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brewer
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The house passed a bill denying people the right to know. I think that is wrong. You should be able to make a choice between GMO and non-GMO foods
if you want. It's bull$ it.
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chuckie
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Actually you are pretty much spot on...Gets a lot of discussion out here in the State that grows your food.....Sort of an aside, we Farmer Ranchers
seldom buy meats from place like Walmart because we see what happens to it after we deliver it to the feed lots....We are fortunate to still have
enough local locker plants and ranch butchers to buy meat that is from local ranches/farms....In fact one of our processors posts the name of the
ranch from which it came from....IE: Chuckie/off grass-corn finished. The only "Fly over state I know of is Kalifornia, person would have to be crazy
to set foot in it.....
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SFandH
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Thanks for taking the time to contribute Don Jorge. I did a little reading and video watching yesterday about GMOs and my concern about GMOs has
shifted.
I was concerned about eating GMOs because of the gene modifications. Now I'm more concerned about eating Roundup!
Do I have this right? Monsanto has developed by genetic engineering soy and corn that is not killed by its herbicide Roundup. Therefore farmers can
now spray Roundup directly upon the crops, killing the weeds but not the crop. I read that this results in food contaminated with Roundup which is
composed of a chemical that is a possible carcinogen. And, the level of contamination is above allowable limits so the FDA raised the allowable
limits.
Chuckie ?????
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wilderone
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One of the reasons there is so much opposition to GMO corn in Mexico, is that there are hundreds of regional varieties - varieties that grow best in
unique ecosystems where small villages grow these varieties and where corn is a staple food item. In the highlands with plenty of water, other
regions where it is hot; short growing seasons. Corn for flour, roasted ears or on the cob. Also, the main reason is that GMO corn must always be sown
with new seed - not with seed corn saved from the last harvest. If GMO corn replaced all the regional varieties, small farmers in small villages in
remote parts of Mexico would be dependent on a US Multinational with limited options and at a price that is likely prohibitive. More importantly,
once GMO corn is introduced, the regional varieties that have thrived for hundreds of years, and tended by families, would disappear forever. It's
not a leap to assume that many people would go hungry if they were unable to grow their own corn, being unable or unwilling to take the GMO option.
In Chiapas the Zapatistas have a seed bank to preserve the many strains of corn grown in the area. There was a movement years ago for supportive
individuals in Mexico and the US to take corn, plant it and then send the corn to the seed bank. Not sure, but I think this effort is ongoing. The
seed bank requires a regulated temperature and careful storage. On a global basis, GMO strains grown where they shouldn't have long-term consequences
detrimental to the ultimate goal of feeding humans.
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Skipjack Joe
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Quote: Originally posted by brewer  | | The house passed a bill denying people the right to know. I think that is wrong. You should be able to make a choice between GMO and non-GMO foods
if you want. It's bull$ it. |
Bingo.
This is the only post that addresses the issue. The question is not whether GMOs are safe or not. The question is whether we have a right to know of
their presence. The House has voted to withhold information from the public. I find that outrageous. This is not a question of national security. The
public has a right to know. We are not a police state. This is not the Soviet Union.
The fear must be that some will not purchase the GMOs. That's a right the consumer should have. If the non GMO is more expensive the buyer can decide
how to spend his money.
[Edited on 8-1-2015 by Skipjack Joe]
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe | | Quote: Originally posted by brewer | | The house passed a bill denying people the right to know. I think that is wrong. You should be able to make a choice between GMO and non-GMO foods
if you want. It's bull$ it. |
Bingo.
This is the only post that addresses the issue. The question is not whether GMOs are safe or not. The question is whether we have a right to know of
their presence. The House has voted to withhold information from the public. I find that outrageous. This is not a question of national security. The
public has a right to know. We are not a police state. This is not the Soviet Union.
The fear must be that some will not purchase the GMOs. That's a right the consumer should have. If the non GMO is more expensive the buyer can decide
how to spend his money.
[Edited on 8-1-2015 by Skipjack Joe] |
Yes that is the original issue and then the subject veered to safety. But the two (labeling and safety) are related. To be the devil's advocate, if
GMOs were in fact safe, wouldn't the labeling be an unnecessary expense borne by the consumer? Also, doesn't labeling imply an unsafe aspect?
And then the third aspect is the disruption to the natural seed supply, as wilderone pointed out, and the fact that farmers that use Monsanto patented
seeds can't save seeds from a harvest to use the next year. They have to buy seeds again. I think that is bulchit too.
[Edited on 8-1-2015 by SFandH]
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SFandH
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| Quote: Originally posted by chuckie |
Sort of an aside, we Farmer Ranchers seldom buy meats from place like Walmart because we see what happens to it after we deliver it to the feed
lots.... |
[Edited on 8-1-2015 by SFandH]
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Skipjack Joe
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To me the lack of labeling implies protection for the seller.
If the GMOs are safe than what does the seller have to fear? No. Implication is not an argument. That is the sort of argument a police state uses. It
hides information for the BENEFIT of its citizens. That's not a road we want to follow.
In my view the right thing to do is to label them correctly and then provide the data and arguments that it is safe.
Isn't there a Ralph Nader out there? I thought this country had grown past this.
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SFandH
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This is from Public Citizen, founded by Ralph Nader.
The US biotech industry is trying to undo the European Union's GMO labeling requirements.
http://www.citizen.org/documents/TAFTA-GMO-factsheet.pdf
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bajalearner
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| Quote: Originally posted by BajaRat | Once again it's money before ethics and that's been the business model for a long time... We aren't even touching the ecological and environmental
impact that is undeniably taking place as a result of these chemicals and practices.
Those Dems and Reps have done their masters proud once again and like Pavlov's Dog their eagerly waiting to push the button for another campaign
contribution.
All we asked for was a choice and they wouldn't give it to us.
They have made it pretty obvious they represent Big Business Not The Consumer  |
Bajarat, with all due respect, I know I need to eat everyday and I'm competing with 5 billion other people for food (FIVE BILLION). I choose not to
have a garden or farm or raise animals for food.
I'm thinking uncle Jed and aunt Bea would not be able to produce enough food for everyone if it were left up to them.
I have found more food than I need at every American or Mexican grocery store I've been to. I don't blame companies for providing enough food to feed
5 billion people. Yes,they do it for profit. They do it to take home a paycheck to buy the same food that I do so they can feed their families.
I've eaten for 61 years and still alive, even very healthy. My life expectancy age continues to rise.
If there's a way to provide enough food for 5 billion people without controlling pests or adding nuetrients to the soil, we should probably try that.
Oh wait, we did try that, I forgot. We learned needed to find ways to produce more affordable food.
And just wait...more mouths to feed arrive every second. The "money before ethics" arguement is short sighted, maybe evern blind to reality.
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wessongroup
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The production of food and fiber for all isn't something that is easy ... rather very difficult from many, many aspects
Production AG as it currently exists is about the only way we® can feed the entire world population, and that is very hard even with all the "tools"
available
And it is very difficult to make some of these Health and/or Environmental calls ... unless there is immediate threat to health and/or the environment
About the best one can do ... is to set levels of exposure which are "deemed" as reasonable ... and good luck with that one
The best example lately ... the Supreme Courts Ruling on "emissions" from the burning of coal to produce power
About all one can hope for ... keep the ship of state heading up stream .. in the "middle" ... and that one isn't easy either
As for Roundup ... it was classified as a Class C carcinogen back in 85 ..
"1985: The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) was aware of the herbicide’s ability to cause cancer 30 years ago, even categorizing it as a ‘Class C
Carcinogen.” Class C carcinogens have “suggestive evidence of carcinogenic potential.”
Read more: http://www.care2.com/greenliving/epa-classified-roundup-as-c...
Overall .. eating BBQ meat poses great risk to cancer than Roundup ... just saying
"enzo(a)pyrene (BaP) is a polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon (PAH) that is a byproduct of incomplete combustion or burning of organic (carbon-containing)
items, e.g., cigarettes, gasoline, and wood (1). Pure BaP crystals are pale yellow and needlelike with a faint odor (1). BaP is commonly found with
other PAHs in cigarette smoke, in grilled and broiled foods, and as a by-product of many industrial processes (1). BaP is also found in ambient
(outdoor) air, indoor air, and in some water sources (1)."
http://www.epa.gov/teach/chem_summ/BaP_summary.pdf
And we will be BBQing some meat today ... 
And some fruit and vegetables that have undergone a Botran wash and a few other things ...
http://www3.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_search/ppls/010163-00226...
What me worry ... 
[Edited on 8-1-2015 by wessongroup]
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chuckie
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Me too...Ribs....Roundup, GMO's Pesticides, Herbicides, Hormones, Fertilizers are facts of life...Add to that, not enough water, too much water, Hail
etc. and the AG equation becomes even more complex. Pressure is always on to produce more, keep costs down and do it to standards set by people who
don't do it for a living. All in all I think big AG does a pretty fair job of getting it done....And American AG better than anyone. Not perfectly,
and often not the way we would like to, but not bad....
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SFandH
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Naw, come on. People should have the option of avoiding toxic chemicals if they want to.
It may be a little late to make a difference for older people but what about if you had a newborn to feed. Wouldn't you want to know if the first
solid food out of those little jars contains Roundup? Wesson posted it's a known carcinogen and with the new Monsanto seeds farmers can apply it
directly to the crop. Scientific studies have shown it's showing up in the food. This is something new, not a "fact of life".
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chuckie
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It is now, isn't it...? A fact of life....You think its going to change back? Eat organic, you have that choice.....Exercise it....
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wessongroup
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Well we could always talk about the toxins in women's beauty products ... derived from animal rendering
And what ya gonna do with all of that waste stream ... if ya remove rendering plants from operation
It's much better now than it was back in the 60s and 70s ... comparatively speaking .. .
Some of the materials found and their levels were shocking ... to most at that time ...
A lot of feed stuffs "used" to get shipped to Japan, before Japan really got into raising Kobe Beef in the 80s and 90s
Cubers would ship boat loads of anything "green" with no sampling ... for chemical residue ... that changed, and growers started just burning "bean
straw" rather than "cube it" (then that got cut down through burn days, air pollution) ... It was, for a while a substitute for Alfalfa "cubes" for
feed going to Japan ..
Haven't a clue where Japan is getting their feed anymore, don't think they are "growing" it at home... space thing ya know .. hell they don't even
have enough room to store highly radio active waste
Just think when America and/or the United States has 3 billion people ... where ya going to "grow" the feed for animals ... .. not even talking about those other things needed .. just find some good "dirt" to grow in
We were growing our own stuff for a while, using the "Square Foot " gardening, but, old age and laziness took over ... The phone and home delivery's
are hard to beat 
Saw where Taco Bell will be hiring drivers ... WOW .. brings back the 50s and 60s ... Home delivery's of: Chicken, Pizza, Chinese .. et al .. those
were the days
Golly wonder if a Prius will be required of drivers
And speaking of AG Production and water ...
Overpumping of Central Valley groundwater creating a crisis, experts say
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-groundwater-20...
[Edited on 8-1-2015 by wessongroup]
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chuckie
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I believe a simple sign in all Grocery stores saying " Hey theres stuff in almost everything in here that's bad for you, so be aware" That would
save the consumer added cost of labeling every product..Kalifornia water?Most of the state never should have had water anyhow...some "Gimme" program
back when started all that....Our family farmed tomatoes, cotton, almonds near Chowchilla and lotsa rice Colusa and cattle south of Carmel...Since we
didn't have a lot of dumb kids, started getting out in the late 60's...By the mid 70's all gone..Couple Uncles, Clive and Walter went to New
Zealand...Some of the rest of us got eddicated and went into Techy stuff....The smart ones just spent the money...NOT in Kalifornia.....I am over 80
now and can just sit back and Kibbitz.....A real mess, we are in I agree....Ribs are good!
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Bajahowodd
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I'm reminded that I have a question. Since the vast majority of corn is GMO, and the vast majority of corn is used to make ethanol, with the shale oil
boom, why do we even need ethanol in our motor fuels, especially since it impedes efficiency?
Seems to me to be nothing but corporate welfare.
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chuckie
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Food for fuel is dumb....
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bledito
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ya should now talk about all the steroids in or meat and milk
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chuckie
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Already did....
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