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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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There IS that "39 foot high" earth berm between the SOC and the Salton Sea basin---------sea-rise would have to exceed THAT.
There was a big surge of controlled Colorado River flow back into the Delta this winter----results are still being figured out.. I was involved in
the "surge" back in the late '70's early '80's and witnessed by canoe and power-boat over many days the delta flourishing during and within weeks of
that surge. The growth of wildlife and vegetation was all very exciting, and amazing to see how fast the eco-system began it's rapid recovery!!! We
covered the Delta from just below Morelos Diversion Dam to the upper reaches of Montague Island on several trips by canoe above Yuri-Muri and Gregor
tin-boat with motor below Yuri-Muri..
Barry
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SFandH
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I bet the Colorado river delta was a beautiful place in its natural state. Did the Kumeyaay live there?
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wessongroup
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Nice work ... if ya can find it 
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Barry A.
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Yes, I was very lucky. One of my BLM guys in El Centro, Steve Nelson, was a Recreation Planner with an extreme side-interest in the Delta area as a
hobby. He became so knowledgeable on the Delta that the Mexican Govt. uses him as one of the experts advising them on the future of the Colorado
Delta. My grown son and I got to go along with him on many of his studies in the Delta, mostly because I had the boats, and he was a friend.
Seeing the surge in bird life, as well as many other kinds of life coming alive including millions of fresh-water-clams, and lots of predators big and
small, in the refreshed delta was simply astounding and delightful!!! We felt like we were on an Africa Queen adventure!!! and never saw anybody
else out there. It's one huge delta!!!
Google: "Steve Nelson, Colorado River Delta"
Barry
[Edited on 3-18-2015 by Barry A.]
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David K
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Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha  | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Just wondering how the wonderful sea survived when Nature cut the flow many times in the past, for 100's or 1000's of years at a time? Our big dams
have only been on the river less than 100 years. |
*sigh* Again, DK's inevitable 'man vs. god' debate on 'we ain't doin' nothing wrong'. Yes, the dams have only been there less than 100 years and have
caused an amazing devastation in a very short time. Yes, the river has diverted and been dammed by lava flows several times in geologic history, and
i'm sure there were great changes, possibly cataclysmic then, too.
But, this time, it's OUR DOING.
And, if you would've read an earlier post of mine on this thread, I did predict the SOC will be just fine and recover albeit maybe somewhat altered
once Mother sees fit to remove the current blight.
By the way, eaten any shrimp lately? I don't. |
Sigh... is it you like to dump guilt on yourself and others? Eating shrimp? Cows cause global warming, so stop eating carne asada! LOL
How is no water in the delta worse if it is caused by us (and as Barry said, we can release some every few years) vs. caused by Nature, and the delta
stays dry for a thousand years?
I am promoting THINKING not that one way is right over another... but please THINK!
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | I bet the Colorado river delta was a beautiful place in its natural state. Did the Kumeyaay live there? |
By "natural state" I assume you mean in this case, pre-man??
Not sure who lived there, but there is a lot of mild evidence that American Indians were present, at least seasonally, which seems logical considering
what an oasis in the desert it was, and it does appear that it was teaming with wildlife judging by our experience. The Indians of northern Baja and
the lower Colorado River basin were pretty fractured, tribal, and un-structured so hard to pin down just exactly who they were.
I tend to come down on the side of-------yes, man does cause change, for sure, but I believe it is a mostly a mere blip in the scheme of earthly
things long term, but I only have my own experience and observations to make that judgment.
Barry
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David K
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| Quote: Originally posted by SFandH | | I bet the Colorado river delta was a beautiful place in its natural state. Did the Kumeyaay live there? |
It was the Cocopah, and they still do... a museum is just south of Rio Hardy (El Mayor)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocopah
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Barry A.
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Good stuff!! Thanks, David.
Barry
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Cliffy
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"I tend to come down on the side of-------yes, man does cause change, for sure, but I believe it is a mostly a mere blip in the scheme of earthly
things long term, but I only have my own experience and observations to make that judgment. "
Right on point! Perfect summation.
But again, why is "natural = pre-man"? Why is man always considered "not a natural evolutionary process of the Earth"?
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azucena
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Of course humans are a PART of the evolutionary process of the planet. PART is the key word here , and this does not abdicate us from being good
stewards of the place we live. If we don't care for what sustains us part of the evolutionary process will ensure we do not continue to exist. Part
of being a good steward is ensuring the survival of other species.
The problems facing our beloved Baja are occurring world wide, as several posters have noted. And as well ,it was pointed out how the resources are
being decimated at a profound level. The over fishing for commercial purposes is a significant problem, but it is only part of the over utilization
of many resources , not to mention the effects of pollution of our seas and rivers.
One can live without many things, but drinkable water is not one of them.
The Sea of Cortez has long been considered one of the most important "nurseries " of a huge number of species , including fish, birds, which may seem
to some as not all that significant. However, their well being is an intrinsic connection to other species. There is an old saying : Thou cannot
disturb a flower without troubling a star.
I think we need to redefine what our PART is of the evolutionary process of the planet.
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blackwolfmt
Senior Nomad
Posts: 802
Registered: 1-18-2014
Location: On The Beach With A Blackwolf
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Mood: dreamin of Riden out a hurricane in Baja
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| Quote: Originally posted by azucena | Of course humans are a PART of the evolutionary process of the planet. PART is the key word here , and this does not abdicate us from being good
stewards of the place we live. If we don't care for what sustains us part of the evolutionary process will ensure we do not continue to exist. Part
of being a good steward is ensuring the survival of other species.
The problems facing our beloved Baja are occurring world wide, as several posters have noted. And as well ,it was pointed out how the resources are
being decimated at a profound level. The over fishing for commercial purposes is a significant problem, but it is only part of the over utilization
of many resources , not to mention the effects of pollution of our seas and rivers.
One can live without many things, but drinkable water is not one of them.
The Sea of Cortez has long been considered one of the most important "nurseries " of a huge number of species , including fish, birds, which may seem
to some as not all that significant. However, their well being is an intrinsic connection to other species. There is an old saying : Thou cannot
disturb a flower without troubling a star.
I think we need to redefine what our PART is of the evolutionary process of the planet. |
WORD
So understand dont waste your time always searching for those wasted years
face up and make your stand and realize that your living in the golden years
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Cliffy
Senior Nomad
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Registered: 12-19-2013
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azucena I can agree with most of what you say How each side meets on mutually beneficial ground is the question. The environmental pendulum swings
way too far each way with the political winds.
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azucena
Nomad
Posts: 193
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Here in lies the problem : This is NOT a political issue, although it may present itself as such, and thus creates polarization. Cliffy you are
correct in terms of reaching a mutually beneficial ground, but it cannot be about what "side" you are on. It reaches far beyond any political
spectra. It is a human and species issue that effects all of us and our children, grandchildren every other living thing that inhabits this great blue
and green planet we live on. we are all responsible and ultimately, can do our part, for instance by asking ourselves when we buy something do we
really need this? Where did it come from , how was it made, and from what? If we quit buying crap from China, for example, how long will they
continue to make it? Individual choices have power and can blow way farther than political winds. i realize this conversation has swayed from what is
happening to the Sea of Cortez, but really it is on point to what is happening here.
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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"You shoot a mirror up into space so that it is traveling faster than the speed of light (there's the rub). Then you can look in the mirror and watch
all the earth's previous history unfolding as on a movie screen....on the melting of pack ice, the green filling of ponds, the tidal swing of the
Severn Bore....
...the glaciers of Greenland, some of which creak along at such a fast clip that even the dogs bark at them...the invasion of the southernmost
Canadian tundra by the northernmost spruce-fir-forest, which is happening right now at the rate of a mile every ten years. When the last ice sheet
receded from the North American Continent, the earth rebounded ten feet. Wouldn't that have been a sight to see?
..."an infinite storm of beauty."
The beginning is swaddled in mists, blasted by random blinding flashes. Lava pours and cool; seas boil and flood. Clouds materialize and shift; now
you can see the earth''s face through only random patches of clarity. The land shudders and splits, like pack ice rent by a widening lead. Mountains
burst up, jutting, and dull and soften before your eyes, clothed in forests like felt. The ice rolls up, grinding green land under water forever; The
ice rolls back. Forests erupt and disappear like fairy rings. The ice rolls up-mountains are mowed into lakes, land rises wet from the sea like a
surfacing whale-the ice rolls back.
A blue-green streaks the highest ridges, a yellow-green spreads from the south like a wave up a strand. A red dye seems to leak from the north down
the ridges and into the valleys, seeping south; a white follows the red, then yellow-green washes north, then red spreads again, then white, over and
over, making patterns of color too swift and intricate to follow....You see dust storms, locusts, floods, in dizzying flash-frames.
Zero in on a well-watered shore and see smoke from fires drifting. Stone cities rise, spread, and crumble, like patches of alpine blossoms that
flourish for a day and inch above the permafrost, that iced earth no root can suck, and wither in an hour.
New cities appear, and rivers sift silt onto their rooftops; more cities emerge and spread like lichen on rock. The great human figures of history,
those intricate, spirited tissues that roamed the earth's surface, are a wavering blur whose split second in the light was too brief an exposure to
yield any image but the hunched, shadowless figures of ghosts.
The great herds of caribou pour into the valleys like slag, and trickle back, and pour, a brown fluid.
Slow it down more, come closer still. A dot appears, a flesh-flake. It swells like a balloon; it moves, circles, slows and vanishes. This is your
life."
Thank you Annie.
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azucena
Nomad
Posts: 193
Registered: 8-25-2012
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Gorgeous Thanks
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redhilltown
Super Nomad
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Registered: 1-24-2009
Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by bajabuddha | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Just wondering how the wonderful sea survived when Nature cut the flow many times in the past, for 100's or 1000's of years at a time? Our big dams
have only been on the river less than 100 years. |
*sigh* Again, DK's inevitable 'man vs. god' debate on 'we ain't doin' nothing wrong'. Yes, the dams have only been there less than 100 years and have
caused an amazing devastation in a very short time. Yes, the river has diverted and been dammed by lava flows several times in geologic history, and
i'm sure there were great changes, possibly cataclysmic then, too.
But, this time, it's OUR DOING.
And, if you would've read an earlier post of mine on this thread, I did predict the SOC will be just fine and recover albeit maybe somewhat altered
once Mother sees fit to remove the current blight.
By the way, eaten any shrimp lately? I don't. |
Sigh... is it you like to dump guilt on yourself and others? Eating shrimp? Cows cause global warming, so stop eating carne asada! LOL
How is no water in the delta worse if it is caused by us (and as Barry said, we can release some every few years) vs. caused by Nature, and the delta
stays dry for a thousand years?
I am promoting THINKING not that one way is right over another... but please THINK! |
If you are promoting "thinking" shouldn't you be doing some?
You mock people who are appalled by the destruction of shrimping...you mock people who make any connection to the ridiculous amounts of water and
wasted grain used to feed livestock shoved in feedlots and hammered with antibiotics and god knows what else because it may interfere with your right
to go to the market and buy something wrapped in plastic to throw on the bbq.
"Nature" never had four billion humans. It is not the same world yet you continue---over and over---to make the comparison like it is.
[Edited on 3-19-2015 by redhilltown]
[Edited on 3-19-2015 by redhilltown]
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Tod
Junior Nomad
Posts: 98
Registered: 3-20-2009
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When I was a kid in San Diego there a lot of my friend's fathers ran or worked on long range tuna boats. Puget Sound had a lot of salmon at one time
as did the Columbia River and Barkley Sound off Vancouver Island to name a few. Many of the working fishing harbors up and down the West Coast became
trendy shops and restaurants (Dana Point Harbor) with a paltry number of commercial fishing boats left. The same arguments that the fisherman had to
earn a paycheck and the lack of any effective regulation led to the demise of a vibrant fishing economy on the West Coast.
All to say, we NOB have been pretty good at being lousy fish stock and habitat managers and it is hard to imagine SOC turning around at any point
soon.
Punta Lobo fisherman began using nets in large numbers about 3 years ago and immediately the reduction in fish was noticed. Many of them now routinely
go 20 miles north for good fishing.
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BajaBean
Junior Nomad
Posts: 66
Registered: 3-17-2015
Location: Hemet CA
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Mood: Garboso
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Cisco Such prose washes over my soul like a gentile spring rain and nourishes my very being. I shall read it again and again until perchance I can
recite it verbatim.
Thank you.
The opposite of love is not hate. It is indifference.
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Martyman
Super Nomad
Posts: 1904
Registered: 9-10-2004
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Right there with you Buddha. When I see the sun with the sunglasses I just go right on by. My time is more valuable.
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SFandH
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7084
Registered: 8-5-2011
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Not pre-man, pre-dam.
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