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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
There is no 'normal' but for change... Nobody has been alive long enough to know what 'normal' is.
I think it is funny that just when Jerry Brown (a politician) declares a drought emergency, we next hear big wet rain is coming.
Weather cycles... some years are dry and hot and others are cool and wet. Soon after the 'Global Warming' scare was made, the world temps have been
cooling each year since! Man is not more powerful than Nature, nor can change Nature (the weather). The scam is only making a few rich (including
government) and by raising your taxes, energy costs will not change the weather!   |
Bury your head in the sand, DK. WE, Humans, change nature daily. Was the extermination have several species by firearms an accident of nature?
wake up! We can also decide NOT to do certain things. Happens daily...thank God.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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So you disagree with David K about nature vs humans vis a vis the weather/climate? You throw in GUNS that are used to kill animals? Beyond
pettifogging dude.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Yet my pleas to legislators to at least do a freakin' STUDY of installing a 24' diameter pipeline to California from the Pacific northwet go
unanswered. Such a gigantic pipe under 100 PSI pressure would deliver an amazing amount of water.
Easier to sit back, grab the remote, do nothing and argue...
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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humans kill animals. not guns. guns have no life of their own... Is that your only defense asprey?
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jbcoug
Senior Nomad
Posts: 709
Registered: 9-24-2006
Location: Vancouver, WA
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Mood: Needing Baja!
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DavidE,
I think we will keep our water, thank you very much. A number of studies have in fact been done for projects much larger than your suggestion. A 24"
pipe would make about as much impact as peeing in the ocean. Fortunately these ideas have never gained much traction. Some in the south wouldn't care
if they turned the Columbia into another Colorado. If you want abundant, quality water, feel free to move to the NW. If you want to live where water
is limited, you might want to plan a lifestyle based on available resources.
\"The average dog is a nicer person than the average person.\" Andy Rooney
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Is what my only defense?
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Whale-ista
Super Nomad
Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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The economics of preparing for climate change (whether you believe it or not)
In addition to the water being needed for healthy fishing, forestry and other things, British Columbia and other areas in the Pacific NW use their
water to generate hydroelectric energy and reduce their carbon footprint and reliance on fossil fuels.
For all these reasons, diverting it to the thirsty southerners is not a sustainable option. They make more money out of generating energy than by
selling water.
Better for dry areas with lots of thirsty people and plants to harvest rainwater, reconfigure drains to capture/store rainwater vs. diverting to
stormdrains/rivers/oceans, and reuse municipal water as many times as feasible (e.g., graywater for landscaping).
On a household level people need to install low flow fixtures, minimize landscaping, plant drought tolerant vegetation, etc.
All of these things are being "recommended" by local water authorities, but those reco's could soon become requirements.
As for agricultural areas in the arid SW (both US and MX) that need lots of irrigation: they need to upgrade to "smart" systems that minimize
evaporative loss, cover reservoirs, use drip lines vs spraying etc.
Baja example: The massive greenhouses for Driscoll and others in the Lazaro Card##as area of Baja. These are already conserving water by shifting to
indoor gardening. They use less water, require fewer pesticides/herbicides, and probably offset the construction costs within a few years via these
measures.
Whether you "believe" in climate change or not, these conservation methods make sense for the long run for economic as well as environmental reasons.
As water costs continue to increase, consuming less water and becoming more efficient will make the same sense as consuming less fuel and having more
fuel efficient cars: an economic (as well as environmental) necessity.
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Speaking of oscillations ... in the oceans currents, and changes, there is also a linkage in "winds aloft" and/or "jet steams"
Evidence linking Arctic amplification to extreme weather in mid-latitudes
Bit of a read, however, the findings do provide some degree of explanation for some of the weather extremes which are being observed and documented
http://marine.rutgers.edu/~francis/pres/Francis_Vavrus_2012G...
Current's in the oceans tend to impact many environmental factors and the many "feedback" loops which are linked to same
Watch out for those "pebbles" Osprey 
[Edited on 3-11-2014 by wessongroup]
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jbcoug
DavidE,
I think we will keep our water, thank you very much. A number of studies have in fact been done for projects much larger than your suggestion. A 24"
pipe would make about as much impact as peeing in the ocean. Fortunately these ideas have never gained much traction. Some in the south wouldn't care
if they turned the Columbia into another Colorado. If you want abundant, quality water, feel free to move to the NW. If you want to live where water
is limited, you might want to plan a lifestyle based on available resources. |
' " ' " " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " ' " '
I assssssssssssssumeeeeeed reader could distinguish
24'
from
24"
I assssssssssssssssumeeeeeed incorrecly
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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jbcoug
Senior Nomad
Posts: 709
Registered: 9-24-2006
Location: Vancouver, WA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Needing Baja!
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Sorry for my oversight in your dimensions, my eyes aren't as good as they once were. My position remains the same. Whale-ista describes the situaion
pretty well. We do a good job with our water and would like to keep it.
\"The average dog is a nicer person than the average person.\" Andy Rooney
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oladulce
Super Nomad
Posts: 1625
Registered: 5-30-2005
Location: bcs
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Seen the videos Mr Wood? Might be the same info but easier than reading. Just learned about these videos last week. Wow, great info and the discussion
from 1st week in March (I think), was all about El Niño setup. The videos are like a lecture but in lingo you can understand. Very interesting. Select
"video" at top of page.
http://www.stormsurf.com/
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Whale-ista
Super Nomad
Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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I appreciate all the calculations going on regarding importing water from a distance. This is assuming people want to sell the water in the first
place. Ongoing drought and Shortages of water will drive prices up just as with any limited resource.
Moving water also costs a lot of money. In the state of California the largest single use of electricity is to pump water. So in the end you wind up
paying more to move water versus use local water more efficiently.
It makes more sense in the long run to figure out how to reduce water usage and conserve what you have. Changing weather patterns will make this more
difficult in the years ahead but smart communities are making long-term plans.
Consider how they are managing this in Tijuana by diverting treated wastewater for reuse instead of dumping it out to sea.
In San Diego they have 2 water reclamation plants (but both are underutilized.) A desalination plant is also under construction near Carlsbad. And
they are paying people rebates for installing rainwater and graywater systems and for removing grass and replacing it with drought tolerant
landscaping.
Bottom line: if the rains continue to be sporadic and the drought continues, lots of strategies will be required in addition to water transfers.
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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jbcoug
I hope you can keep your water right there where it belongs! Owens' Valley is paying dearly for the past when Los Angeles discovered our water and
took it. And they don't play fair and the Valley has to fight constantly with the LADWP and they have deep pockets. One small, but important
example; Mono Lake was only saved because of Environmental Laws passed, I believe in the 70s.
And with the drought, they was more and more and I doubt that 1 in 10 people in Los Angeles have a clue as to where their water comes from, nor do
they care.
Last year there was a living art project that started up here in ended up in Los Angeles marking the 100th anniversary of the Los Angeles Aquaduct.
In strings of ten, 100 mules and their handlers, etc., walked from the Intake up here to Los Angeles. A part of the project was to try and raise
awareness of this part of the state so maybe the DWP would be fairer with the water. It was quite a beautiful site to see.
When they arrived in Los Angeles, we watched the Los Angeles news every night to see what would be said. NOTHING! And it is not like they ignored
the 100 anniversary of the aquaduct, as they covered some skit that was preformed at the aquaduct that was in praise of Mulholland. BTW--- Mulholland
also thought the water from Yosemite should be taken for Los Angeles. Fortunately, that didn't happen!
And with the drought, they just continue to want more and more and don't give a rip as to what is happening up here.
So KEEP your water as they will never be satisfied.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64705
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Humans can't change weather.... That is the 'Nature' I am speaking of, because if I said God half of you would really flip out.
Volcanos, sunspots, meteors, wobble in earth's rotation axis can affect weather/ climate (acts of Nature/ God). One thing's for sure, the planet is
NOT static, it is dynamic (changes) and has been long before man or fossil fuel use!!! We are in a COOLING trend now... happened right after Al Gore
made his deceptive movie with reversed graphs. In the 70's it was announced we were going into an ice age by the fanatics who didn't get the drama
they needed so changed their story to global warming!
I contest that some government agency that wants more of your money for his job security (or ex-vice president) can change the weather by making all
of us poorer. A scam is a scam... the climate changes 'naturally' and not because we drive cars or produce food and products used in the rest of the
world.
Once you believe man is greater than Nature/ God, then you really have surrendered your core to the socialists who want to control everything you do
while they continue to live like kings. I think we should be good to our planet and continue to be cleaning up messes... but not to accept total blame
when we are cleaner and pay more than any other country to clean up the environment.
Frank, I never said a thing about pipes, so check again and reply to the Nomad who did, please.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18014
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Humans can't change weather.... |
that's BS. lots of proof that man's air emissions can change weather, short term and long term...
here is 1 interesting article on how contrails influence weather: http://www.csmonitor.com/Environment/Bright-Green/2010/0201/...
the debate is only about the magnitude of our effects on weather, and whether it is feasible to reduce our pollution that effects weather
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64705
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Just one volcano erupting produces many times more 'poison gas' than man has done... and the earth is still alive. Nature takes care of it.
It will be nice when we are using non-polluting fuels to fly around... but this isn't Star Trek, and until we develop that technology it will be okay
here.
By the way, that photo in your link of contrails... a good laugh, thanks. Contrails are water clouds created when the hot jet exhaust meets the icy
cold air... not smoke.
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4332
Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
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Appreciate you clearing that up for us. I will be sure and forward this link to the 97% of Climate Scientists (people who are actual scientists and
who study actual climate science) surveyed who obviously have it all wrong. I know they will be convinced to change their tune after hearing about
your first hand observations at shell island and your conspiracy theories about evil government trying to scam us out of every last dime so they can
continue their march to socialism. By the way which God is in control?
Respectfully,
elgatoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Humans can't change weather.... That is the 'Nature' I am speaking of, because if I said God half of you would really flip out.
Volcanos, sunspots, meteors, wobble in earth's rotation axis can affect weather/ climate (acts of Nature/ God). One thing's for sure, the planet is
NOT static, it is dynamic (changes) and has been long before man or fossil fuel use!!! We are in a COOLING trend now... happened right after Al Gore
made his deceptive movie with reversed graphs. In the 70's it was announced we were going into an ice age by the fanatics who didn't get the drama
they needed so changed their story to global warming!
I contest that some government agency that wants more of your money for his job security (or ex-vice president) can change the weather by making all
of us poorer. A scam is a scam... the climate changes 'naturally' and not because we drive cars or produce food and products used in the rest of the
world.
Once you believe man is greater than Nature/ God, then you really have surrendered your core to the socialists who want to control everything you do
while they continue to live like kings. I think we should be good to our planet and continue to be cleaning up messes... but not to accept total blame
when we are cleaner and pay more than any other country to clean up the environment.
Frank, I never said a thing about pipes, so check again and reply to the Nomad who did, please. |
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18014
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Contrails are water clouds created when the hot jet exhaust meets the icy cold air... not smoke. |
thank you for that irrelevant trivia
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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The Idea Wouldn't Work Anyway :(
| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
Good lord David... I am trying to wrap my head around such a volume being delivered at such high pressure for that size pipe!
Just figuring friction loss alone in that length of pipe depending on construction, bends, lift stations, relay pumping, gravity loss/gain..... I know
it can be done but I don't have the education to do it justice.
I do know that I could shove 1100+gpm through a two inch nozzle at 80 psi.... but, I would have to take into account all the friction loss to get it
to that nozzle.... granted, the friction loss in a 24' pipe would be minimal but over the course of all those miles it all adds up!
What numbers did you come up with?
I came up with, specifically, a sh!tload.
I know there are a significant number of Pacific North Westers that would, rightfully so, tell all those numbskulls living in the desert to pay the
nut on another source..... |
Not even with Direct Current hydroelectric generation aiding pumping stations humping over the cascades.
The politicians and speculators would get their hands on the water and agriculture would not benefit. Vast lawns and olympic size swimming pools in
Malley-Boo and Hollyweird would get first dibs.
The water would have to go into narrow and deep concrete lined canals and be constitutionally mandated for agriculture.
Keep dreaming David 
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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97% of the Climate Scientists surveyed? That survey has already been debunked. Facts aren't agreeing with the climate change model, don't guess we
need any "stinking facts". Ignoring and insulting anyone that might disagree with the politically correct crowd is the usual response. As far as the
water situation? Those folks in that region better get very innovative. 
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