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Lee
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Posts: 3495
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
I see municipal, state and federal workers drive by the same burnt out streetlight or stoplight or driving over the same pothole without reporting or
fixing it......Until the residents invest, nothing will change. |
Often wonder about these conditions and between all the paid workers, and community people, how or why they choose to live in squalor, relatively
speaking. Like, do they have standards, and are they ''lower,'' or are gringoes judging by NOB standards.
Or, driving behind a MX car and seeing a shopping bag full of garbage come flying out the passenger window.
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DianaT
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Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by bill erhardt
........ Every time a gringo antes up on mordida it perpetuates the game. |
Sometimes, well, it is just easier like being stopped on a holiday weekend miles down the road, when one would have to drive back to Ensenada and stay
there over the weekend. Does that make it right? I don't think so, nor does it necessarily make it wrong. It is part of the system, I fear.
Paying mordida is not just for the gringos. Over the years we have known and seen many locals pay mordida. Once on the mainland we hired a taxi
driver to be a tour guide for a day and during that day, he paid mordida three different times. He grumbled, but said it was not worth taking time
away from his business to fight it.
Tecate? Well, we will continue to pass through there and our dogs will be with us --- I guess since we don't have a truck, we will need to tie the
dogs on the roof rack. 
[Edited on 11-28-2012 by DianaT] |
Asking for (extortion), or paying (a bribe) mordita is a crime in Mexico. Would you offer to pay a bribe in the US????? I think not. Call their bluff
if you are right, tell them to write a ticket and you will pay officially if you are wrong.
Justify it however you want, everyone who pays mordita is contributing to the problem....yeah, look in the mirror, that's you.
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Confirmed--- looked in the mirror, and yup, I have paid mordida at times. Do I feel the least bit of trouble over having done so, no, not at all,
except when we got stung when it was not necessary and we knew better.
Just a few examples. We even helped our taxi driver/ guide out with the modida he paid. We also paid mordida to expedite the importation of our
vehicle in Honduras --- also illegal there, but it is the way it is. We paid mordida in Guatemala to get our passports back and our work papers so we
could leave the country on vacation--- also illegal there. We paid mordida to a customs official at the border of Belize to keep our Guatemala car
papers in his desk so we could take a quick trip into Belize. We paid mordida to a Honduran customs official to get our dog out of the airport.
Does that make paying mordida right, moral or anything else? No --- but sometimes it is a way of life in some places for everyone. IMHO, it is
not the fault of gringos in any of the other countries. It is a rather entrenched part of their systems for better or worse.
In the US, would I offer an official a bribe? No, bribery is done on a very large scale in our country and called by different names.
[Edited on 11-28-2012 by DianaT]
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Confirmed--- looked in the mirror, and yup, I have paid mordida at times. Do I feel the least bit of trouble over having done so, no, not at all,
except when we got stung when it was not necessary and we knew better.
Just a few examples. We even helped our taxi driver/ guide out with the modida he paid. We also paid mordida to expedite the importation of our
vehicle in Honduras --- also illegal there, but it is the way it is. We paid mordida in Guatemala to get our passports back and our work papers so we
could leave the country on vacation--- also illegal there. We paid mordida to a customs official at the border of Belize to keep our Guatemala car
papers in his desk so we could take a quick trip into Belize. We paid mordida to a Honduran customs official to get our dog out of the airport.
Does that make paying mordida right, moral or anything else? No --- but sometimes it is a way of life in some places for everyone. IMHO, it is
not the fault of gringos in any of the other countries. It is a rather entrenched part of their systems for better or worse.
In the US, would I offer an official a bribe? No, bribery is done on a very large scale in our country and called by different names.
[Edited on 11-28-2012 by DianaT] |
Justifications or excuses............
Why is it OK to break the law in a foreign country.....and don't tell me "it's the custom", or "that's the way it is"
As long as you condone the practice and participate in it you are the problem
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DianaT
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Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Confirmed--- looked in the mirror, and yup, I have paid mordida at times. Do I feel the least bit of trouble over having done so, no, not at all,
except when we got stung when it was not necessary and we knew better.
Just a few examples. We even helped our taxi driver/ guide out with the modida he paid. We also paid mordida to expedite the importation of our
vehicle in Honduras --- also illegal there, but it is the way it is. We paid mordida in Guatemala to get our passports back and our work papers so we
could leave the country on vacation--- also illegal there. We paid mordida to a customs official at the border of Belize to keep our Guatemala car
papers in his desk so we could take a quick trip into Belize. We paid mordida to a Honduran customs official to get our dog out of the airport.
Does that make paying mordida right, moral or anything else? No --- but sometimes it is a way of life in some places for everyone. IMHO, it is
not the fault of gringos in any of the other countries. It is a rather entrenched part of their systems for better or worse.
In the US, would I offer an official a bribe? No, bribery is done on a very large scale in our country and called by different names.
[Edited on 11-28-2012 by DianaT] |
Justifications or excuses............
Why is it OK to break the law in a foreign country.....and don't tell me "it's the custom", or "that's the way it is"
As long as you condone the practice and participate in it you are the problem |
It has been our choice, especially when we lived in Central America. Had we not participated in the system as it is, we would have lost our dog, our
truck might still be in Tegus waiting to be imported, we might still be stuck in Guatemala, etc. It is the way it is. Our other choice would have
been to not live and work there and that was an option.
Yes, the laws are on the book and they are ignored and not enforced. The locals see it as a way for the officials to increase their income. Don't
forget, there are many old laws in the US that are still in the books but have not been followed for a very long time. Yes, those laws are of a
different nature, but they are still laws.
So judge if you want to, that is OK --- no problem. Time to enjoy this beautiful foggy weather.
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lizard lips
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Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
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I just make it really easy and NEVER go to Tecate. I was involved in an accident there about 7 years ago where a drunk guy hit me and they put him in
Jail and I was never compensated for damages. The police were nice but thats besides the point. As much as I have heard about the police there I just
have no desire to travel through there again. As far as Daivd E's satement about no seatbelt law--- He's wrong. There is a seatbelt law for not only
the driver but all passengers.
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MsTerieus
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Posts: 462
Registered: 6-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda, Ensenada, Baja California
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
soooo, not open for rebuttal or discussion because it wasnt in the first person? is that the deal? |
I don't think so. For me Dennis' post slapped me in the face--- in a positive way. I so well know what it is like to post about a not so positive
experience somewhere in Baja and have certain other people who were NOT there post about how I must be wrong because they have had nothing but
positive experiences in the same places --- it has happened to the point of a post being called fanciful, a lie and our fault.
This post and Diana's others on this subject (as well as Dennis' "cynical one") were, I thought, very insightful and well put. When I read a thread
that starts with a report of an unfortunate experience, and it is followed by posts saying, in essence, "Well, I never had a bad experience there,"
without some acknowledgement of the possible validity of the initial post, I usually take the latter as a challenge or disparagement of the initial
post.
[Edited on 11-28-2012 by MsTerieus] |
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MsTerieus
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Posts: 462
Registered: 6-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda, Ensenada, Baja California
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Many towns have extremely strict laws about the display of a machete or a knife. They should be kept hidden. |
Ha ha ha ha! They should be "kept hidden"? Do the laws allow one to possess them, as long as they are concealed? How about, "they should be left at
home"?!
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Lizard lips, that's fact anywhere south of the US border all the way to Tierra del Fuego. Look at a ley de codigos del estado transito book which is
based on the DF template and you will see there is absolutely no law for anyone other than a driver of a motor vehicle. It involves actually reading
the book.
Why do cops pick on gringos? First of all they have money. Second of all the cops can take it all the way to the bank that 99.99% will whimper, fork
over the loot and then hightail it out of there with their tail between their legs. Never reported, no complaints, just adios conejo!
It is a gran delito for a cop to not reveal his true name, and badge number when asked to do so. It is a federal extortion rap for a cop to demand
money and charges piled atop charges to force someone to an ATM to extract money. Do you think Mexicans are stupid when it comes to understanding what
is happening? The cops absolutely positively rely on the certainty that a gringo will not act to identify the cop, and his patrol car, the time and
place, and then go file a complaint. They live and breathe the certainty. They'd bet their life and freedom on it.
Sometime when the opportunity presents itself, buy a transito a coke and have a look (with him) at his thick book of laws. Read the words yourself.
The same goes for Aduana. Go look a the HUGE poster bolted to the concrete wall inside the oficina. It lists all the prohibited items. Why is this
such an obstacle; actually learning and separating fact from fiction?
What clued me into this? Having a four hour conversation with Ismael Bordeja, so many decades ago while sitting on the dock in Sta Rosalia waiting for
the transbordador.
the first thing he told me to do is always inform whomever the person I wished to query that it is "la costumbre" for gringos to ask ten thousand
questions. Mexicans do not ask a lot of questions. The other intense study time came in the shade of a parota tree near Zihuatanejo, with commandante
Joaquin Baez, of the Petlatlán office of the SSP. Four hours of study and reading the big book with dark blue cover. I had four watermelon from my
garden and he and his men carved up three and enjoyed it. They all were curious as to why I was so curious. Baez, turned out to be extremely strict,
straight-laced and amiable as hell.
One of the points I learned by reading the words is that any law enforcement figure in Mexico can legally ask to see proof of compliance with federal
immigration law. This means FMM, residency or in my case inmigrado "credencial". Comandante Baez amplified the legality of this specific law. It is
fact in all 31 states and in DF.
But the anti-mordida laws are draconian. Cops will be fired and possibly even imprisoned for extortion. This is serious stuff these days. But
complaints MUST BE FILED. The state tourist office in Tecate is an excellent place to start. Then follow up with a Green Angel report. The feds will
contact the state and you do know what tends to roll downhill.
Instead of whimpering, DO SOMETHING! Get a name, badge number, note the time, the street, and if you are a devious son of a b-tch like me, copy down
the serial number of a 200 peso note in your wallet. Don't make it a 500. too obvious. A couple of 100's would be better yet. Report that to the
tourism office. The cop gets called in, he opens his wallet and presto DETENER!
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
..... Tecate? Well, we will continue to pass through there and our dogs will be with us --- I guess since we don't have a truck, we will need to
tie the dogs on the roof rack.
[Edited on 11-28-2012 by DianaT] |
Diana,
I think that is a great idea. Some great minds have done that and set a humane and caring example to follow....
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/705588c8e6/mitt-romney-busted-for-dog-on-car-roof
Don't believe everything you think....
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
But the anti-mordida laws are draconian. Cops will be fired and possibly even imprisoned for extortion. This is serious stuff these days. But
complaints MUST BE FILED. The state tourist office in Tecate is an excellent place to start. Then follow up with a Green Angel report. The feds will
contact the state and you do know what tends to roll downhill.
Instead of whimpering, DO SOMETHING! Get a name, badge number, note the time, the street........... |
David, most people here would rather complain than take the time to report the problem
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
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Nothing wrong with the OP's post, whether it is
1st, 2nd, or 3rd
hand, it was just passing along some info.
As for Perros, there was a post months back
a driver was stopped in Mexicali going thur the
East Crossing, dog in the back seat, cop said
dog had to be in a seatbelt
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willardguy
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on the seat belt deal, this is from that other baja forum.
Now for the real law. Every municipality in Baja California, and most of Mexico, requires the driver and passengers to use seat belts.
Here is the Ensenada Municipal Traffic Law:
ARTÍCULO 113.- Todo conductor que circule un vehículo en las vías públicas de este Municipio, deberá ponerse el cinturón de seguridad, así como sus
acompañantes y tratándose de menores de dos años, deberá usar silla de seguridad vehicular para infantes.
http://www.bajacalifornia.gob.mx/portal/...senada.pdf
ARTICLE 113 - All drivers of vehicles traveling on the public roads of this Municipality must put on the safety belt, as well as others who are in the
vehicle, and in the case of minors under two years of age, they must use an infant car security seat.
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
Often wonder about these conditions and between all the paid workers, and community people, how or why they choose to live in squalor, relatively
speaking. Like, do they have standards, and are they ''lower,'' or are gringoes judging by NOB standards.
Or, driving behind a MX car and seeing a shopping bag full of garbage come flying out the passenger window. |
I think "most" gringos judge by NOB standards..........and for living is squalor, It's interesting the number of satellite TV antenna dishes,
LED/Plasma flat screen TV's, Internet and I-phones the people living in "squalor" have ........
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4375
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by willardguy
on the seat belt deal, this is from that other baja forum.
Now for the real law. Every municipality in Baja California, and most of Mexico, requires the driver and passengers to use seat belts.
Here is the Ensenada Municipal Traffic Law:
ARTÍCULO 113.- Todo conductor que circule un vehículo en las vías públicas de este Municipio, deberá ponerse el cinturón de seguridad, así como sus
acompañantes y tratándose de menores de dos años, deberá usar silla de seguridad vehicular para infantes.
http://www.bajacalifornia.gob.mx/portal/...senada.pdf
ARTICLE 113 - All drivers of vehicles traveling on the public roads of this Municipality must put on the safety belt, as well as others who are in the
vehicle, and in the case of minors under two years of age, they must use an infant car security seat. |
Yep, surprised David E has not noticed the police checking for seat belts. Every so often, they will set up a check point and ticket those not
wearing seat belts....but not very often.
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ElCap
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Posts: 281
Registered: 1-22-2010
Location: Montara CA, or San Ignacio BCS
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I crossed at Tecate on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, it was exactly a 2-hr wait - we got there about noon. There were two lanes slowly crawling up
the hill, then we split into four open lanes at the turn into border booths. Passport checks took less than a minute (3 passengers), and not a
question asked by agent. Agent wasn't exactly pleasant, but I've seen much worse, and I was happy to get through. I have no idea why the wait was so
long to get to the booth. The agents could care less how long the lines are, in my opinion.
Regards the initial post here, I agree that it means more to me if it is written in the first person, rather than passed on second-hand info. Every
person who succumbs to the mordida shakedown just further perpetuates the problem here. I understand some folks are intimidated, but why would
someone pay a fine for something they didn't even do (didn't they say they were wearing the seatbelt?).
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monoloco
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Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Instead of whimpering, DO SOMETHING! Get a name, badge number, note the time, the street, and if you are a devious son of a b-tch like me, copy down
the serial number of a 200 peso note in your wallet. Don't make it a 500. too obvious. A couple of 100's would be better yet. Report that to the
tourism office. The cop gets called in, he opens his wallet and presto DETENER! |
Exactly, I don't have much
sympathy for people who open their wallet and participate in a crime, then whine about it on the internet. If you pay a bribe, it's because you think
that it's more expedient than going to the station, nobody held a gun to your head, accept responsibility for being lazy.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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seatbelts !!
was checked for sea belts a few times when I was youger and now I just wear them..no shirt, no shoes, just swimming shorts..but I got the seat belt
on..thinking about getting one for my famous co-pilot..have heard servel cops call them "ZIPPERS" the only time I ever paid mordida was the day after
marti gra in La paz from a cop shipped over from the mainlaid who diidnt know about the gringo with dog wearing shades...It is a infraction for some
one (baby/dog) in your arm hanging out the widow (brazo) most of the reg cops knew me as I was in the parade with my van/boat/dog 1 yr for club
cruceros....and at the time is was for me the best thing to do as the jails and cop shop and judges were booked !!!! and Moma marta didnt answer the
radio !! LOL K&T
[Edited on 11-28-2012 by captkw]
[Edited on 11-28-2012 by captkw]
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MsTerieus
Nomad
Posts: 462
Registered: 6-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda, Ensenada, Baja California
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
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Exactly, I don't have much sympathy for people who open their wallet and participate in a crime, then
whine about it on the internet. If you pay a bribe, it's because you think that it's more expedient than going to the station, nobody held a gun to
your head, accept responsibility for being lazy. |
I feel the same. You'll only get sympathy from ME if you refuse to pay the bribe, take the time and trouble to "go to the station," if that what it
takes, and whine about THAT on the internet. 
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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going to the station !!
Trust me on this one !! you DO not want to go to the station in La Paz the last day of marti gra....No way In HE__ !!!
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
Lizard lips, that's fact anywhere south of the US border all the way to Tierra del Fuego. Look at a ley de codigos del estado transito book which is
based on the DF template and you will see there is absolutely no law for anyone other than a driver of a motor vehicle. It involves actually reading
the book.
So I guess the Baja vehicle code does not apply. I need to buy one of those books the next time I'm pulled over for having a passenger in my car not
wearing one, open it to the correct page, and show it to the officer?
I'm not going to get into a peeing contest with you Dave but when you give incorrect information especially when it comes to telling an official that
the law does not apply and is not in effect and the officer must read the D.F. Template what do you think he will do? Did you read the other posts
Dave where the law is written? You have to remember that most people that read this forum are tourists and supplying information that is incorrect may
get them in trouble.
I'm glad you had enough time to read the entire book...... |
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