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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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This road is not the Federal zone, David...but to help you understan what access mean for the Federal zone... from Bajainside.com
1. - What are everyone’s rights regarding the area called “Zona Federal Maritimo Terreste (Z.F.M.T.) (Federal Maritime Land Zone?
Share with:
According to the Constitution of Mexico the area covering 20 meters (72.17 feet) from high tide is designated as property of the nation. This means
that every person has a right to access the area. This does not mean that one can trash it, ride it, sleep on it or make a campfire on it, which
actions are considered felonies under the law.
2. - How can one gain access to the area (beach or rock coast)?
The answer is each owner of properties in front of the Z.F.M.T, has to provide access.
3. - What does the word access mean?
Access means that a ‘path’ must be provided. Since we are dealing with private property it also means that a legal right of way must be established.
In Spanish this is called a “Servidumbre de Paseo” (Servitude of passage or Right of Way) as per Article 1057 to 1067, 1068 to 1070 and 1097 to 1108
of the Federal Civil Code and its collaterals in the Civil Code for the State of Baja California Sur.
4. - Physically, what would be the “Right of Way”?
According to the law, the Federal organization call SAMARNAT, which is the environmental watch dog” has the authority to establish said dimensions as
per the requirements, location and other parameters.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64749
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Reading challenged?
Charging to cross PRIVATE PROPERTY to access the PLAYA is what I said it was the same as.
Not paying to camp on her land, or camp anywhere near her land. She was charging 100 pesos just to cross a half mile of it to get to the other side,
on a long existing open road.
This was a NEW thing since myself, Ken Cooke or ANYONE in our group had ever seen before... and many of us had been on that road for many years.
Reporting on what's NEW and different from before. We paid her, so get over it. Why do you read about other's trips just to make some drama out of it.
You don't ever POST YOUR OWN TRIP REPORTS and let the members pick it apart, do you guys? Sorry you didn't go, but everyone here was invited, so don't
ruin it for other Nomads because you weren't having fun on Easter.
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
Member Is Offline
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | Reading challenged?
Charging to cross PRIVATE PROPERTY to access the PLAYA is what I said it was the same as.
Not paying to camp on her land, or camp anywhere near her land. She was charging 100 pesos just to cross a half mile of it to get to the other side,
on a long existing open road.
This was a NEW thing since myself, Ken Cooke or ANYONE in our group had ever seen before... and many of us had been on that road for many years.
Reporting on what's NEW and different from before. We paid her, so get over it. Why do you read about other's trips just to make some drama out of it.
You don't ever POST YOUR OWN TRIP REPORTS and let the members pick it apart, do you guys? Sorry you didn't go, but everyone here was invited, so don't
ruin it for other Nomads because you weren't having fun on Easter. |
David, relax a bit. You challenged the lady for charging to cross her land. She has every right to charge you to cross her land. I'm surprised that
you are anti-capitalist.
I do appreciate the information and the trip report.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64749
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Stop it already... I just asked her what 100 pesos was for since we were not staying on her land (I didn't see any facilities normally associated with
a fee, no palapas, no road changes), someone in the group asked her for a group rate, otherwise all 15 vehicles were ready to go to the graded road.
She probably retired for the day after we gave her a mordida for use of an existing road she had nothing to do with.
When the owner of land the road to Abreojos or Asuncion crosses over does the same thing to you guys, let's see how quiet you are. LOL
Piracy is what some call it... it was an existing road. The land was used for the performance by Luciano Pavarotti back a dozen years ago. A monument
to the event is still there.
http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/mexico/20031012-9999_mz1c1...
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
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Mood: Current
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DK, Maybe she is buying locks for the ranchers that are getting theirs cut off. 
Maybe if less people knew about the place/road, less would go and there would be less of a incentive to charge. It sucks when it effects you, now
doesn't it. As Baja gets more people, the pristine and unmolested places become harder to find and harder to get to. That has always been my point.
You paid to cross her land, she has every right to charge you. If you wanted to camp it might have been more.
As for those that don't post reports that is our business. Maybe what we do is Baja is for us and we don't need to let others know our lives. I am a
butt-head.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64749
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: Originally posted by MMc | DK, Maybe she is buying locks for the ranchers that are getting theirs cut off.
Maybe if less people knew about the place/road, less would go and there would be less of a incentive to charge. It sucks when it effects you, now
doesn't it. As Baja gets more people, the pristine and unmolested places become harder to find and harder to get to. That has always been my point.
You paid to cross her land, she has every right to charge you. If you wanted to camp it might have been more.
As for those that don't post reports that is our business. Maybe what we do is Baja is for us and we don't need to let others know our lives. I am a
butt-head. |
Oh, that's okay... it was Ken's tour... I was just along for the ride, but as a 'reporter' of Baja stuff, I had to ask. There was a CODE race the next
weekend, and she was set up to get all the dinero she could from off road racer prerunners and support people... We just happened upon her operation
on a event weekend. As I said, on Tuesday, she was not there... FREE ACCESS to the Playa Laguna Salada!
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BornFisher
Super Nomad
Posts: 2107
Registered: 1-11-2005
Location: K-38 Santa Martha/Encinitas
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Seems to me, opinions here are all based on what side of the fence you`re on!!!
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3288
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
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Mood: Tranquilo
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| Quote: Originally posted by StuckSucks | | Are we noticing a trend? When I drove into Punta Conejo in November for a race, someone at the gate (who had not been there in prior days), collected
$10 from each of us as a "beach cleaning fee." |
I was at Punta Conejo for the Baja 1000 too, I think it was 50 pesos for us to get in. Before I left I had to walk across the area where everyone was
camped to get my Baja dog who had found an especially good pile of trash and wasn't about to come when I called. The whole area was a trash pile, it
was disgraceful. I can see why they would need to charge a land use fee.
We have been pre running the Baja 500 sur for the past few days. We have encountered a number of locked gates on the course with ranchers there to
collect a fee from the pre runners to pass. One rancher that we visited with said he hadn't been paid by SCORE and that the pre runners were tearing
up his road. I heard a second hand report of an angry rancher who's bull was hit by a car....not first hand so I can't vouch for the validity of the
story.
We ride down here a lot. We see more and more gates, most unlocked but some locked. Some ranchers will give you a key or share the combination with
you once they get to know you. We always try to be respectful and pass their livestock as quietly as possible. It seems to be working for us.
I've never challenged anyone wanting a fee to pass a certain point in the road, a few bucks isn't going to make or break me. A smile and some chit
chat go a long way toward being welcome the next time. It's part of the "Baja experience" for me, it gives me a chance to ask questions about the
area, get some tips about other possible interesting places to ride and practice my Spanish. A couple of "steekers" go a long way toward making
friends too....
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Stop it already... I just asked her what 100 pesos was for since we were not staying on her land (I didn't see any facilities normally associated with
a fee, no palapas, no road changes), someone in the group asked her for a group rate, otherwise all 15 vehicles were ready to go to the graded road.
She probably retired for the day after we gave her a mordida for use of an existing road she had nothing to do with.
When the owner of land the road to Abreojos or Asuncion crosses over does the same thing to you guys, let's see how quiet you are. LOL
Piracy is what some call it... it was an existing road. The land was used for the performance by Luciano Pavarotti back a dozen years ago. A monument
to the event is still there.
http://legacy.utsandiego.com/news/mexico/20031012-9999_mz1c1...
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When the road was paved to Abreojos, the Ejido was payed for the right of way. When the land owners blocked the short cut to my house I started
taking the "right of way" route. No big deal. No piracy.
Calm down David....when someone puts their face out there as much as you do, they are going to be subject to criticism. Get some thick skin or do
as others do and quietly share your trips.
Could be worse, what if this was not a censored site.
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Maderita
Senior Nomad
Posts: 667
Registered: 12-14-2008
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
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By my count, there are at least 4 people posting on this thread who assert that the woman has a legal right to charge people to pass through her land.
It appears that these people know little or nothing about Mexican law when it comes to land use and public access/easements. It also looks like those
posters are trying to be contentious, or specifically contrary with David K.
As I stated, the case has been filed in court. The outcome is up to attorneys and the judge.
The local ranchers/farmers may win their case to keep the road open and free, but it is a slow process through the judicial system.
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bajatrailrider
Super Nomad
Posts: 2427
Registered: 1-24-2015
Location: Mexico
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Mood: Happy
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10/4 Maderita, I will bet money to the 4 posters,the ranchers will win. This tactic was done in San Vicente,the ranchers won every time.In court or
out of court.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Maderita | By my count, there are at least 4 people posting on this thread who assert that the woman has a legal right to charge people to pass through her land.
It appears that these people know little or nothing about Mexican law when it comes to land use and public access/easements. It also looks like those
posters are trying to be contentious, or specifically contrary with David K.
As I stated, the case has been filed in court. The outcome is up to attorneys and the judge.
The local ranchers/farmers may win their case to keep the road open and free, but it is a slow process through the judicial system.
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Just because a case is filed does not mean anything in Mexico. You have seen multiple examples right here on NOMADS. Federal Zone fight in Ensenada.
Land ownership fight in Concepcion Bay. San Pedro Martir right of way issues. Some of these are still going back and forth...file and refile.
wait until a change in politics refile again.... spread some money around....
don't be so naive to think you know property law, Madrita. I think this poor lady is at a disadvantage only because the "toll" she extracts is not
going to be enough to spread around..
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MMc
Super Nomad
Posts: 1679
Registered: 6-29-2011
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Mood: Current
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I did not purchase a lot in Southern Baja over something very similar. I talked to both lawyers in La Paz and Mexico City. Both said I it was a tough
call as to whether I would have free easement onto a lot. I moved on not willing to get into a lawsuit or pay for access.
Ranchers might win, gringos not so much.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W.C.Fields
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