was from the get-go and did their job as professionals, you know like basic
things like gathering information, then things would have been cleared up sooner rather than later.
I mean come on...they KNEW she was not the murderer. And more than likely they knew who was, because they knew she wanted to identify the man, sketch
his picture but they wouldn't let her. It was all about power and control, and maybe even more so, wanting to silence her for a few days.
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BajaLuna
Senior Nomad
Posts: 581
Registered: 12-5-2012
Location: Pacific Northwest/Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
Mood: groovy
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If no one was there and I wasn't a trained professional (I'm not a medical professional), it wouldn't have mattered, I probably would have jumped in,
not to administer medical help...but just because someone does not have a medical background does not mean they aren't there for other reasons, like
holding someone's hand while they are dying, That is a very important job too, to just BE with someone and comfort them. She wasn't thinking of
herself, she acted intuitively, that's obvious! I just hope if I ever needed help, a helping spirit would appear! She certainly paid her karma forward
10-fold!
[Edited on 10-11-2013 by BajaLuna]
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bajabound2005
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2760
Registered: 10-15-2005
Location: Punta Banda, BCN
Member Is Offline
Mood: words cannot describe...
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actually, I DON'T read nomad anymore; someone sent this to me. only saw that ONE AND ONLY "attempt" at your post of this on pbbb, which WAS posted.
keep your crappy comments to yourself or say them directly to me.
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Barbaric...fer sure.
I've made two efforts to post this on the Punta Banda Bulletin Board, but due to their censorship policy toward me specifically, as well as the owner,
Kathleen Taormina's [aka bajabound 2005 here on the board] involvement with the Baja Image Committee, she won't put it up.
It's a fair and balanced crap fest of restaurant ads there.
May Gawd help the outsider who may be looking for truth of the area on that board. |
Well....they just posted one of them. I appreciate that. Thank you. [Kathleen reads this] |
Friends don't let friends drink white zinfandel.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
That's not my point. If no one was there and if I was a trained medical professional I would go. But someone who hasn't had one iota of medical
background for over 20 years and hears gunshots, why have 2 fatalities instead of one? I understand the logic of the Mexican police being suspicious.
Should we all be lemmings and follow each other off the cliff? What about safety measures? If there are gunshots I don't think you should go out to
the beach period. Leave that responsibility to law enforcement or trained officials. As a medical professional I would not advise anyone untrained
unless it was a dire emergency where no help was available to run out in a potentially fatal environment. I would be putting people in harm's way to
suggest they do what this woman did. She saw someone going for more help, and one fireman was by her side. It's not about having huevos, it's about
knowing your limitations and avoiding a potentially fatal situation. |
Did you even watch her video? She saw
the shooter run away and went to help the victim. I would hope that anyone would do the same thing. For her efforts, in she became a victim of some
very unprofessional police officers, who were obviously not interested in investigating the crime. Once she was in custody, she was denied many of her
basic rights, one of which, the right to contact her consulate, is a violation of article 36 of the Vienna Convention. I think you are very sick to be
blaming the victim here, and being an apologist for a corrupt and unprofessional police department. There was absolutely no excuse for this woman
being treated the way she was.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Where are you getting me blaming the victim? I don't think we should blame the police either. She said if someone had been there 5 minutes early
they could have saved this guy's life. First of all she is complaining about a few minutes' lapse in response from the police. What do you think
they were doing? They were assessing the situation for danger and other people around that could have weapons. I am not blaming her. I am saying
you need to look at the whole situation in its totality. You had a shooting, it could have been a group effort, and her complaining that she was
"holding his guts" in and he was gurgling at the mouth leads me to believe this man was beyond repair. Screaming that the police didn't come
immediately which was only about 5 minutes is understandable because like I said they were assessing the situation. Look what happened to Ron Hoff and
his wife. They decided to be Good Samaritans and check their neighbors' house. They got almost killed in the process. If there had not been
gunfire, yes, by all means go to the beach and help out the person if they were alone. But leave a crime scene to the professionals. What do you
think if Ron and his wife called the police first? They would have not been left for dead. BTW, 5 minutes more would have not made a difference with
the victim, he was obviously bleeding uncontrollably and would not have made it to the hospital in an ambulance ride. I am not agreeing with the way
she was treated either. Doesn't it always have to be all or nothing in an opinion? There were a lot of grey areas to this situation.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabound2005
actually, I DON'T read nomad anymore; someone sent this to me. only saw that ONE AND ONLY "attempt" at your post of this on pbbb, which WAS posted.
keep your crappy comments to yourself or say them directly to me.
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Now Now....you can control my speech on your board, as you often do with silent censorship.....but not here. You blatantly allow some of the
frustrated housewife winos to attack and pile up on me, but refuse my defensive replies to such.
Can't do that here. Stay tuned.
You really should close down that board. It's dead from irrelevance and over exposure to restaurant ads....which NEVER change.
I'm sure the door is now closed for me, but if I make an effort to post, and it's silently rejected, like so many of my efforts are, I'll mention it
here....every time, but you don't read here so what do you care.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Where are you getting me blaming the victim? I don't think we should blame the police either. She said if someone had been there 5 minutes early
they could have saved this guy's life. First of all she is complaining about a few minutes' lapse in response from the police. What do you think
they were doing? They were assessing the situation for danger and other people around that could have weapons. I am not blaming her. I am saying
you need to look at the whole situation in its totality. You had a shooting, it could have been a group effort, and her complaining that she was
"holding his guts" in and he was gurgling at the mouth leads me to believe this man was beyond repair. Screaming that the police didn't come
immediately which was only about 5 minutes is understandable because like I said they were assessing the situation. Look what happened to Ron Hoff and
his wife. They decided to be Good Samaritans and check their neighbors' house. They got almost killed in the process. If there had not been
gunfire, yes, by all means go to the beach and help out the person if they were alone. But leave a crime scene to the professionals. What do you
think if Ron and his wife called the police first? They would have not been left for dead. BTW, 5 minutes more would have not made a difference with
the victim, he was obviously bleeding uncontrollably and would not have made it to the hospital in an ambulance ride. I am not agreeing with the way
she was treated either. Doesn't it always have to be all or nothing in an opinion? There were a lot of grey areas to this situation.
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You are totally being an apologist for the egregious behavior of the Rosarito police. There is absolutely no
excuse for the way they treated Gretchen, animals in the pound receive more humane treatment than she did.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Do something
I posted this on the Talk Baja board, it is reposted here with permission from me...........
*********************************
It is all good and well to post our complaints and problems on this board and other Baja related boards, but we are preaching to the choir.
From personal background and experience, the more noise one makes to various press outlets and elected and appointed officials on both side of the
border, things will change. Nobody likes bad press or politicians breathing down your back.........write the letters, make the calls.
These boards are a great source of information, but complaining on these boards doesn't solve the problem.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
It is all good and well to post our complaints and problems on this board and other Baja related boards, but we are preaching to the choir.
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Better preaching to the choir than talking to the wall......not to mention, there's a vulnerability issue to be considered for those of us who live
down here.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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redmesa
Senior Nomad
Posts: 580
Registered: 3-12-2008
Location: Van Isle and Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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I think Gretchen was very compassionate, brave but fool hearty. Unfortunately, I find myself avoiding any issues or conflicts in Baja that do not
directly involve me because I just think I would do more harm than good with my meager knowledge of the language and culture. Secondly, she allowed
her heart to take over her reason when a paramedic arrived that was the signal for her to back away-- the responsibility should have been passed , be
it for the good or bad it is not anymore her call. We have seen on the board in the past what tragedies can be fall an innocent helping person --so
I think the word is caution when approaching a potentially dangerous situation anywhere in the world. First rule of any aid is to assess the
environment and establish your safety. Obviously, the police did not understand the behaviour of Gretchen but normally in Canada they would have put
her in the police car to calm down and then questioned her. For her to be left in a cell for 72 hours is absolutely horrible and cruel but fighting
with a police person is always a bad idea. It is always a losing situation even when you can speak the language. This is just a heart wrenching
story and I feel so sorry for the innocent victims.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
It is all good and well to post our complaints and problems on this board and other Baja related boards, but we are preaching to the choir.
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Better preaching to the choir than talking to the wall......not to mention, there's a vulnerability issue to be considered for those of us who live
down here. |
Ya know Dennis, it's like the lottery.........if you don't play, you can't win.
And if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Doing nothing but posting on the Baja boards does not solve anything......be passive or be agressive
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13047
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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I think atrocities such as this are important to be discussed and learned from....from all angles. Perhaps someone may contribute a valuable idea or
input to help make some changes so that others may not suffer the same fate.it cant hurt anyway.
thank you Dennis for posting this and being the big man who apologizes when necessary.
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by aguachico
Thanks for sharing that. |
Only 4 videos out of the 223 she has posted on Utube. Always in the right place at the right time to see something and claim it as her own story?
Bob Durrell
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Great JOe ... you be the "Lifeguard" in this case .... 
Thanks Dennis
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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I think there is an apology in order for calling Kathleen's friends a bunch of frustrated housewife winos, that comment was not necessary. There are
plenty of closet homebody male boozers in Punta Banda as well. I have been a victim of The Wrath if I decide to stick up for my point of view here as
well. If a woman does not go along with the flow, they are singled out to be a victim of derision and/or veiled warnings. I enjoy the postings on
the PBBB and yes I agree with Dennis that more balanced news should be available, but hitting below the belt is not necessary, especially to a woman
from a man. I give Kathleen a lot of credit for getting herself in tip top shape and doing probably what no woman her age in the community has done
by riding in the Rosarito Ensenada bicycle race. On this one fact alone Kathleen deserves a token of respect. It seems to me that if we don't do what
others want sometimes we get a severe tongue lashing. I agree with Shari as this situation is something we can learn from definitely.
[Edited on 10-11-2013 by EnsenadaDr]
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
| Quote: | Originally posted by aguachico
Thanks for sharing that. |
Only 4 videos out of the 223 she has posted on Utube. Always in the right place at the right time to see something and claim it as her own story?
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Even if she was combative or interfered with the police, it does not excuse the treatment that she received
in the Rosarito jail. Even the most heinous criminals deserve basic human rights when incarcerated, The fact that she was denied the right to contact
her consulate is particularly disturbing.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Is this the first time you have heard of this Monoloco, living in Mexico? | Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
| Quote: | Originally posted by aguachico
Thanks for sharing that. |
Only 4 videos out of the 223 she has posted on Utube. Always in the right place at the right time to see something and claim it as her own story?
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Even if she was combative or interfered with the police, it does not excuse the treatment that she received
in the Rosarito jail. Even the most heinous criminals deserve basic human rights when incarcerated, The fact that she was denied the right to contact
her consulate is particularly disturbing. |
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