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ReTire
Nomad
Posts: 129
Registered: 9-16-2018
Location: PNW
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We will see what everyone thinks when the price of fuel is $15-25 a gallon in 2021 dollars.
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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Or they'll tax you 10 cents per mile to drive your electric car to pay for roads etc. That's what CA is considering in lieu of the gas tax.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17639
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Quote: Originally posted by TMW  |
Or they'll tax you 10 cents per mile to drive your electric car to pay for roads etc. That's what CA is considering in lieu of the gas tax.
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gotta have some way to pay for roads, eh?
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5879
Registered: 7-18-2011
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As a guy who works in the gas station industry, I'd have to say this will kill my job as an Underground Storage Tank inspector in a few years....but
it's for the better of the planet so I won't complain....I gotta start thinking about evolving into another line of work or something on the
periphery. Guess selling my business in 15-20 years is no longer an option. HA HA.
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
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Mood: Inquisitive
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There is so much auto pollution produced by people running short errands within 10 miles of their home. Especially if it is surface streets.
My wife and I have outfitted our e-bikes with panniers. Big ones! We basically do all our food shopping, hardware store shopping, liquor store
shopping, medical/dental appts.; basically ANY errand that we can think of, we consider the bike first. Both in the Boise, ID area AND in San Carlos,
Sonora.
About the only thing we can't do is carry enough for a Costco run or carry a pizza home from Papa Murphy's (but they do make pizza racks for bikes!).
And we wont take it into Guaymas for a Home Depot or Walmart run. Just too dangerous on surface streets in larger Mexican cities.
My point is, if people REALLY started to consider what they can do with an e-bike, it could replace TONS (LITERALLY!) of pollution put out by IC
engines........... and they wouldn't have to be banned or forced into extinction. There will still be many transportation needs that an IC engine will
do best, for many years to come. Their pollution could be reduced to where it is as acceptable as power plants or interstate trucking/railroads, for
the capabilities they provide.
Plus, biking is SO MUCH MORE FUN AND RELAXING than driving a car. The Boise area allows bikes to "ignore" stop signs and stop lights, provided there
is no oncoming traffic. They are emphasizing bikes lanes EVERYWHERE. I am so behind these efforts to re-design our cities and suburbs to make them
bike friendly.
I really feel this e-bike movement could "save the planet" if more people would just give them a try. They are incredibly fun and good for the
environment.
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PaulW
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3035
Registered: 5-21-2013
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Hook, Very good
I have been a rider for many years and I found the more miles I rode on the bicycle the higher the risk. Turns out there are bad drivers and some with
attitudes and it was not long before I was hit. Hard to avoid other people doing their thing that causes you harm.
My solution was avoid places where cars and pickups congregate - like grocery stores and fast food places- etc. But the real solution is less miles
on the bike and careful choices of your route.
Enjoy your bikes.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17639
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: Originally posted by PaulW | Expect riots when the big V8s expire
Do you thing it will be liberals or conservatives that will participate in riots?
The die hards will reconstruct the dead old fashioned rigs until the petro fuel disappears. |
My father in law has a vcr and turntable. There will also be elderly luddites and quaint old cranks to keep IC engines going for a while
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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People don't seem to realize where how solar works, it requires petroleum products to make solar panels, cables, batteries, and batteries are among
the most toxic products we produce. Electricity has a storage and transfer problem, while the earth produces petroleum as a natural by product which
is a form of stored or sequestered energy. The earth is dependent on releasing sequestered carbon to fuel plant life that has a symbiotic relationship
with animals.
While toxic pollution and wasteful production processes are problematic, carbon dioxide by itself is not a pultant nor is petroleum, while solar
energy creates massive toxic waste and is inefficient.
Electric cars have huge batteries that fail in ten years producing expensive toxic waste. While, gas vehicles can last for much longer .
Worse, hybrid vehicles are over-engineered dual system heavy inefficient vehicles that create huge toxic waste.
Add on wind power which is extremely unreliable and damaging to the ecosystem and ambient environment.
Certainly people should have a personal choice, though mandating electric is simply virtue signal while adding costs, and transferring one source of
transit to another on the road to total restriction of mobility with surveillance and control.
I have worked on building electric cars and have some, they have thousands of electronic computer parts that often fail and are far more costly to
replace while also requiring precious metals all for some purpose outside of economy or ecology.
This electric vehicle "mandate" is a political play that will result in massive toxic waste, reduced mobility and exponential increase in cost.
[Edited on 1-30-2021 by gnukid]
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BajaTed
Senior Nomad
Posts: 859
Registered: 5-2-2010
Location: Bajamar
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Here is the story:
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/oil-and-petroleum-produc...
Millionaires will have boutique refineries for their IC car collections. They already have private race tracks. Find a one per center for a friend,
trickle down @ its best.
Kiss the ring as needed
Es Todo Bueno
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17639
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Lol 
Paul, tinkering with graphics, text and code on a computer is not building “building electric cars.”
You are delusional or liar to claim to be an engineer, machinist or mechanic or anyone involved in any way with designing or manufacturing cars...
Owning an electric car does not make you an expert in anything....
Assembling a radio shack kit model does not make you an expert in anything other than how to solder a $3 9v motor
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Goat
You continue to be misinformed not to mention delusional, my experience comes from working inside the top electric car team, while observing the broad
industry, anyone can look up the information or make a google search alert for electric vehicle costs, self-driving electric vehicle crashes, electric
vehicle automation, electric vehicle robotics and see the quagmire being created on lies.
The costs of an electric vehicle are astronomically higher and those costs are both subsidized by the individual and by the government which is in
turn paid by the people in taxes, the purchase costs are 40% higher than traditional costs that do not account for the actual costs.
The purpose for all this is for automation otherwise known as The Great Reset to reduce people's independence, mobility and ability to do their own
product transit while adding automation, self-driving vehicles for large scale product transportation like Amazon, while you are increasingly
restricted, controlled, monitored.
A typical modern electric car will last 6 years, have an accident every 11,000 miles and then is obsolete. and can not be fixed by you or anyone else.
It is so complex there are thousands of computers, each uniquely designed for the application, no spares exists, no replacements once it breaks, it's
over.
A battery is absolutely the holy grail of toxic waste and is not recyclable, not to mention is extremely high risk t be sitting next to such a high
power electric grid. The purpose of a battery is to store energy in the most inefficient manner available versus other options, oil, hydrogen,
nuclear, heat etc.
While solar and wind are fantastic they ultimately have a different complimentary role to petroleum to support the home and car. Majority of power
will always come from petroleum, coal and nuclear, then sun and wind, all of which are naturally produced.
Oil is part of a natural process, a cycle, of carbon sequestration, decomposition and output. We benefit from the this process and use oil to increase
our comfort and economy otherwise we would be living in freezing cold or too hot weather, unable to move.
Of course solar is dependent on the sun, duh! Many places don't have consistent sun, while in Baja we do, so Solar makes sense to power homes and
vehicles in Baja for short distance, golf carts, simplified electric carts etc. but not for transiting the peninsula.
So take a look at the earth, if everyone lived nearer the equator in areas without clouds solar would be a benefit, but many live throughout the north
and south for a variety of reasons where sun is often inaequate to maintain solar systems, so all that electricity is produced by coal and oil as are
the solar products and nearly all the products a modern person uses.
Are people aware that Telsas super chargers stations are coal or oil powered or how much petroleum products are required to make a Tesla or how much
toxic waste the battery creates or how many accidents and requests for assistance occur in electric vehicles versus traditional vehicles. Probably
not, because you have a political belief in virtue signaling nonsense and could not do the math to compare the costs and risks of typical modern
electric car versus a gas powered vehicle.
See you on the side of the road Goat virtue signaling.
[Edited on 1-30-2021 by gnukid]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17639
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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Paul,
Did the “top electric car team” fire your @ss because your are anti-electric car? Or did they fire you because you are a qanon lunatic?
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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Note that Goat has no substance, no data points, no actual experience but he loves to repeat memes.
Anyone, use a search engine and do a search on electric car safety risks, electric car crashes, electric car explosions, self driving car crashes.
Simply use google and create a search alert and see how many stories come in everyday pointing out the fraud behind electric car promotion.
While yesterday I took a drive to a remote beach in a 1965 and met a nice gentlemen named Mr Gastalum in a 1964 Ford 100 we chatted both are cars get
30 miles to gallon and are in perfect condition, that is ecology!
To be clear solar power is awesome for home and small golf carts or scooters for bikes. But you will never replace the gas powered vehicle for
individual transit over distance.
[Edited on 1-30-2021 by gnukid]
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9006
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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| Quote: Originally posted by PaulW | Hook, Very good
I have been a rider for many years and I found the more miles I rode on the bicycle the higher the risk. Turns out there are bad drivers and some with
attitudes and it was not long before I was hit. Hard to avoid other people doing their thing that causes you harm.
My solution was avoid places where cars and pickups congregate - like grocery stores and fast food places- etc. But the real solution is less miles
on the bike and careful choices of your route.
Enjoy your bikes. |
Well. it's obviously not for you.
But if everyone uses your solution of less miles on the bike..........then that means more miles in the car. Which exacerbates the situation you are
so trying to avoid.
Hey, I've been in CAR accidents that were the result of stupid drivers. What you gonna do? Sit in your house and order everything on line?
Not me.
I will continue to do my part to get more cars off suburban roads..........and enjoy the hell out of doing it!
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17639
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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You sound like the cranks that existed over a century ago who said autos would never replace horses.
Technology advances.
I am frankly amazed that when I started driving my cars were carbureted engines with not an inkling of computers, and now we are driving electric cars
with almost-reliable self-driving. I find it astounding.
When I started driving I could tinker with everything under the hood and fix most anything on my car, with a simple manual. Now when I open the hood
I don’t even want to know how to fix all those computerized gadgets that make my modern car tick.
Battery (or fuel cell) technology (or othervtechnology we can’t even imagine yet) will advance until zero emission vehicles will be autonomously
carrying us on long distance trips.
Paul, don’t be a Luddite. Cars have totally changed in last 30 years. 30 years from now, you won’t be able to find an IC engine in new cars.
The day I fly down baja on hwy 1 in a self-driving car will be fabulous. Imagine how relaxing the drive will be 
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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It's fun for curmudgeon house bound Nomad viejitos to turn global ecology into a personal vendetta against practical minded Baja adventurers who
actually Go Out.
Solar and electrical is awesome and allows for off grind living, unlimited daytime Air conditioning in the desert and near freezing beers in the
boiling heat, though, nothing will replace the economy and reliability of the gas motor, though certainly, electric scooters and bikes and carts are
great additions.
The idea of Zero Carbon Footprint, that electric doesn't use petroleum is misleading, solar/electrical use as much oil or more than pure gas powered
systems and it's more expensive and higher maintenance but can provide more luxury while being wasteful, and apparently makes some people feel good
too.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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By the way, my approach is to take what I learned about efficiency in electrical and apply to gas, we rebuild motors, taking time to improve flow and
tolerance and custom build ignition to improve performance, while I run a panel on the roof of the car and house for freezer and accessories. Let's
see where it goes, just don't fall for Zero Carbon Footprint false ideals, solar/electrical is among the most highest polluting systems of power.
[Edited on 1-31-2021 by gnukid]
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Goats are easily amazed ?
The Devil Goat states that he was amazed that vehicles back when he began driving were "Carbureted" and not
computer-controlled.
REALLY ?
Given the state of development in Fuel-Injection systems and (especially) computer technology, only a Goat would find it amazing.
To the extent that a Goat might think, anyway.
Granted, I am assuming that he didn't wait until middle-aged to begin driving, BUT ................... Quien Sabe ? Some people are
just slow.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8084
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: Originally posted by gnukid |
Electricity has a storage and transfer problem, while the earth produces petroleum as a natural by product which is a form of stored
or sequestered energy. The earth is dependent on releasing sequestered carbon to fuel plant life that has a symbiotic relationship with animals.
|
The earth doesn't produce petroleum. The sun produces it as well. Oil is just organic matter that was produced by the sun but not fully decomposed
into inorganic matter.
Plants existed on this earth a long time before CO2 releasing animals appeared on this planet. Over twice as long if I remember correctly. The truth
is that there is no symbiotic relationship between plants and animals. Plants us O2 in daylight hours during photosynthesis and release CO2 at night
during respiration. Plants are independent of animals but not the other way around. They produce both gasses they use. That's why they appeared on
this planet first and existed for a billion years on their own.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: Originally posted by Skipjack Joe | | Quote: Originally posted by gnukid |
Electricity has a storage and transfer problem, while the earth produces petroleum as a natural by product which is a form of stored
or sequestered energy. The earth is dependent on releasing sequestered carbon to fuel plant life that has a symbiotic relationship with animals.
|
The earth doesn't produce petroleum. The sun produces it as well. Oil is just organic matter that was produced by the sun but not fully decomposed
into inorganic matter.
Plants existed on this earth a long time before CO2 releasing animals appeared on this planet. Over twice as long if I remember correctly. The truth
is that there is no symbiotic relationship between plants and animals. Plants us O2 in daylight hours during photosynthesis and release CO2 at night
during respiration. Plants are independent of animals but not the other way around. They produce both gasses they use. That's why they appeared on
this planet first and existed for a billion years on their own. |
Interesting and partially true, though, ignores the impactful symbiotic relationship of plants and animals that vastly increases diversity. Petroleum
is an output of earth, certainly the earth is largely dependent on the Sun for energy. The Sun is 1.3 millions larger than the earth and is it's
greatest source of test and energy.
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