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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64848
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Is lightning human-caused too? Seriously, you need to use more comon sense and less government produced 'fact sheets'.
Of course, as fast as your sources are telling you the sea level is rising, you can just let that put out the fires, right?
 
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mtgoat666
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Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Dk,
Not entirely sure what you are bloviating about, but The big Cali fires in recent years have been caused by man. Power lines failing on windy days,
arsonists, etc. San Diego’s big cedar fire was lit by a lost hunter, oops 
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64848
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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I was having a little fun with you surabi, because you ruled out the huge single natural cause of wild fires... Even this lefty, pro-climate change
California state paper tells us that lightning makes up a lot more than less than 15% you say... (85% human caused) .
You question the math? So do I:
Simple math says 100-85=15. How can you get 40% lightning caused out of your remaining 15%?
https://calmatters.org/environment/2021/09/california-fires-...
"Lightning plays an outsized role in wildfires: More than 40% of wildfires in the West, largely in places other than California, were caused
by lightning, and those fires accounted for more than 70% of the acreage burned between 1992 and 2015, according to the U.S. Forest Service.
“Lightning is so dangerous, usually it stays pretty much on the east side of the state, but last year it was all over the place, including the Coast
Range,” said David Carle, whose book, Introduction to Fire in California, is a primer on the subject. “I think we have learned that dry lightning
storms are a real problem.”
The strangeness of the 2020 lightning-sparked fires — striking in coastal ranges unaccustomed to electrical storms — was underscored by the
absence of rain, meaning that powerful natural energy hit the ground precisely where overgrown, dry vegetation waited, with no rain to quench the
sparks. "
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JZ
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Posts: 10541
Registered: 10-3-2003
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Is climate changing?
Answer: Vast major of ppl say yes.
How much is due to man?
Answer: There is no consensus.
Even if man made events are causing climate change, can the US do anything about it without China, India, and Russia doing the same?
Answer: Absolutely not.
Do certain people campaign and raise money on the climate change issue and also use it in an attempt to gain more power?
Answer: Yes, for sure.
Climate change is just a political play. Any intelligent and honest person will admit that.
[Edited on 10-23-2022 by JZ]
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
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Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
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L,
No, the subject is according to experts wildfires created twice the excess pollution in one year than was eliminated in over a decade at great cost!
That means spending money and effort to reduce the number and size of wildfires is the most effective way to fight climate change. I’m just pointing
out that doing that isn’t very high on the list of government priorities!
[Edited on 10-23-2022 by RFClark]
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RFClark
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L,
I’m an Engineering sort of person. Engineers generally try to solve problems. Fires require a fuel source and an ignition source. Remove either and
no fire. That’s not rocket science! It also isn’t how it’s done in California!
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JDCanuck
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Posts: 1669
Registered: 2-22-2020
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While in British Columbia 60% of wildfires are caused by lightning, in California and the US, the vast majority(nearly 85%) are human caused. I think
population densities are behind why global and local stats vary so widely.
Removing or reducing the fuel as RFClark states would help in all cases, and this is behind the arguments for block clearcuts in logging and lets not
forget the increased use of controlled burns to enhance species variation.
There is no one simple solution it seems.
[Edited on 10-23-2022 by JDCanuck]
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JDCanuck
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Posts: 1669
Registered: 2-22-2020
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Lencho: I've heard a lot of talk on how past reforesting practices of replanting high value trees only played a major role in the beetle infestations
that led to much wider spreads of fires in BC. following our massive pine beetle kills.
Now I hear they have changed their focus and are enhancing controlled burns and also doing far more mixed species replanting...whats your take on
that?
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pauldavidmena
Super Nomad
Posts: 1715
Registered: 5-23-2013
Location: Centerville, MA, USA
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Where I live (Cape Cod) you don't have to look too far to see that sea level is rising. My workplace, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, has been studying climate change for over 50 years, and has authored numerous studies that are freely
available to the public. According to this article in the Cape Cod Times, they are also collaborating with 2 other regional marine science organizations to provide local businesses
with solutions to both rising seas and violent weather.
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4918
Registered: 5-6-2016
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | I was having a little fun with you surabi, because you ruled out the huge single natural cause of wild fires... Even this lefty, pro-climate change
California state paper tells us that lightning makes up a lot more than less than 15% you say... (85% human caused) .
You question the math? So do I:
Simple math says 100-85=15. How can you get 40% lightning caused out of your remaining 15%?
https://calmatters.org/environment/2021/09/california-fires-...
"Lightning plays an outsized role in wildfires: More than 40% of wildfires in the West, largely in places other than California, were caused
by lightning, and those fires accounted for more than 70% of the acreage burned between 1992 and 2015, according to the U.S. Forest Service.
“Lightning is so dangerous, usually it stays pretty much on the east side of the state, but last year it was all over the place, including the Coast
Range,” said David Carle, whose book, Introduction to Fire in California, is a primer on the subject. “I think we have learned that dry lightning
storms are a real problem.”
The strangeness of the 2020 lightning-sparked fires — striking in coastal ranges unaccustomed to electrical storms — was underscored by the
absence of rain, meaning that powerful natural energy hit the ground precisely where overgrown, dry vegetation waited, with no rain to quench the
sparks. " |
Again, your reading comprehension is poor. The statistic I quoted was not limited to California or the western US. Believe it or not, that is a very
small part of the world and climate change is a global problem.
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
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Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
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S,
Right Climate Change is Global and this warming cycle has been in process for more than 12K years. California and even the US are a very small part of
that global picture.
That’s why anyone running for or in office who promises to solve the problem by taking away your gas range and raising the cost of energy is lying
to you or just ignorant on the subject.
[Edited on 10-23-2022 by RFClark]
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pauldavidmena
Super Nomad
Posts: 1715
Registered: 5-23-2013
Location: Centerville, MA, USA
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| Quote: Originally posted by lencho |
Oh, my: You spend your time in a virtual nest of evil scientists conspiring to dupe us innocents into believing their mind-control
global warming theories.
I hope you've referred them to Baja Nomad as a source of True Knowledge ™. |
Interestingly enough, I'm not a scientist or researcher, but rather part of the IT department that is responsible for getting data to scientists
throughout the world. I suppose that might make me even more evil!
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
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Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
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Personally I use one of these. It collapses
This one is good for sub-millimeter wave lengths better with the added wires!
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
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Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
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S,
Of course not it’s religious doctrine. Doesn’t need to be explained just believed.
What will actually slow down 12,000 years of climate change is actually getting people all over the globe to quit burning stuff. If you can’t get
China and India on board which you can’t, there’s not much that can be accomplished until you can.
Drive by the west side of the Salton Sea. There are water marks 30+ feet up the sides of the cliffs. That’s how high the ocean was while humans were
chipping tools out of stone. The oceans have risen over 300 feet without any human help.
There is a world class war going on in case you missed it. People are dying daily, many more people may die of starvation soon because of it.
To all of these people staying alive today is more important than the possibility the ocean will rise faster some years in the future.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18376
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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With less than 5% of the world's population, the U.S. consumes almost 17% of the world's energy
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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RFClark
Super Nomad
Posts: 2462
Registered: 8-27-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: Delighted with 2024 and looking forward to 2025
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Goat,
And others consume the remaining 83%. Why do they get a pass while we’re asked to do the heavy lifting?
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surabi
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4918
Registered: 5-6-2016
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RF Clark- if you can't understand why people who consume 3 times more than people in other parts of the world should be leaders in this, nothing can
be explained to you.
Do you think China is pumping out pollution to make goods for the Chinese? Stop buying chit made in China. They'll start dealing with their emissions
when everyone starts boycotting everything made in China.
And saying you shouldn't do your part because someone else isn't doing theirs is like saying your neighbor's yard is full of garbage and dog poop, so
you might as well let your yard be like that, too.
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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We also produce a heck of a lot more than any other country. It takes energy to produce things.
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JDCanuck
Super Nomad
Posts: 1669
Registered: 2-22-2020
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Trends in energy consumption per capita:
Total U.S. energy consumption has increased, but energy consumption per capita has decreased. While total energy has increased overall in
commercial,residential, and transportation since 1980, it has decreased significantly in industrial due to efficiency improvements.
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/
While total annual U.S. energy consumption has trended upward over time and the U.S. population has increased, the amount of energy consumption per
capita (per person) peaked in the late 1970s. Annual per capita energy consumption was relatively flat from the late-1980s through 2000, and generally
decreased each year since then.
Factors contributing to lower U.S. per capita energy consumption since the 1980s include:
Increases in efficiency of appliances, electrical equipment, and building insulation largely resulting from the establishment of energy efficiency
standards and improved building energy codes
Increases in the average fuel efficiency of vehicles resulting from the establishment of Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards
Availability of financial incentives for energy efficiency investments
Increases in utility-scale electricity generation with higher efficiency natural gas-fired combined-cycle and combined-heat-and-power generators
Reduction in the energy intensive production of metals and other manufacturing
[Edited on 10-24-2022 by JDCanuck]
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John Harper
Super Nomad
Posts: 2289
Registered: 3-9-2017
Location: SoCal
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| Quote: Originally posted by JDCanuck |
Factors contributing to lower U.S. per capita energy consumption since the 1980s include:
Increases in efficiency of appliances, electrical equipment, and building insulation largely resulting from the establishment of energy efficiency
standards and improved building energy codes.
Uh oh, Government Regulations!
Increases in the average fuel efficiency of vehicles resulting from the establishment of Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards
Uh oh, more Government Regulations!
Availability of financial incentives for energy efficiency investments
Uh oh, Government picking "winners and losers."
Increases in utility-scale electricity generation with higher efficiency natural gas-fired combined-cycle and combined-heat-and-power generators
Uh oh, even more Government Regulations!
Reduction in the energy intensive production of metals and other manufacturing
Offshoring heaving industry by corporations? |
Well, it looks like the loathsome and despised "guvmit" might have a role to play in this after all.
John
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